9.0 General Discussion

[huth]

Writing-wise it will not happen. If Danuser wanted to hype people for Sylvanas, he would have also mentioned some kind of origin story for her alliance with Jailer. This is basic logic dude. People would be more hyped if they knew they arent getting just her motivations, but also a lot of backstory.

No, that isn't logic at all, that is wishful thinking. You're not making any logical arguments there.

[Yarathir]

It will be the 29th or the 6th.

Yeah I assume something around there but it would help to get an official date so I can tighten the noose now instead of a week before pre-patch launches.

[Varodoc]

No, that isn't logic at all, that is wishful thinking. You're not making any logical arguments there.

Except I am. The people who are not making logical arguments are those who assume Sylvanas was unjustly sent to the Maw, when there is NO indication whatsoever of this.

[formerShandalay]

He didn't specificially say we wouldn't learn her backstory. You're not bringing any arguments as to why that story couldn't be possible.

And he did mention Edge of Night at Blizzcon while talking about we'd learn how Sylvanas got into contact with the Jailer and how the Jailer had over the course of Azeroth's history been involved in a lot of things that we don't know yet.

I agree with Varodoc in the opinion that Sylvanas herself is going to have a rude awakening as to her own importance and what it means to only have borrowed power, just like all of the other antagonists we've faced in the past... 'but.... but... they promised...', but I don't agree that we won't learn any more backstory. If not for Sylvanas's sake, then in any case so we can learn about how the Jailer put his chess-pieces into position while all the realms and the 'watchers' in the Shadowlands were convinced that his evil was confined to the Maw (just like we saw in the cinematic) and nothing could possibly get out.

Except I am. The people who are not making logical arguments are those who assume Sylvanas was unjustly sent to the Maw, when there is NO indication whatsoever of this.

That is not true. There are people in Revendreth that did things absolutely comparable to what Sylvanas did post-Cataclysm and they didn't go to the Maw either. While I don't think that is actual proof she didn't go to the Maw for realz, she could have been tricked by the Jailer, because he needed someone to replace the Lich King in his plans for Azeroth. (Because Bolvar was not as easy to get under control, because of the Red Dragon flame, so he needed a different pawn).

[Cherry123]

I will be interested in more material to pre-patch, novel, audio drama and comic

[Varodoc]

How would Jailer even bring Sylvanas to the Maw anyway? He is powerless, he cannot do anything, the other realms of the Shadowlands cannot even fathom that he would be a threat, and all his minions are confined to his domain.

[formerShandalay]

How would Jailer even bring Sylvanas to the Maw anyway? He is powerless, he cannot do anything, the other realms of the Shadowlands cannot even fathom that he would be a threat, and all his minions are confined to his domain.

And Uther himself is proof that the other covenants are wrong. If the power of the Maw is detectable on Uther, which Devos saw at once, when she saw the wound, how could Sylvanas's soul, who was not only torn by Frostmourne, but the raised into undeath and tortured by powers granted by the Jailer not be touched by the Maw? I mean, Arthas himself could have made her a pawn to the Jailer without even knowing it while he tortured her. And the Lich King's val'kyr, made with that same power, may have had a hand in it too.
I mean you're right of course that none of this is any kind of proof or confirmation, but it's not like there aren't hints for lots of wild speculation so far.

[Varodoc]

And Uther himself is proof that the other covenants are wrong. If the power of the Maw is detectable on Uther, which Devos saw at once, when she saw the wound, how could Sylvanas's soul, who was not only torn by Frostmourne, but the raised into undeath and tortured by powers granted by the Jailer not be touched by the Maw? I mean, Arthas himself could have made her a pawn to the Jailer without even knowing it while he tortured her. And the Lich King's val'kyr, made with that same power, may have had a hand in it too.
I mean you're right of course that none of this is any kind of proof or confirmation, but it's not like there aren't hints for lots of wild speculation so far.

If the Valkyrs were enough to carry out the Jailer influence on the mortal plane, then he would not have needed Sylvanas in the first place. He already had 9 agents who could spread chaos and discord.

Besides the Scourge, and thus the valkyrs by extension, are based on Maldraxxus, not the Maw.

[razorpax]

Still doesn't expalin why he didn't go into the Light if he was literally saved by the Light. Why would the Light send people into the Shadowlands?


How is his soul saved when he's not with the Light like Crusader Bridenbrad?

So your complaint is the light placed his soul into a place called the shadowlands...you do know that beings of pure light are in the shadowlands right

- - - Updated - - -

Have yet to see any hugely negative takes on Torghast. The biggest issue of contention is Covenants which is mostly anger of "locked" aesthetics, and you can tell how aware they are of the aesthetic thing when they are adding ways for players to get other covenant themed mounts.

If an expansion fails because someone can't ride a robot cat AND minmax, then that's on the playerbase.

The player power being locked to the covenants and the weekly conduit lockout are the only issues with covenants.

Torghast has an intro that is now tedious and can take as long as the nonskip cloak quest

The dungeon bonuses for the covenant choice is the last bad thing that I see with the expansion


The content itself is all great

[Halfaheart]

Thinking about the underlying plot of these cinematics..

What if each one introduces a past character that's been sent to the maw by the respected covenant it's highlighting?

Would make for a superteam of bad guys in the Maw. Considering Uther dropped Arthas in and there's rampant speculation of Garrosh being irredeemable (though unconfirmed) I wonder who would fit in for Night Fae and Maldraxxus

[Nerovar]

So your complaint is the light placed his soul into a place called the shadowlands...you do know that beings of pure light are in the shadowlands right

If you're referring to the Naaru in Revendreth - yes, and it's imprisoned there. Notice something?

[formerShandalay]

If the Valkyrs were enough to carry out the Jailer influence on the mortal plane, then he would not have needed Sylvanas in the first place. He already had 9 agents who could spread chaos and discord.

Besides the Scourge, and thus the valkyrs by extension, are based on Maldraxxus, not the Maw.

No, I don't mean that the val'kyr can use unlimited 'Maw-power', I think that'd be a wee bit too much maybe. What I mean is that the whole Lich King thing, including the whole Scourge was made possible with the power of the Jailer. It wasn't the Jailer himself, because he is bound to the Maw, but he found a loophole, once the Legion had taken part of his power outside and was able to manipulate things from then on. Had he been able to freely operate already, he would not have needed the Lich King nor Sylvanas to build up his power outside of the Maw.
But in the case of Sylvanas in Edge of Night, she was already standing right on his doorstep, surrounded by beings made with the Jailer's power, had already been scarred and torn apart by the Jailer's power (Frostmourne at the very least). So my guess is, in that specific case it may have been easy for the Jailer to get to her. Or rather, get her to him. She jumped right onto his head, kind of ^^

And yes, the Scourge is modeled after Maldraxxus, but the power that makes it all happen is from the Maw/the Jailer.

[razorpax]

If you're referring to the Naaru in Revendreth - yes, and it's imprisoned there. Notice something?

so do you also have a problem with a nature realm being in the shadowlands??

do you have a problem with every afterlife ever in all of existence in the warcraft universe being a part of the shadowlands??

[Dhomeli]

Anyone else want to join Uther rather than the main Kyrian? lol

[Nerovar]

so do you also have a problem with a nature realm being in the shadowlands??

do you have a problem with every afterlife ever in all of existence in the warcraft universe being a part of the shadowlands??

Citation needed.

If there's a Light afterlife (as hinted by the Crusader Bridenbrad quest) why aren't Uther and Mograine there?

[TigTone]

Citation needed.

If there's a Light afterlife (as hinted by the Crusader Bridenbrad quest) why aren't Uther and Mograine there?

Maybe they have to be directly taken there by a light Being.
Seeing how the light and void are not welcomed really in the shadowlands.

[Nerovar]

Maybe they have to be directly taken there by a light Being.
Seeing how the light and void are not welcomed really in the shadowlands.

If the Light isn't welcome there... Why would it have its afterlife inside the Shadowlands?

[Vakir]

The Bridenbrad quest is kind of a weird thing to talk about considering it's a tribute to an actually-dead employee's relative and was made 6 expansions ago.

Retcons suck and they're very heavily doled out in Warcraft, but this is one where I think it's a silly hill to stand on. The Shadowlands, despite what Chronicle said before they ruined it, and despite its name, is the afterlife. We're getting 5 flavors of what is described as nearly infinite because it's an expansion to a video game that has a finite number of resources put into it. Is there a Light-themed afterlife specifically? Most likely. Uther or Mograine isn't there because that's just not the respective story for either of them. There is zero conflict for either of them to be there.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The Bridenbrad quest is kind of a weird thing to talk about considering it's a tribute to an actually-dead employee's relative and was made 6 expansions ago.

Retcons suck and they're very heavily doled out in Warcraft, but this is one where I think it's a silly hill to stand on. The Shadowlands, despite what Chronicle said before they ruined it, and despite its name, is the afterlife. We're getting 5 flavors of what is described as nearly infinite because it's an expansion to a video game that has a finite number of resources put into it. Is there a Light-themed afterlife specifically? Most likely. Uther or Mograine isn't there because that's just not the respective story for either of them. There is zero conflict for either of them to be there.

It wasn't ruined, there was no way we'd see the total scope of the Shadowlands in lore, we get like maybe a snack of what it holds.

[Vakir]

It wasn't ruined, there was no way we'd see the total scope of the Shadowlands in lore, we get like maybe a snack of what it holds.

I'm talking about Chronicle being ruined, not the Shadowlands.

It being Watsonian vs. Doylist means it's no longer a reliable bible for the lore that it was advertised as. YMMV, but I think it's been pretty heavily scuffed up as a result.

I agree with you re: the Shadowlands, though. Concessions need to be made with something that has that wide of a scope. Some have argued it might be a mistake to fully explore the afterlife as it robs us of some mystery, and I'd agree with that for the most part, but if you were going to do it, you'd need to limit it the way they did here to avoid drowning in famous characters.