9.0 General Discussion

[Varodoc]

I kinda like the version they have now where the Void corrupts and the Light controls, but neither power is inherently evil to use. Allows some more interesting stories to take place when you have different Light users that have vastly different moralities. Things like Anduin being completely different from Xe'ra, which is again different to the Scarlet crusade. Things like that.

It also allows us to have Locus-Walker, Alleria and the Void Elves without it feeling like they are walking timebombs.

Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

But the Ren'dorei have one advantage that the lesser races don't, and it's their sheer willpower and knowledge, which makes them the hardest mortals to corrupt. Who'd succumb to the Void faster? A random drunkard who doesn't even know what the Void is, or an elite elf who has been training non-stop to resist the whispers?

[Haidaes]

Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

But the Ren'dorei have one advantage that the lesser races don't, and it's their sheer willpower and knowledge, which makes them the hardest mortals to corrupt. Who'd succumb to the Void faster? A random drunkard who doesn't even know what the Void is, or an elite elf who has been training non-stop to resist the whispers?

And yet stormwind had 2 of the most knowledgable instantly corrupted as well. Your theory has quite a few holes. Also Visions just showed one of the many possibilities. Using that for argument is kinda flawed in itself.

[Varodoc]

And yet stormwind had 2 of the most knowledgable instantly corrupted as well. Your theory has quite a few holes. Also Visions just showed one of the many possibilities. Using that for argument is kinda flawed in itself.

You literally contradicted yourself in the same post, which only has two lines haha.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

All possibilities is contradicting. /10chars

[huth]

Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

That's hardly an accurate representation of what we've been told and shown. And if anything, the visions show that resisting it is quite possible and the Ren'dorei are more, not less, suspectible.

[Haidaes]

You literally contradicted yourself in the same post, which only has two lines haha.

How did I contradict myself? Because I looked at your argument from your level and then zoomed out to another to show that it is even more fundamentally flawed?

[zantheus1993]

Not attaching an absolute morality to any of the cosmic powers is just a good decision in the long run tbh. It allows for a lot more room of what our enemies are, and could lead to interesting allies; We are just starting to see Void as something that can be used "for good" and since Demon Hunters, we have a solid base for positive use for Fel now next to Warlocks.

As much as seeing Light -and even Nature and Arcane- as enemies during an expansion, it would also be pretty neat to have Fel and Void users as our main allies.

there was a show i used to watch that kinda covered this

gods dont really care about mortals they just see us as things that exist and this is definitely true with the titans

[huth]

there was a show i used to watch that kinda covered this

gods dont really care about mortals they just see us as things that exist and this is definitely true with the titans

They pretty much only took us serious because our characters actually act on a scale that is relevant to them. Well, and saved their bacon. That probably helped.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They pretty much only took us serious because our characters actually act on a scale that is relevant to them. Well, and saved their bacon. That probably helped.

Outside of being thankful for us we don't know much about how they think about us. I mean it was the first time they saw us defy and dismantle their brother's crusade.

[huth]

Outside of being thankful for us we don't know much about how they think about us. I mean it was the first time they saw us defy and dismantle their brother's crusade.

That they think about us at all is already a step up from what they consider usually.

[HighlordJohnstone]

Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

But the Ren'dorei have one advantage that the lesser races don't, and it's their sheer willpower and knowledge, which makes them the hardest mortals to corrupt. Who'd succumb to the Void faster? A random drunkard who doesn't even know what the Void is, or an elite elf who has been training non-stop to resist the whispers?

Not...really...true. If anything, that just shows we can resist it, if our willpower's strong enough, or if we have the tools to resist it.

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You literally contradicted yourself in the same post, which only has two lines haha.

All possibilities doesn't matter when they're both A. Possibilities. And B. Proven to not matter anyway as we're the only true timeline. Hypotheticals or what if's shouldn't be used in a debate at all tbh.

[Eurhetemec]

First I'd like to know what the hell is Principal Game Designer. Sound like just step up from Senior. When Ion started replacing Chilton he straight up got Assistant Game Director title.

Only way they would can Ion is when WoW got huge drop in sales or subs (generally profits), not because some forum dwellers don't like him. Probably eventually he just resign and switch project or job when he will be burnout, but Ion seems to be more passionate about WoW than previous lead devs. He started as player after all.

If a game has both a game director and a game designer, it's likely the role titles indicate pretty different areas of concern. The titles are not standardized at all, so it's always had to say, but generally game director is maximally zoomed-out, looking at the entire game, and probably doing little, if any, actual design, writing, or anything, just project managing everything. People blame Ion for a lot of stuff, but whilst it's true the buck stops with him, it's extremely unlikely any of the systems originated with him.

A game designer is more likely to be more zoomed-in and actually doing design, particularly gameplay design. Principal game designer suggests elevation above any other game designers - and yes as has been said, he's probably directly below the game director. As David Kim was lead systems designer on D4, I strongly suspect his focus on WoW will be similar - improving the actual gameplay, likely on a micro and macro/meta level. Interesting for D4 as well - if Blizzard can afford to move the lead systems designer, either the basic systems are pretty much set, and the game is closer to release than might have been thought, or they're getting re-done, and it's even further away. I guess that's not very helpful but interesting to me nonetheless.

[ohwell]

You arent supposed to get the Heart of Azeroth until you cap.

The whole Magni questchain gets delayed until that.

I skipped BfA until last month(also computer died at the start of covid so yeah just got it fixed then too), but don't you get the heart when you start BfA? I was pretty drunk when I started BfA and leveled super fast so don't recall. Like I was 120 the same day and had flying within less than a week so forgive me it was a blur.

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there was a show i used to watch that kinda covered this

gods dont really care about mortals they just see us as things that exist and this is definitely true with the titans

Well apparently if everything that's slowly coming to the surface is to be believed they aren't even the great people we thought. That makes us not even fleas but bacteria. Then again I love my flora as it and my immune system are very strong.

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You literally contradicted yourself in the same post, which only has two lines haha.

I mean I get what you both are saying, but that does mean it's possible while it doesn't mean it's hard or impossible if that makes sense. Showing one possibility means it's more likely they would be rather than not until we see evidence of the other possibilities.

Then again I always refer back to the Alleria and Turalyon story that said basically the void will tell you 9999 lies and 1 truth. All of the lies seem possible and that's how they get you.

[Nyel]

Frankly the way Ion designs the game would have fit well on the Diablo 4 team. Where mass looting and few-button class design works.

Yeah so they maybe just have to switch positions to make Diablo IV more Diablo-like and WoW less...

Honestly, a Diablo III talent system would be really cool though. It would just increase individuality a lot because now we have the same talent, but with different situations, e.g. AoE, ST etc. A rework like that would make sense in my opinion and it would reduce the amount of dead talents overall (there are way too much of them).

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I skipped BfA until last month(also computer died at the start of covid so yeah just got it fixed then too), but don't you get the heart when you start BfA? I was pretty drunk when I started BfA and leveled super fast so don't recall. Like I was 120 the same day and had flying within less than a week so forgive me it was a blur.

Yeah, you were supposed to get the Heart right before you head to Kul Tiras / Zandalar. Now you get it after you reach max level.

[Makorus]

I skipped BfA until last month(also computer died at the start of covid so yeah just got it fixed then too), but don't you get the heart when you start BfA? I was pretty drunk when I started BfA and leveled super fast so don't recall. Like I was 120 the same day and had flying within less than a week so forgive me it was a blur.

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Well apparently if everything that's slowly coming to the surface is to be believed they aren't even the great people we thought. That makes us not even fleas but bacteria. Then again I love my flora as it and my immune system are very strong.

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I mean I get what you both are saying, but that does mean it's possible while it doesn't mean it's hard or impossible if that makes sense. Showing one possibility means it's more likely they would be rather than not until we see evidence of the other possibilities.

Then again I always refer back to the Alleria and Turalyon story that said basically the void will tell you 9999 lies and 1 truth. All of the lies seem possible and that's how they get you.

Yeah, you used to get the Heart of Azeroth at the start of expansion, but since the Prepatch, you get it after you cap.

Its because the intended path is "Exiles Reach -> Battle for Azeroth" and it wouldnt make much sense for us to be this big huge hero just after we leave Exiles Reach.

[Nyel]

I'm curious to see how Blizzard is going to handle the massive lags that are occuring over the last weeks. Europe, 9:50 in the morning and the game is barely playable in Nazjatar. The whole /1 chat was complaining about it.

[Makorus]

I'm curious to see how Blizzard is going to handle the massive lags that are occuring over the last weeks. Europe, 9:50 in the morning and the game is barely playable in Nazjatar. The whole /1 chat was complaining about it.

They will use more server space for the Shadowlands zones for a few weeks instead of old zones like the last few expansions.

BfA nor Legion were laggy.

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Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

But the Ren'dorei have one advantage that the lesser races don't, and it's their sheer willpower and knowledge, which makes them the hardest mortals to corrupt. Who'd succumb to the Void faster? A random drunkard who doesn't even know what the Void is, or an elite elf who has been training non-stop to resist the whispers?

But the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar or the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar or Thrall weren't actually corrupted lol?

Like, the visions werent an alternate future. The Visions were N'zoth trying to trick us into believing that resisting is futile. You could argue that Anduin was close, but he was able to be easily snapped out of it.

Yet you got the Host of Badness Alleria who hears even more whispers now who will totally not invite the void lords over to Azeroth in two expansions.

[Sarethion]

I'm curious to see how Blizzard is going to handle the massive lags that are occuring over the last weeks. Europe, 9:50 in the morning and the game is barely playable in Nazjatar. The whole /1 chat was complaining about it.

Noticed it too, but in my case it was the Soulbinder - basically whenever a group engages it, the servers catch fire for a couple minutes.

[Grimbold21]

I'm curious to see how Blizzard is going to handle the massive lags that are occuring over the last weeks. Europe, 9:50 in the morning and the game is barely playable in Nazjatar. The whole /1 chat was complaining about it.

This seems to happen every time there's the 2k gold emissary in Nazjatar

[Varodoc]

That's hardly an accurate representation of what we've been told and shown. And if anything, the visions show that resisting it is quite possible and the Ren'dorei are more, not less, suspectible.

Visions of Orgrimmar = Literally every Horde mortal in Orgrimmar, including Thrall, succumb to the Void.

How did I contradict myself? Because I looked at your argument from your level and then zoomed out to another to show that it is even more fundamentally flawed?

No, because you are trying to accuse Alleria using a vision when you literally said using visions is supposedly a bad idea.

Not...really...true. If anything, that just shows we can resist it, if our willpower's strong enough, or if we have the tools to resist it.

Which the other mortals don't have, since the Ren'dorei are the FIRST mortals to defy the whispers.

They will use more server space for the Shadowlands zones for a few weeks instead of old zones like the last few expansions.

BfA nor Legion were laggy.

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But the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar or the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar or Thrall weren't actually corrupted lol?

Like, the visions werent an alternate future. The Visions were N'zoth trying to trick us into believing that resisting is futile. You could argue that Anduin was close, but he was able to be easily snapped out of it.

Yet you got the Host of Badness Alleria who hears even more whispers now who will totally not invite the void lords over to Azeroth in two expansions.

You use the argument "they were not actually corrupted lolol" then try to accuse Alleria when she herself was not corrupted either, and became the first mortal to defy the shadows' whispers. NO OTHER MORTAL before her accomplished this, as was stated by Blizzard themselves.