9.0 General Discussion

[Cosmic Janitor]

But they issue is:
a) that choice might be different the moment you change spec or change content type
b) it is a hard choice that you cannot revert.

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That mass silence and fairly significant AoE burst from Kyrian sounds decent for Prot as well.

Didn't they say you can change it? Just not easily, so it probably means starting over by resetting or something dumb like that.

[FlubberPuddy]

The problem that everyone seed coming down the tracks on the system, that the ability you will NEED will not match the Covenant you WANT, has not been resolved.

This has the potential to really undermine the expansion because they will never, ever be able to balance the four abilities perfectly for each class. One will always be the best. And if one happens to be the best for your chosen DPS spec, then at some point over the lifecycle of SL something else will be the best spec and it may need a different Covenant.

Blizzard needs to unshackle the Covenant power abilities from being Covenant locked.

The reason they are so unique is because you have to make the choice. Either make your choice of Covenant for looks, or choose to min/max your class's output. That's always been the case in WoW.

[Lahis]

The problem that everyone seed coming down the tracks on the system, that the ability you will NEED will not match the Covenant you WANT, has not been resolved.

This has the potential to really undermine the expansion because they will never, ever be able to balance the four abilities perfectly for each class. One will always be the best. And if one happens to be the best for your chosen DPS spec, then at some point over the lifecycle of SL something else will be the best spec and it may need a different Covenant.

Blizzard needs to unshackle the Covenant power abilities from being Covenant locked.

That's the fix they'll begrudgingly make in 9.3 after we have suffered full expansion with horrible Covenant system.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So you essentially cannot change it. Not to try healing for the night, not to do some rated pvp, not to try a better setup for Torghast.
Even divorcing it from cosmetics, it still forces you to make a choice that makes you optimal in only ONE playstyle. That is not a fair choice to force on players.

Then make them all boring and not worth the time....

Yeah this discussion is pointless.

[plz delete account]

jeez servers aren't available yet

I demand my datamined broadcast text

[Greyfang]

But they issue is:
a) that choice might be different the moment you change spec or change content type
b) it is a hard choice that you cannot revert.

Exactly, so if changing your spec or the content you do is enough to throw the balance and make another covenant BIS, there's no winning. And if there's no winning, Im just going to pick the covenant I enjoy the most, and fuck it. In order for there to be true "balance" you'd have to have every ability easily interchangeable like talents, and I don't see that happening tbh.

[Cosmic Janitor]

So you essentially cannot change it. Not to try healing for the night, not to do some rated pvp, not to try a better setup for Torghast.
Even divorcing it from cosmetics, it still forces you to make a choice that makes you optimal in only ONE playstyle. That is not a fair choice to force on players.

While I agree, it remains to be seen how much impact the covenant passives have. Though I will happily agree that I have very little hope that they will fully compensate for some of the more ridiculously strong (or piss weak) ones in certain scenarios.

[FlubberPuddy]

Bullshit right back at you.

Like it or not these devs failed us in Battle for Azeroth, so their capacity to deliver shit, unfun systems has been proven. They don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore when it comes to gameplay and anyone who gives that to them is foolishly inviting a repeat of the last two years.

They have never, and will never, be able to balance four separate abilities across all specs. One will always sim out as being the best ability for the best spec and then that becomes the mandatory choice for the top end. And what the top end does, those lower down will follow because it will become the 'correct' choice. This is how it has always been, and we don't need an alpha cycle to tell us that is how it will be when we've fifteen years of experience behind us telling us how it will be.

The Covenant power ability should be unshackled from the Covenants themselves. Covenants should be chosen for aesthetic and transmog rewards, as well as their unique campaign, with the signature utility ability remaining locked to that Covenant choice. The major power abilities should be separated from Covenant choice and easily switched between as if they were talents. That is the ideal outcome.

Unless you're part of top 100 world first raiders, this doesn't apply. Pick what you find fun, if you're in a guild that gives you shit for picking the covenant you find fun then you're with a shit guild.

[Obelisk Kai]

The reason they are so unique is because you have to make the choice. Either make your choice of Covenant for looks, or choose to min/max your class's output. That's always been the case in WoW.

Since when has a choice of aesthetic ever been at odds with your character's power to this degree?

They are placing aesthetic desire in direct tension with the desire for player power. That's not a wise move in the slightest.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Remove them altogether. Cosmetics make for a reasonable choice already. If you want them all, you'll need to invest time on 16 characters! If you need the flavour of covenants to come through, there are other ways outside the covenants themselves; place them in items or legendaries.

Then they aren't really interesting choices and well that defeats the purpose of it. Blizzard can't win.

Since when has a choice of aesthetic ever been at odds with your character's power to this degree?

They are placing aesthetic desire in direct tension with the desire for player power. That's not a wise move in the slightest.

Which seems to imply its a major contension with the playerbase but since not everyone is some big bleeding edge "hardcore" that isn't really an issue.

They could make them a new lvl 60 talent row with 4 choices after you finish each covenant story. But that would make too much sense for blizzard

That would be seen as only one BiS talent to. The most "pro" players will look for the best performance output no matter what so worrying about it is pointless.

[Nokster10]

They could make them a new lvl 60 talent row with 4 choices after you finish each covenant story. But that would make too much sense for blizzard

[Edward Wu]

I have a feeling we'll get 1 more article tonight around 8PM Eastern.

[zeir]

Go to bed, nothing happening today or tomorrow. Come back wednesday.

[Chickat]

They can also balance around Soulbinds. If the aoe ability is good, but the single target covenant also has superior aoe soulbinds, it might not matter. I can see a world in which they are reasonably balanced, but thats going to be hard to pull off. I dont know what the solution is.

[Lahis]

"When the time comes to ally with one of these four, you’ll want to carefully consider the abilities the Covenant will provide you."

If that means that you cannot switch these abilities that easily, it will be a huge turn off for me.

That is precisely what it means.

[Archmage Alodi]

They should just let us unlock convent abilities one by one and add them as a new talent row, I don't want be in a covenant only because I need the ability to perform better.

[Chickat]

Go to bed, nothing happening today or tomorrow. Come back wednesday.

It's only 6pm here sir. I will not go to bed. Bossy pants.

[Obelisk Kai]

Unless you're part of top 100 world first raiders, this doesn't apply. Pick what you find fun, if you're in a guild that gives you shit for picking the covenant you find fun then you're with a shit guild.

Weak excuse, regularly deployed. Social pressure exists in this game, and too many will declare a non optimal choice as a clear sign you are an idiot. Pressure to conform will filter down as it always does.

Also, no ability tier is so finely balanced that only the top 100 guilds will care about the margin of difference. One will be the clear winner.

[Chickat]

They should just let us unlock convent abilities one by one and add them as a new talent row, I don't want be in a covenant only because I need the ability to perform better.

Maybe they could do a you get everything with your main covenant easily, but add a rep for the other ones. At revered or exalted you can use their abilities instead.

[Nathanyel]

jeez servers aren't available yet

pfft you let that stop you?