9.0 General Discussion

[Kiki b]

It's a dungeon, not a raid boss. Shouldn't factor in majorly to the overall dungeon length unless no one wins, so you'll probably just regularly fight it out

[Blayze]

Just kill the other guy and take the DPS buff!

"Dude, stop healing yourself!"

[Sondrelk]

"Dude, stop healing yourself!"

Will be fun once people start blaming eachother for failing the mechanic.

[huth]

On progress people will be told to die because the other does more dps. But its might be fun when the raid is on farm?

That's what i mean. Weird arena "battles" where one side just sits down so the other gets autocrits.

[Sondrelk]

That's what i mean. Weird arena "battles" where one side just sits down so the other gets autocrits.

it is an intersting mechanic for organized M+ groups, possibly having to weigh the possibility fo damagin someone too quickly so they are in risk of dying or being expedient. There is also the possibility of large bursts of damage that would mean it might be safer to wait it out and swallow the cowardice debuff. Not that i could see something like that happening often, but it is still there.


In pugs this ability will be brutal and the source of many laughs though. Especially when you get players who have no idea what is happening.

[DemonDays]

Lul, sounds like someone is insecure.

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That is gonna be a nightmare to pug.

Stop projecting please.

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That is insanely cool. Although in Mythic+ the other guy just won't fight back for the sake of the timer.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Sounds like an incredibly stupid mechanic only invented to troll people.

"oh you deal more damage/have your cooldowns still?" okay, I just stand with my back to you and try to sit down to give you a few extra crits", wow, how riveting...

It feels like it wants to say something incredibly deep and profound, but just miserably fails at it.

[FlubberPuddy]

Sounds like an incredibly stupid mechanic only invented to troll people.

"oh you deal more damage/have your cooldowns still?" okay, I just stand with my back to you and try to sit down to give you a few extra crits", wow, how riveting...

It feels like it wants to say something incredibly deep and profound, but just miserably fails at it.

Jeezus, it feels you're the one putting some heavy meaning onto it. It's just a lil cool different mechanic during a DUNGEON.

Most players will do exactly that: you got your CDs? Ok "kill" me!

The only players who end up stupid will be the ones treating it like a dick-measuring contest and using their cds/immunities against each other lol

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sounds like an incredibly stupid mechanic only invented to troll people.

"oh you deal more damage/have your cooldowns still?" okay, I just stand with my back to you and try to sit down to give you a few extra crits", wow, how riveting...

It feels like it wants to say something incredibly deep and profound, but just miserably fails at it.

*N'zoth when creating Split personality*


"Excellent.......mwahahahahahha"

<.<

[Valysar]

And in the end the 2 players have a damage boost, sooo who cares.

[Raetary]

And in the end the 2 players have a damage boost, sooo who cares.

Only one of the 2 does.

[Izalla]

Only one of the 2 does.

Oh one is a decrease, ignore me

[Ersula]

There are a ton of factors that Blizzard hasn't explained the significance of, and don't make sense if this 3-expansion long storyline ended with Sylvanas just being put down:

*The BFA tie-in Novel, in Sylvanas internal monologue so we know she's not lying, she describes hating the fact she was chosen as Warchief & would rather be left to work in the shadows
*In that same novel, she pays particular attention to the children in Orgrimmar; likely evoking her Warbringer's short where she watches a mother & child die. I dought the internal motivation meant to glean from this is "fuk dem kids"
*For all the people citing the Edge of Night short story, they seem to forget the part where Annhylde the Caller, leader of Arthas' valkyr. Volunteer for Sylvanas' service. At no point does she recruit them.
*As Annhylde the Caller describes, "Only a child of light & darkness should have control over life & death." If Bolvar, Arthas, Kel'thuzad & the Nathrazim had some knowledge of the Shadowlands it's safe to assume these Val'kyr do too.
*As Holinka & Watcherdev have said themselves repeatedly: The conflict between the Horde & Alliance, or the fate of Azeroth pales in comparison to what's happening in the Shadowlands" ....Which should give more context to the line "The Horde is nothing." Repeatedly Sylvanas is almost like a stand-in for the Devs. "Saurfang wants a warrior'd death... Let us oblige him"

[therumblings]

The conflict between the Horde & Alliance, or the fate of Azeroth pales in comparison to what's happening in the Shadowlands" ....Which should give more context to the line "The Horde is nothing."

You're bending over backwards here. The Devs are not as brilliant as we hope them to be, I hope they prove me wrong.

I give you credit though, considering you are way more creative than the people who write this game.

[Sharby]

Ah, I love when Blizzard gives me a chance to assert my dominance.



But something like this would only work if CD's are restored after the duel, otherwise on-demand burst classes will win every time.

[Sondrelk]

There are a ton of factors that Blizzard hasn't explained the significance of, and don't make sense if this 3-expansion long storyline ended with Sylvanas just being put down:

*The BFA tie-in Novel, in Sylvanas internal monologue so we know she's not lying, she describes hating the fact she was chosen as Warchief & would rather be left to work in the shadows
*In that same novel, she pays particular attention to the children in Orgrimmar; likely evoking her Warbringer's short where she watches a mother & child die. I dought the internal motivation meant to glean from this is "fuk dem kids"
*For all the people citing the Edge of Night short story, they seem to forget the part where Annhylde the Caller, leader of Arthas' valkyr. Volunteer for Sylvanas' service. At no point does she recruit them.
*As Annhylde the Caller describes, "Only a child of light & darkness should have control over life & death." If Bolvar, Arthas, Kel'thuzad & the Nathrazim had some knowledge of the Shadowlands it's safe to assume these Val'kyr do too.
*As Holinka & Watcherdev have said themselves repeatedly: The conflict between the Horde & Alliance, or the fate of Azeroth pales in comparison to what's happening in the Shadowlands" ....Which should give more context to the line "The Horde is nothing." Repeatedly Sylvanas is almost like a stand-in for the Devs. "Saurfang wants a warrior'd death... Let us oblige him"

Still though, you have yet to give a convincing answer of what Sylvanas could do that would make you convinced she is evil? She has already attempted enslaving the queen of the Val'kyr despite her outspoken view that mind control is wrong, Killed dissenters who disagree with her, commited shady deals with Azshara, and by proxy N'zoth for what seems to be causing them to kill more people, as well as Burning down Teldrassil, killing thousands of noncombatants, including the women and children she supposedly cares so much about, then ressurecting the dead to use to kill the survivors.

This is the kind of evil stuff that would be too much for Mecha-hitler in a Wolfenstein game, let alone a supposedly morally grey character we are supposed to wonder whether is truly evil.
Stio trying to rationalize, the writers are not going to redeem her at this point.

[Ersula]

You're bending over backwards here. The Devs are not as brilliant as we hope them to be, I hope they prove me wrong.

I give you credit though, considering you are way more creative than the people who write this game.

I survived the Moffat Era of Doctor Who: I can detect a hack writer prolonging an unsatisfying twist a mile away. And that's what this is. If a writer can't portray a morally grey argument well, the next best thing they'll do is portray a character as pure evil & then reveal to us a good motivation nearing the end of the story.

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Still though, you have yet to give a convincing answer of what Sylvanas could do that would make you convinced she is evil? She has already attempted enslaving the queen of the Val'kyr despite her outspoken view that mind control is wrong, Killed dissenters who disagree with her, commited shady deals with Azshara, and by proxy N'zoth for what seems to be causing them to kill more people, as well as Burning down Teldrassil, killing thousands of noncombatants, including the women and children she supposedly cares so much about, then ressurecting the dead to use to kill the survivors.

This is the kind of evil stuff that would be too much for Mecha-hitler in a Wolfenstein game, let alone a supposedly morally grey character we are supposed to wonder whether is truly evil.
Stio trying to rationalize, the writers are not going to redeem her at this point.

Each of the Covenants players themselves will be joining do a few of those evil things you mentioned. And we know she knew about the Shadowlands when Annhylde gave her this quest. Killing isn't as bad when there's this vivid afterlife. It's not so much murder as just teleporting people to another location. Sending people to the maw: That's pretty evil. That's what the Arbiter does on the regular. But if you have to send people to the maw temporarily in order to ultimately free them: That's justified. That's good.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Each of the Covenants players themselves will be joining do a few of those evil things you mentioned. And we know she knew about the Shadowlands when Annhylde gave her this quest. Killing isn't as bad when there's this vivid afterlife. It's not so much murder as just teleporting people to another location. Sending people to the maw: That's pretty evil. That's what the Arbiter does on the regular. But if you have to send people to the maw temporarily in order to ultimately free them: That's justified. That's good.

Where does it say that people get send to the maw regularily before current events? The maw was reserved for the irredeemable and dangerous. Doesn't excactly sound like they had a quota before.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

All this justifying for one god damn Elf.

[Sondrelk]

Each of the Covenants players themselves will be joining do a few of those evil things you mentioned. And we know she knew about the Shadowlands when Annhylde gave her this quest. Killing isn't as bad when there's this vivid afterlife. It's not so much murder as just teleporting people to another location. Sending people to the maw: That's pretty evil. That's what the Arbiter does on the regular. But if you have to send people to the maw temporarily in order to ultimately free them: That's justified. That's good.

Stop dodging the question. Just give me an example of what she could do to convince oyu she is evil, because by all accounts you would at this point be willing to twist a scene of her throwing Silvermoon orphans into a woodchipper into a story of her saving them from starvation.

And even with an afterlife what she is doing is still killing them. Which is especially egregious considering she is in a pact with a being that causes all the people she kills to end up in the worst version of hell, as compared to a nicer version of the afterlife. Though of course, you would probably twist this too considering they currently have problems, despite those problem being directly caused by her.

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Also, where are you getting this proof that the covenants we join are doing the same thing to others? The only thing we have seen so far is the Kyrian covenant taking the selfless people and removing their memories so they can be impartial in eternal service, and Maldraxxus attacking Bastion, despite Maldraxxus specifically having several factions, with no indication we join the one that attacked.