1. #66681
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    For Nathanos I feel a much better take on the same cutscene would simply just cutting his villain monologe with Tyrande. Would be a nice twist as well if we had Tyrande taunting him for no longer being with Sylvanas before cutting his throat, but in general I feel the biggest misstep really was that he got to have his villainous monologue despite not really having a good reason. Sure, our characters and Tyrande might not know that he has been abandoned by Sylvanas, but the way he acts makes it seem like even he doesnt actually know he has been abandoned yet.
    He also didn't even have his monologue cut short for the right reasons! It's not some kind of "own" on him that Tyrande slit his throat, it's an own on her that he got under her skin, her partial vengeance was unsatisfying, and the trail on Sylvanas is now luke-warm at best. That was gloating. There was no comeuppance. If Nathanos is out of the story for good, it's an unsatisfying way to do it. If he's a future raid boss, they need to nail the shit out of it - but it would also be another weird-ass exception being granted to the character that's undeserved, as Sylvanas is confirmed to no longer give a fuck about him and thus he should be just another Stygia battery for the Jailer to use.

    This reminds me of when Dave Kosack said back around Mists that "there will be a reckoning" for Sylvanas and her actions relative to some of the dubious stuff in Cataclysm, and then people insisted that the fall of Lordaeron would be that reckoning after Teldrassil happened, before they knew how it would end. ...then she nuked it on purpose. Now people insist her characterization was all just as keikaku and that she was good all along/a redemption arc is coming. Exciting reckoning if true, guys!

  2. #66682
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    He also didn't even have his monologue cut short for the right reasons! It's not some kind of "own" on him that Tyrande slit his throat, it's an own on her that he got under her skin, her partial vengeance was unsatisfying, and the trail on Sylvanas is now luke-warm at best. That was gloating. There was no comeuppance. If Nathanos is out of the story for good, it's an unsatisfying way to do it. If he's a future raid boss, they need to nail the shit out of it - but it would also be another weird-ass exception being granted to the character that's undeserved, as Sylvanas is confirmed to no longer give a fuck about him and thus he should be just another Stygia battery for the Jailer to use.

    This reminds me of when Dave Kosack said back around Mists that "there will be a reckoning" for Sylvanas and her actions relative to some of the dubious stuff in Cataclysm, and then people insisted that the fall of Lordaeron would be that reckoning after Teldrassil happened, before they knew how it would end. ...then she nuked it on purpose. Now people insist her characterization was all just as keikaku and that she was good all along/a redemption arc is coming. Exciting reckoning if true, guys!
    Simply not having Tyrande be fazed by Nathanos could work too I suppose. If his monologue is instead framed more as him trying to goad her into killing him, or generally reverting to be the person everyone knows him as. Would possibly feed een better into the tragedy if he gets more and more desperate to elicit a reaction from Tyrande by continuing his spiel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Do keep in mind that we actually do start lower in SL. Maw Walker only references the fact that we're so far the only known person to have left the Maw under their own power, and not even we ourselves know why. They have little to no idea what else to think of us, and Bastion initially treats you as nothing more than a regular new arrival, not even fully realising you aten't dead.
    Shadowlands is definitely a step up, but really that mostly comes down to BfA being the crowning achievement in the plaer being lauded as a hero, possily even more so than in Legion, where at least there was the slim caveat that you were just a leader of your chosen class.

    Hopefully in future expansion the writers lean more towards having hte character be as insignificant as possible in the early game before getting renown over time. Not to the level where noone knows who we are, but rather more that the people we interract with don't.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #66683
    Anyone notice while testing the Maw in the quest The Path to Salvation if another player is on that quest they have the same NPCs following you but have generic names. Jaina was "Kul Tiran Mage", I forgot what Baine was but I swear I saw Anduin's named "Stormwind Paladin". I might be reading into it too much.
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  4. #66684
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Anyone notice while testing the Maw in the quest The Path to Salvation if another player is on that quest they have the same NPCs following you but have generic names. Jaina was "Kul Tiran Mage", I forgot what Baine was but I swear I saw Anduin's named "Stormwind Paladin". I might be reading into it too much.
    As it is like since Legion at least?

  5. #66685
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    As it is like since Legion at least?
    I don't recall Anduin ever being called "Stormwind Paladin" in Legion. Do you know where this is at?
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
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  6. #66686
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    As it is like since Legion at least?
    The first time I remember seeing it was in WoD actually, might have been the entire thing, or just the 6.2 patch with retroactive effect.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #66687
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The first time I remember seeing it was in WoD actually, might have been the entire thing, or just the 6.2 patch with retroactive effect.
    I feel like you both missed the point I was trying to make.
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  8. #66688
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Simply not having Tyrande be fazed by Nathanos could work too I suppose. If his monologue is instead framed more as him trying to goad her into killing him, or generally reverting to be the person everyone knows him as. Would possibly feed een better into the tragedy if he gets more and more desperate to elicit a reaction from Tyrande by continuing his spiel.
    When has Tyrande not been fazed by anything? Like, ever? They always make her an impulsive hot-head.

  9. #66689
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    I don't recall Anduin ever being called "Stormwind Paladin" in Legion. Do you know where this is at?
    Oh, you talking about that. Nope, i dont think that Anduin ever called paladin. But for info - we have not seen him as random dude like this time.
    And yes, he is wearing plate armor, use 2h sword and use the Light. He is a paladin by gameplay.
    Paladins are priests in plate, so i dont see problem with that.
    But just for arguing that comes after - npc are not players and not restricted with classes like us.
    Like you know, all important NPC's ingame

  10. #66690
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Anyone notice while testing the Maw in the quest The Path to Salvation if another player is on that quest they have the same NPCs following you but have generic names. Jaina was "Kul Tiran Mage", I forgot what Baine was but I swear I saw Anduin's named "Stormwind Paladin". I might be reading into it too much.
    Sounds like a bug tbh, that simply didn't swap the named models for a generic one.

    Otherwise, Sondrelk is right, started in Legion with bodyguards.

  11. #66691
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Hopefully in future expansion the writers lean more towards having hte character be as insignificant as possible in the early game before getting renown over time. Not to the level where noone knows who we are, but rather more that the people we interract with don't.
    That probably works better when you aren't the guy that just beat the Burning Legion. Somebody with the kind of achievements the player character has does not get to be a nobody anymore.

    Very much a real problem for real world celebrities as well, who often have a hard time getting any kind of real privacy.
    Last edited by huth; 2020-11-13 at 08:56 PM.

  12. #66692
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Seems to be a common bug if the server is too laggy.
    Might be, the "trigger" for it seems to be weird too. I saw the cinematic come up when he still had like 10% health, other times the lag kept him alive at 1% for well over a few minutes before the cinematic playing.

    The latter was pretty fun. Lot of "WHY WON'T YOU JUST DIE" from people.

  13. #66693
    Why should Tyrande not kill Nathanos? She got the answer to the question and then he needed to die, of course. She can't just let him live and carry on. So what if he goes to 'his Lady', if 'his lady' wants she can always just come and get him anyway and now he at least stopped talking.
    I love Nathanos as a character, but letting him live would have made no sense whatsoever.
    Maybe they put him in the Maw and we can decide if we rescue him or not at some point ^^

  14. #66694
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Why should Tyrande not kill Nathanos? She got the answer to the question and then he needed to die, of course. She can't just let him live and carry on. So what if he goes to 'his Lady', if 'his lady' wants she can always just come and get him anyway and now he at least stopped talking.
    I love Nathanos as a character, but letting him live would have made no sense whatsoever.
    Maybe they put him in the Maw and we can decide if we rescue him or not at some point ^^
    The problem is how the cinematic portrays it. Nathanos is still his same glib villainous self despite recent events implying a more tragic one. Tyrande not getting a fully satisfactory kill is expected, but they didn't even really give the players a satisfactory kill either.

    I have mentioned before, but what the cinematic really needed was that hint of tragedy for Nathanos. He dies for a meaningless cause as the one he loved has abandoned him and he is left with nothing. Him staying in the Marris stead and the questline to kill him implies he is actively searching for death, but the cinematic didn't really play it like the tragedy it really should have been, but rather a somewhat triumphant one as he gets seemingly everything he wants
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #66695
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Why should Tyrande not kill Nathanos? She got the answer to the question and then he needed to die, of course. She can't just let him live and carry on. So what if he goes to 'his Lady', if 'his lady' wants she can always just come and get him anyway and now he at least stopped talking.
    I love Nathanos as a character, but letting him live would have made no sense whatsoever.
    Maybe they put him in the Maw and we can decide if we rescue him or not at some point ^^
    I mean, if Sylvi wanted him, she would just take him with her to SL. But alas, he was yet another persona ditched by her. He taunted Tyrande hard, and Night Warrior made her an avatar of vengeance, so ye, his death was 100% reasonable there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The problem is how the cinematic portrays it. Nathanos is still his same glib villainous self despite recent events implying a more tragic one. Tyrande not getting a fully satisfactory kill is expected, but they didn't even really give the players a satisfactory kill either.

    I have mentioned before, but what the cinematic really needed was that hint of tragedy for Nathanos. He dies for a meaningless cause as the one he loved has abandoned him and he is left with nothing. Him staying in the Marris stead and the questline to kill him implies he is actively searching for death, but the cinematic didn't really play it like the tragedy it really should have been, but rather a somewhat triumphant one as he gets seemingly everything he wants
    Maybe that's because it is not the end of him? He was data mined in Nathria strings, after all. And TBH, after being a cunt to everyone for so long, and having no discerning traits other than being an extension of Sylvi will, screw any sympathy towards him.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2020-11-13 at 10:05 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  16. #66696
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The problem is how the cinematic portrays it. Nathanos is still his same glib villainous self despite recent events implying a more tragic one. Tyrande not getting a fully satisfactory kill is expected, but they didn't even really give the players a satisfactory kill either.

    I have mentioned before, but what the cinematic really needed was that hint of tragedy for Nathanos. He dies for a meaningless cause as the one he loved has abandoned him and he is left with nothing. Him staying in the Marris stead and the questline to kill him implies he is actively searching for death, but the cinematic didn't really play it like the tragedy it really should have been, but rather a somewhat triumphant one as he gets seemingly everything he wants
    Hm, that is true, of course. The thing is, I personally don't see Nathanos getting any more tragic then his 'with him, of course' in that bitter tone. A person as bitter and cynical as him would be cursing himself for even showing that much and the only thing he could do to remedy it afterwards is lash out again, so no one notices.
    And I also think that the tragedy will come afterwards, because he thinks he's going to his 'lady', but after Sylvanas's Shadows Rising epilogue I'd not be so sure about that. And if Blizzard play it right, we might still get some pay off from it.

  17. #66697
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Maybe that's because it is not the end of him? He was data mined in Nathria strings, after all. And TBH, after being a cunt to everyone for so long, and having no discerning traits other than being an extension of Sylvi will, screw any sympathy towards him.
    He wasn't. He was just datamined to have a boss tag, and we've now seen that version of him (and punched it in the face).

  18. #66698
    It's pretty obvious that Sylvanas will betray Nathanos. Like, the writing is on the wall. It's been clear since 8.2.5, when Nathanos told Sylvanas he loved her, but Sylvanas didn't seem to give a shit.

    Plus, contrary to popular belief around here, Blizzard is not retarded. If a random armchair writer on MMO-Champion can notice that Tyrande did Nathanos a favour, Blizzard can too. The catch here is that Tyrande didn't do Nathanos a favour at all, as Sylvanas will probably sacrifice him as anima battery ala Ursoc. At which point, Nathanos will regret every choice he made in his miserable existence, and Tyrande's victory will be made blatant.

    See, it's all coming together.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-11-13 at 10:28 PM.

  19. #66699
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It's pretty obvious that Sylvanas will betray Nathanos. Like, the writing is on the wall. It's been clear since 8.2.5, when Nathanos told Sylvanas he loved her, but Sylvanas didn't seem to give a shit.

    Plus, contrary to popular belief around here, Blizzard is not retarded. If a random armchair writer on MMO-Champion can notice that Tyrande did Nathanos a favour, Blizzard can too. The catch here is that Tyrande didn't do Nathanos a favour at all, as Sylvanas will probably sacrifice him as anima battery ala Ursoc. At which point, Nathanos will regret every choice he made in his miserable existence, and Tyrande's victory will be made blatant.

    See, it's all coming together.
    Aw man. If this happens, it seems potentially likely that we might have Nathanos rooting us on and/or working with us a la Azshara. I'd rather just kill him repeatedly and be done with him as opposed to having Nathanos helping us out.

  20. #66700
    Is the Scourge invasion active yet? Haven't seen any ghouls.

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