9.0 General Discussion

[Raxxus]

I'm not arguing that. I said, only giving keys largely to streamers is troubling and creates resentment. I'm not trying to say that streamers can't be effective advertisement. Try reading bro.

even if its not very effective, it's free.

And like I said, the people who resent the streamers are far outweighed by the people who enjoy them.

[Sondrelk]

"Patches should not be expansions."

Why? That's literally what sets apart WoW from other mmos like FFXIV. Adding a new zone gives alot more content than 4 bosses and a bit of story. Why would anyone want that to be gone?

Yeah that complaint was especially odd. I mean, is he arguing that patches should just have less stuff in them? Would love to hear his rationalization on that one.

[Cyranis]

even if its not very effective, it's free.

And like I said, the people who resent the streamers are far outweighed by the people who enjoy them.

The people who resent the streamers are already captured paying customers. Not the people you want to piss off.

[Raxxus]

The people who resent the streamers are already captured paying customers. Not the people you want to piss off.

I've been playing wow for 15 years, and I'm certainly not upset they give access to streamers first. I understand why they do it.

Maybe me and my friends are the only ones who don't resent streamers because they have access to a test before we do, but I highly doubt it.

It sounds like you resent streamers because they have access before you do and your applying that pov to everyone. It's really not the case.

[Kaesebrezen]

Even if all this was true, do you actually believe everyone that is on twitch is aware of Shadowlands? If nothing else, it's completely free exposure for their product.

A streamer potentially reaching 1000s of customers and informing them of their product > a fat kid in his basement by himself every time.

On the 7th you have Valorant Beta, on the 9th the new Hearthstone expansion, and on the 10th FF7 Remake. Next week is about as bad as it can get for Shadowland alpha streams in terms of advertisement effect.

I'd argue streams are more valuable as stream of feedback then it is for advertisement. Advertisement of a very unfinished product most likely missing all major endgame features won't do much.

[Cyranis]

I've been playing wow for 15 years, and I'm certainly not upset they give access to streamers first. I understand why they do it.

Maybe me and my friends are the only ones who don't resent streamers because they have access to a test before we do, but I highly doubt it.

It sounds like you resent streamers because they have access before you do and your applying that pov to everyone. It's really not the case.

So you don't. But you think I do, and your evidence is that you don't. Nice logic, lmao

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah that complaint was especially odd. I mean, is he arguing that patches should just have less stuff in them? Would love to hear his rationalization on that one.

Like I said.... he's acting like an idiot if he believes that one.

[Raxxus]

So you don't. But you think I do, and your evidence is that you don't. Nice logic, lmao

Clearly you do, otherwise why would you continue to bring it up?

[Sondrelk]

Like I said.... he's acting like an idiot if he believes that one.

I definitely got the impression that most of the things on tha tlist were not well thought out, and instead just parroting common complaints to teh current game.
As i mentioned above, most of the complaints there are either vacuous, like wanting specs to flow better, which means nothing on its own. Or extremely surface level problems, like wanting Master loot instead of a more robust Personal loot, or wanting the bandaid fix of faster reputation on alts instead of simply wanting Blizzard to stop putting power items or unique transmogs behind them.

[Raxxus]

On the 7th you have Valorant Beta, on the 9th the new Hearthstone expansion, and on the 10th FF7 Remake. Next week is about as bad as it can get for Shadowland alpha streams in terms of advertisement effect.

I'd argue streams are more valuable as stream of feedback then it is for advertisement. Advertisement of a very unfinished product most likely missing all major endgame features won't do much.

That makes sense as well.

Even if it does very little in the advertisement department, it doesn't cost them a penny either way.

[Nagawithlegs]

On the 7th you have Valorant Beta, on the 9th the new Hearthstone expansion, and on the 10th FF7 Remake. Next week is about as bad as it can get for Shadowland alpha streams in terms of advertisement effect.

I'd argue streams are more valuable as stream of feedback then it is for advertisement. Advertisement of a very unfinished product most likely missing all major endgame features won't do much.

But Blizzard doesn't drop big news bombs when nothing's going on, they usually do it when other competitors are doing things.

Blizzard dropping Alpha around FF7R is exactly what they'd do.

[Cyranis]

Clearly you do, otherwise why would you continue to bring it up?

I think it's an important point. I don't need to have personal stake involved. Are you saying that you are a selfish manchild, and can't see how that's possible?

[Raxxus]

I think it's an important point. I don't need to have personal stake involved. Are you saying that you are a selfish manchild, and can't see how that's possible?

No clearly I said the people who resent streamers for being in alpha before them are a vocal minority.

[Cyranis]

No clearly I said the people who resent streamers for being in alpha before them are a vocal minority.

Sort of like people who post on MMO champion are a minority of those that post on the wow forums, who are, in turn, a vocal minority of wow players. Yet .. here you are.

[Raxxus]

Sort of like people who post on MMO champion are a minority of those that post on the wow forums, who are, in turn, a vocal minority of wow players. Yet .. here you are.

I was just pointing out why Blizzard would prioritize streamers over regular people. If that's right or wrong, I'm not arguing that either. Simply stating why they do it.

[Cyranis]

I was just pointing out why Blizzard would prioritize streamers over regular people. If that's right or wrong, I'm not arguing that either. Simply stating why they do it.

Well good job captain obvious, what on earth would us plebs do without your helpful psa's.

[Yarathir]

Like I said.... he's acting like an idiot if he believes that one.

I mean, we all want the money we put into an expansion to be worth less, of course.

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I just wish we had fully 3d armor.

I'd be happy if they gave us more sets with 3D coverage on the level of Forsaken Mail Warfront armor.
But also I'd like them to experiment more with chests. They seem to be doing that with the Necrolord plate set to some extent.

[Raxxus]

I mean, we all want the money we put into an expansion to be worth less, of course.

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I'd be happy if they gave us more sets with 3D coverage on the level of Forsaken Mail Warfront armor.
But also I'd like them to experiment more with chests. They seem to be doing that with the Necrolord plate set to some extent.

I liked how realistic that armor looked vs having huge volcanos on your shoulders etc.

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Well good job captain obvious, what on earth would us plebs do without your helpful psa's.

Thanks! if you need anymore help, let me know

[FlubberPuddy]

Snip

It's a very complex issue. While I understand decisions are not made in a vacuum, it is also weird that Blizzard acknowledges they have an immensely varied audience of players within WoW yet still implement "one-size-fits-all" design decisions.

An example that can have multiple avenues to fit more audience groups is gear acquisition from raids. Keep the item drops, but then give tokens as well for each boss killed, just like FFXIV. This way people still can get excited about item drops and not be super frustrated if they don't get what they want during that weekly lockout. As they will still be working towards an item eventually.

Currently where you don't get your item and get shit AP amount or shit level gold feels way worse, and getting an item drop brings more relief "finally done with this" than excitement imo.

My proof that they understand this is because in SL we're going to get slightly more deterministic loot from things like M+. Hopefully they do it for raids as well. There's no reason the game cannot implement multiple avenues for each dedicated end-game content area (raids/m+/pvp).

Only reason it is the way it is now isn't simply because of player complaints in the past, but also that Blizzard wants us to play the game in specific ways for specific content. That does not work when it's already been acknowledged just how varied their audience is.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Like I said.... he's acting like an idiot if he believes that one.

That's sort of his shtick.

The rest on the manifesto are not very original thoughts, and we already know that Pathfinder is the compromise between having flying, or not having it at all. I'd gladly accept pvp vendors though.