9.0 General Discussion

[Hitei]

Except this isn't a single-player game where the downsides won't matter because you're only competing against yourself. So this line of thinking doesn't work for the game.


Try again.

If they didn't matter they wouldn't be downsides.

[Yarathir]

"You want to join my group for +13 Soulplace of Souls? With THOSE COVENANT ABILITIES? LOL."
"I just liked the aesthetic.."

[Lahis]

"You want to join my group for +13 Soulplace of Souls? With THOSE COVENANT ABILITIES? LOL."
"I just liked the aesthetic.."

This will happen so many times.

Especially since one of the covenant abilities is targeted blink. Required for M+ Skopa.

[Yarathir]

This will happen so many times.

Especially since one of the covenant abilities is targeted blink. Required for M+ Skopa.

Can't wait for the chaos to ensue.

[Sharby]

"Well this covenant ability is best for mythic + & I plan on doing that a lot.... but I want to raid. So I'll need to level a whole separate character to do the other covenant for the biggest dps bonus"

This was Blizzard's goal. Not a flaw.

If this is the case then they're shooting themselves in the foot hard and this will be a disaster, one of WoW's strengths is the ability to do a large variety of content providing you have the gear and skill to do so. I liked the fact that I could do high-end PvP and raiding because I had exceptional gear (475+) just from M+.

If Covenants end up severely gimping player flexibility I don't think I will be playing for long personally tbh, and I'm guessing that some people will end up doing the same because it'll get boring.

Good god, someone with a functioning brain on this forum!

Like, at this point its honestly baffling some of the rhetoric I'm seeing in regards to this.


There's a reason I can do M+/Raids/PvP/Open world, and swap my gear/talents in accordance to optimizing my performance there for every single one. In fact that game often SUPPORTS the idea of being flexible by giving you a free respec in every dungeon/battleground when you first enter in some cases.


There's also a reason why you could swap legendaries in and out depending on the fight in Legion. But somehow Covenants should go against all of this just because of 'RPG reasons', like what? LOL.


WoW will never and shouldn't ever be designed like a single-player RPG, because what suits a single-player game does not work for an MMO. People need to get over this or go play single-player RPG's.

If they didn't matter they wouldn't be downsides.

I should've clarified, they don't matter in the sense that they can be as egregious as possible due to the fact that you are the only one making or being affected by the choice, so balancing isn't nearly as prioritized in single player games. Instead they go for making the most impactful and fun shit, which works well.


But that design philosophy doesn't translate well in an MMO at all.

[huth]

"You want to join my group for +13 Soulplace of Souls? With THOSE COVENANT ABILITIES? LOL."
"I just liked the aesthetic.."

As if they wouldn't just use some other stupid metric instead. The problem is the players, not the mechanic.

[Yarathir]

As if they wouldn't just use some other stupid metric instead. The problem is the players, not the mechanic.

That's a nice way to look at it.
But it isn't going to change reality.

[Vyomesh2]

"You want to join my group for +13 Soulplace of Souls? With THOSE COVENANT ABILITIES? LOL."
"I just liked the aesthetic.."

"LFM HC Anima Soul Raid. Link AotC and Covenant."
This is going to be hilarious.

[Yarathir]

If this is the case then they're shooting themselves in the foot hard and this will be a disaster, one of WoW's strengths is the ability to do a large variety of content providing you have the gear and skill to do so. I liked the fact that I could do high-end PvP and raiding because I had exceptional gear (475+) just from M+.

If Covenants end up severely gimping player flexibility I don't think I will be playing for long personally tbh, and I'm guessing that some people will end up doing the same because it'll get boring.







Like, at this point its honestly baffling some of the rhetoric I'm seeing in regards to this.


There's a reason I can do M+/Raids/PvP/Open world, and swap my gear/talents in accordance to optimizing my performance there for every single one. In fact that game often SUPPORTS the idea of being flexible by giving you a free respec in every dungeon/battleground when you first enter in some cases.


There's also a reason why you could swap legendaries in and out depending on the fight in Legion. But somehow Covenants should go against all of this just because of 'RPG reasons', like what? LOL.


WoW will never and shouldn't ever be designed like a single-player RPG, because what suits a single-player game does not work for an MMO. People need to get over this or go play single-player RPG's.

It's all especially funny when Blizzard's new buzzword for Shadowlands is player agency.

- - - Updated - - -

"LFM HC Anima Soul Raid. Link AotC and Covenant."
This is going to be hilarious.

Don't forget Soulbinds.

[Makabreska]

"You want to join my group for +13 Soulplace of Souls? With THOSE COVENANT ABILITIES? LOL."
"I just liked the aesthetic.."

"You wanna do X, with this spec/talent choice/azerite/essence/corruption/enchant???"

It will always happen, because some players can't see anything beyond BiS list.

"LFM HC Anima Soul Raid. Link AotC and Covenant."
This is going to be hilarious.

Did you see anyone asking for a show of azerite/essence/corruption? Peeps just care about raider.io and curve, Covenant wont change that.

[Yarathir]

"You wanna do X, with this spec/talent choice/enchant???"

It will always happen, because some players can't see anything beyond BiS list.

Yes. Which is why players tend to google the best spec/talent choice/enchants and change them whenever they need to, and they don't lose out on anything other than gold/a slightly different playstyle.

Weighing transmog/mounts against the best abilities with a system where you're almost locked into it because Blizzard doesn't want you to just hop back and forth is going to be a glorious mess.

And we haven't even seen what Soulbinds will do.

[huth]

That's a nice way to look at it.
But it isn't going to change reality.

That's the point. People will make ridiculous demands either way, with or without covenants.

[Azzurri]

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/1247564096603447296

[Yarathir]

That's the point. People will make ridiculous demands either way, with or without covenants.

You can meet those demands in most cases without giving things up. That's why talents became so easy to change to begin with.

[Zenfoldor]

You decide whether it sounds terrible enough to dissuade you.



Most of the "worries" are about not being able to just switch to whatever is best at a given moment, i.e. having to make long-term decisions and not being able to just evade the downsides. I have very little patience for those.

The people troubled about their preferred visuals colliding with their preferred ability aren't that many.

Blizzard has a tendency to nerf things. So the decisions we make at the time we make them will be completely arbitrary. The problem with an arbitrary having long term unknown effects on your player character is obvious. Having to roll dice is fine. A heavy time investment, such as a max level character, should be treated with some respect by the developers, not made meaningless by rng.

[Yarathir]

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/1247564096603447296

Holinka is joining the fun.

[Makabreska]

Yes. Which is why players tend to google the best spec/talent choice/enchants and change them whenever they need to, and they don't lose out on anything other than gold/a slightly different playstyle.

Weighing transmog/mounts against the best abilities with a system where you're almost locked into it because Blizzard doesn't want you to just hop back and forth is going to be a glorious mess.

And we haven't even seen what Soulbinds will do.

Well, then. All Blizz has to do is loose the requirements of re-spec, and we are all gucci.

[therumblings]

19 minutes and the rumblings shall explode!

[Yarathir]

Well, then. All Blizz has to do is loose the requirements of re-spec, and we are all gucci.

Re-spec? You mean Covenant ability re-spec?

[Vyomesh2]

If this is the case then they're shooting themselves in the foot hard and this will be a disaster, one of WoW's strengths is the ability to do a large variety of content providing you have the gear and skill to do so. I liked the fact that I could do high-end PvP and raiding because I had exceptional gear (475+) just from M+.

If Covenants end up severely gimping player flexibility I don't think I will be playing for long personally tbh, and I'm guessing that some people will end up doing the same because it'll get boring.







Like, at this point its honestly baffling some of the rhetoric I'm seeing in regards to this.


There's a reason I can do M+/Raids/PvP/Open world, and swap my gear/talents in accordance to optimizing my performance there for every single one. In fact that game often SUPPORTS the idea of being flexible by giving you a free respec in every dungeon/battleground when you first enter in some cases.


There's also a reason why you could swap legendaries in and out depending on the fight in Legion. But somehow Covenants should go against all of this just because of 'RPG reasons', like what? LOL.


WoW will never and shouldn't ever be designed like a single-player RPG, because what suits a single-player game does not work for an MMO. People need to get over this or go play single-player RPG's.

Yeah.
People just don't think about it enough. This is going to affect a lot of players. I am actually a big fan of choices in single player RPGs. Where you have to play the game again to see another outcome. Or something like DnD where choices are extremely important.
Blizzard has been making it easier than ever to make it so that people can enjoy different aspects of the game by swapping talents/gear/etc. And with this expansion they really want to focus on "player agency"
But this system is the antithesis of player agency. There really isn't that much of a choice.
If this system is going to be continue as is, it will be the 1 big thing everyone will complain about when the game is out and everyone has settled into their covenant and starts gearing/raiding/PvPing etc.

Can't wait to choose a covenant and then going to have to reroll my covenant choice when some ability was too OP and they nerfed it, or when they buff another covenant and suddenly now thats BiS.