1. #41461
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    In the same urn as Vol'Jin
    Posts
    3,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    So... starting a game with tons of stuff to go through and discover, is bad?
    It can be, actually. I don't know how many MMOs you've played, but it absolutely can be extremely off-putting. I've been a "new player" a very large number of times over the last two decades, in tons of MMOs, and I'm not generally a "jaded" person about MMOs, and indeed I'm mostly enjoying 8.3.

    But for a new to hit max level and be slammed with a massive avalanche of bizarre, poorly-explained stuff that they're supposed to do, some of which is largely unnecessary, some of which will hugely upgrade their character (with no clear signposting as to which is which), and a lot of which just isn't described at all, just vaguely alluded to by other players, is problematic.

    SL will fix this in the sense that it will reset the level cap, and a new player coming on board at the beginning of an expansion in WoW is pretty much always happy, because due to the way WoW works, they're not really much worse-off than anyone else. By the time 9.3 rolls around, though, it's quite likely new players will be in a similar situation to now, where there's just a ton of confusing, poorly-explained content, again with little/no guidance as to even a sensible path through it (let alone an optimal or efficient one), which makes it extremely difficult to get started.

    I have no doubt that the buff has attracted a ton of new players, or players lapsed so long they might as well be new. They'll enjoy leveling, for sure, it'll make sense. When they hit 120 is the issue. Having too much content isn't really a problem, but it is a problem if it's all thrown at the player in a confusing and hard-to-follow way as it is in WoW (and has been in many other MMOs). I know a lot of people who have played WoW to level cap, enjoyed it the whole time, then quit shortly after level cap, because they just had no idea what was going on and what they could find to do, wasn't fun (even with people trying to help guide them, and god help those who don't even have that).

    I don't know what the solution is. I suspect something more than orange exclamation/question mark (which is already being misapplied by some quest designers Blizzard - it absolutely should NOT be on the Heroic Warfront quest for example, that's just bad behaviour), like I dunno, a big gold glowing exclamation/question mark, which pulses on your map or something (obviously allow this to be disabled back in some options menu new players won't easily find), which guides people through the sensible path at max level. Orange question marks help but they've been debased as noted (and aren't used in some places where they should be).

    But it's not as simple as "MORE CONTENT == BETTER" as you appear to be asserting. Presentation of that content, particularly to new players, is extremely important. Also Blizzard honestly need to think about better catch-up mechanisms for stuff that isn't gear. They're very good at pure gear catch-up mechanisms, almost excessively so, but everything else? Not so much.

    At least WoW isn't screwing this up anywhere near as badly as FFXIV, though. FFXIV not only takes vastly longer to level up in, but you have to do dozens of hours (literally) of mostly fetch-quests to understand the story, and they're mandatory unless you buy a skip, which just leaves you having no idea what is going on. And all the tutorial/guidance stuff is absolutely godawful and seems like something from 2010 or earlier.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-03-30 at 04:54 PM.

  2. #41462
    Yeah, well, the sub numbers for Classic are not available, basing anything off of them as a random without insight is asinine.
    LOL no...it's....not.

    How many times do I have to repeat myself.

    My point was to tell you how many people are still interested in WoW in general (not just classic) but don't play because of how junk the game is. I used the example of release day classic to show you just how many people are still paying attention. Christ classic was BARELY advertised and they still pulled these numbers. Imagine if they completely made a brand new wow from scratch. The numbers would be INSANE.

    The amount of servers for Classic vs Retail alone speaks an entirely different reality. (More servers for Retail, they fit more players, work it out).
    Ok this is just dumb as fucking hell my dude. How long has retail gone on? How many servers did they have to release over the years to keep up with OLD sub number demands? How many servers have they had to merge together just because of all the people leaving? Then with xrealm groups they didn't have to worry about server death anymore because you can q with anyone at anytime from anywhere.

    But let me just repeat this....again...I'm not attempting to tell you classic is better than retail or they have millions of more players than retail. Listen to what I'm telling you. I'm telling you that sub numbers tripled. There are a TON of people still wanting to play wow, but don't, because of how trash the systems are.

    And I don't buy store mounts, try again. New players can easily be spotted by checking things like armories or simply their achievements. I play the game because I've loved it for the past 11 years, and I continue to do so. No entitled know-it-alls having a hardon for a different version of the game and a pathological need to make everyone else agree will change that.
    Oh so you're going around checking armories of people you see walking around leveling now LOL ok dude you got anymore fishing stories for me too?

    I'm not attempting to make anyone agree with me, I'm just telling you some facts here with some of my opinions as well. There is a massive massive population that still pays attention to wow but doesn't want to play it in it's current form. This is obvious and factual. New sub numbers proved this. I believe that doing this will bring those players back to stay for quite some time. Disagree with that opinion all you want, but attempting to act like retail wow just needs to keep doing what they are doing and just revamp a zone is going to bring back all these people is just insane. This is what they have been doing for how many years now?

    I'm not clueless, I was new to this game when there were plenty of systems and stuff convoluting it. I saw it as a world to discover, not "a slog to google". Thanks for this wholly useless debate, but Classic is for you. Retail = for those of us enjoying the game as is and as it evolves. Thanks.
    I'm talking about the game right now, were you brand new to this game at the release of BfA? Pretty sure you just said you've been playing the game for years and years now correct?

    So which is it?

  3. #41463
    Titan Arafal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Happy Pride
    Posts
    14,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Man, I want to be a Venthyr Blood Knight, but I also want wings. Maybe I should go with bastion? I can always find another red set, but I can't get Perma wings anywhere else.
    There'll be several cloaks to choose from.

    For all we know one of the venthyr ones is a pair of gargoyle wings.
    LoveLove
    Is

  4. #41464
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    The one and only, Evolving Azeroth! (and Sweden)
    Posts
    26,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Man, I want to be a Venthyr Blood Knight, but I also want wings. Maybe I should go with bastion? I can always find another red set, but I can't get Perma wings anywhere else.
    If Venthyr don't get some kind of permawings, we shall riot until they do!
    But I'd be surprised if they didn't plan for them already.
    Liberté, égalité, fraternité
    ⭑・゚゚・*:༅。.。༅:*゚:*:✼✿ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ✿✼:*゚:༅。.。༅:*・゚ ゚・⭑
    Telling people to not anger right-wing nuts "lest they grow militant" is about as honorable as telling girls not to show skin "lest they encourage rapists"...

  5. #41465
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    There'll be several cloaks to choose from.

    For all we know one of the venthyr ones is a pair of gargoyle wings.
    From what we saw at Bastion there might end up being 2 different back slot cosmetics for each covenant, Kyrian having both the wings and the Halo.

    What i am more intrigued by though is the likely possibility that cloaks will be a thing of the past going forward, or at least only given as low level quest rewards and such, proper back slot items are far more interesting, and will likely be the norm for raids going forwards.

  6. #41466
    Titan Arafal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Happy Pride
    Posts
    14,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    From what we saw at Bastion there might end up being 2 different back slot cosmetics for each covenant, Kyrian having both the wings and the Halo.
    They showed 3 different options actually.
    Wings, that symbol and the halo, each in 4 different colorations.


    - - - Updated - - -

    I hope they let us use the rewards cross covenant tho.
    I want to look like i just came out of Ori and blind forest as well as having access my sexy silver angelic wings.

    Most probably never gonna happen, but i can dream.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2020-03-30 at 05:47 PM.
    LoveLove
    Is

  7. #41467
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They showed 3 different options actually.
    Wings, that symbol and the halo, each in 4 different colorations.
    [IMG]
    Ohh yeah, forgot about that second thing. Even better then i guess.

    Pretty sure i will end up choosing the Night Fae covenant for my Hunter main unless the mail set is absolute garbage, so really looking forward to seeing more of the back slots from there at least, the butterfly wings we saw at the presentaion didnt exactly blow me out of the water, but i will keep an open mind.

  8. #41468
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I hope they let us use the rewards cross covenant tho.
    I want to look like i just came out of Ori and blind forest as well as having access my sexy silver angelic wings.

    Most probably never gonna happen, but i can dream.
    AFAIR they said at BlizzCon that you can only use the cosmetics of your active covenant.

  9. #41469
    The Patient Mokenuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Rosario, Santa Fe, Argentina.
    Posts
    326
    Please for the love of Lord Illidan throw us a bone blizzard.
    | Mokenuf | Varianna | Devona | Katzine | Gokkash | Vëcna | Uhla | Snookí | Vekuh | Segath | Zhìyù | Sierenna |

    6/9m

  10. #41470
    Titan Arafal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Happy Pride
    Posts
    14,385
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    AFAIR they said at BlizzCon that you can only use the cosmetics of your active covenant.
    As expected.

    Welp, i guess i gotta sacrifice my wings to become a full time nature spirit.
    LoveLove
    Is

  11. #41471
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They showed 3 different options actually.
    Wings, that symbol and the halo, each in 4 different colorations.


    - - - Updated - - -

    I hope they let us use the rewards cross covenant tho.
    I want to look like i just came out of Ori and blind forest as well as having access my sexy silver angelic wings.

    Most probably never gonna happen, but i can dream.
    Prolly not at release. Maybe after Shadowlands? Idk.

  12. #41472
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    As expected.

    Welp, i guess i gotta sacrifice my wings to become a full time nature spirit.
    It would be nice of them include unique "wings" for each type of covenant. I mean there's already the butterfly wings, but I mean other kind of nature-y wings



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Prolly not at release. Maybe after Shadowlands? Idk.
    Either make it interchangeable or do not cut off people from being unable to unlock them for tmog once SL is over.

    As it stands, with the 4 types of armor alone that means getting 16 characters in each of the covenants. Or 4 that switch between all of them. Both time intensive endeavors.
    Last edited by Geisl; 2020-03-30 at 06:59 PM.

  13. #41473
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It would be nice of them include unique "wings" for each type of covenant. I mean there's already the butterfly wings, but I mean other kind of nature-y wings
    The wings we saw with the concept art didn't exactly wow me, looking more like short capes instead of wings, but maybe they will look different in the actual game.

  14. #41474
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The wings we saw with the concept art didn't exactly wow me, looking more like short capes instead of wings, but maybe they will look different in the actual game.
    Think it's cuz they'd never give perma wings with as much breadth as DH wings.

  15. #41475
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Think it's cuz they'd never give perma wings with as much breadth as DH wings.
    I don't need actual giant wings, i just want something that looks more realistic than the cape-wing thing i saw.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What i would love to see specifically is maybe some folded bug-wings with layers, so it looks like my character actually has insect wings, or something to that effect. They don't need to be animated necessarily, just making me thing they are actually real.

  16. #41476


    I am waiting for an elaborate prank.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  17. #41477
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post


    I am waiting for an elaborate prank.
    That's just regular maintenance, isn't it?
    EU patch day is Wednesday?

  18. #41478
    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    That's just regular maintenance, isn't it?
    EU patch day is Wednesday?
    Yes wednesday is EU maintenance since forever ago.

  19. #41479
    Banned Lilithvia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    No matter the topic, someone will find a way to redirect it to complain about their current aggro.
    Posts
    3,116
    @Marlamin; did you see Bellular mentioned you by name? He also referenced Stiven.

  20. #41480
    Preach just said theres a really high chance a new class will be coming with Shadowlands after all.
    He can't say anything about it and we have to wait for Blizzard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •