1. #67521
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Orbis Terrarum
    Posts
    3,492
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    I don't trust at all the brokers and Ven'ari ... imo they'll betray us in the future, maybe they are the "Jailer's eyes"
    For spies they are getting fucked by him pretty hard in the Maw. And of course they are shady, they are basically Ethereals 2.0, and Venari has super obvious ulterior motives.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  2. #67522
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    For spies they are getting fucked by him pretty hard in the Maw. And of course they are shady, they are basically Ethereals 2.0, and Venari has super obvious ulterior motives.
    I could see Ve'nari being allied with the Jailer, it would certainly explain why she has such a seemingly easy tiem avoiding his minions, as well as why the other brokers who are clearly against the Jailer are so distrustful of her.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #67523
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Ontario, CAN
    Posts
    4,803
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    For spies they are getting fucked by him pretty hard in the Maw. And of course they are shady, they are basically Ethereals 2.0, and Venari has super obvious ulterior motives.
    I think the connection to the ethereals is intentional and the realm-hopping Brokers have void origins. I wouldnt be surprised if they are the hint for the next expac or something. They must fall into one of the cosmic forces, and they repeatedly state they are not from death.

  4. #67524
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Orbis Terrarum
    Posts
    3,492
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I could see Ve'nari being allied with the Jailer, it would certainly explain why she has such a seemingly easy tiem avoiding his minions, as well as why the other brokers who are clearly against the Jailer are so distrustful of her.
    Again, she helps us to much and sends us to kill his minions so I really doubt it. She has ez time hiding, because us players need a safe refuge and a friendly face (?) in the Maw.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2020-12-11 at 07:08 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  5. #67525
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I have no problem with the item level that M+ drops.
    My issue is doing a run for 1/6th of an item feels garbage for the effort it takes.
    I mean, sure, its the same with raids though.

    Only 3 items per boss isn't amazing either. Thats 30 items per full clear which is not a lot.

  6. #67526
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I mean, sure, its the same with raids though.

    Only 3 items per boss isn't amazing either. Thats 30 items per full clear which is not a lot.
    indeed. I thought it was the normal 1 per 5 still.3 per 20 is such a random number.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  7. #67527
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    indeed. I thought it was the normal 1 per 5 still.3 per 20 is such a random number.
    Probably gotten from making the drop chance lower from 25% chance per person to 12.5% per person, then rounding up.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #67528
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    42,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Probably gotten from making the drop chance lower from 25% chance per person to 12.5% per person, then rounding up.
    Should of kept bonus rolls in. While it would still feel bad, sometimes the lack of a drop can really burn you.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  9. #67529
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Should of kept bonus rolls in. While it would still feel bad, sometimes the lack of a drop can really burn you.
    While it would be nice to have a bonus roll for when there is a specific item you really want, whether for power or transmog, it is also true that the bonus roll was the cause of just as many, if not more disappointments than simply not having it.

    With the bonus roll you had 2 different chances per boss kill to be massively disappointed, now you just have one. Not to mention that what was possibly even worse was getting something wit hte bonus roll, and then for that something ot not be what you wanted.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #67530
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Probably gotten from making the drop chance lower from 25% chance per person to 12.5% per person, then rounding up.
    It's a 40% reduction. Not really all that random.

  11. #67531
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    While it would be nice to have a bonus roll for when there is a specific item you really want, whether for power or transmog, it is also true that the bonus roll was the cause of just as many, if not more disappointments than simply not having it.

    With the bonus roll you had 2 different chances per boss kill to be massively disappointed, now you just have one. Not to mention that what was possibly even worse was getting something wit hte bonus roll, and then for that something ot not be what you wanted.
    Yeah, bonus rolls were not a "woot Item" but more of a "wow, it wasn't worthless". I think the vault having 3 choices is a decent alternative to bonus rolls.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #67532
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Yeah, bonus rolls were not a "woot Item" but more of a "wow, it wasn't worthless". I think the vault having 3 choices is a decent alternative to bonus rolls.
    I guess the effect on gameplay is functionally the same too anyways. With bonus rolls oyu might run more dungeons or raid bosses than normal to spend bonus rolls, now you just run more dungeons and raid bosses than usual to have more chances at gear, the only real difference is that you no longer farm something that will likely only give you gear if you get lucky with the bonus roll, not to mention not having to search for the same dungeon or raid boss several times in a row.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So is this thread going to stay as the main general discussion thread, or is a different one being made? Cannot quite remember, and I am too lazy to check.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #67533
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    They wanted Anduin when they saw his Light powers. It has to be linked to this. Something about needing Light to go somewhere/do something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It must have something to do with Anduin wielding the Light, they did seem to put extra emphasis on him being able to channel it even in the Maw.
    Why are you so focused on Anduin? While he shielded us while we escaped via the Waystone, the thing that even made the Jailor show up was the Adventurer activating the Waystone.

    That's what the Jailor wants, to get out of the Maw - while he broke his physical chains that were seen in promo art and the "TV spot" trailer, something likely still ties him to the Maw, so he can't get out, unlike the Mawsworn (and I don't think it's as simple as having wings)
    Say, for whatever lore reason, he can only leave via the Waystone, but he cannot use it.

    He knows he can lure us back using the other prisoners we had to leave behind (not to mention the countless souls unjustly thrown into the Maw) and while Sylvanas is trying to break and/or turn Anduin anyway, the Jailor might piggyback inside Anduin, to get out of the Maw - something the Adventurer might not even realize for a while, until e.g. a 8.2 reveal.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  14. #67534
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Why are you so focused on Anduin? While he shielded us while we escaped via the Waystone, the thing that even made the Jailor show up was the Adventurer activating the Waystone.
    It's also ignoring entirely what happened in that scene. The Jailer easily crushed Anduin's Light dome after we left. He simply wasn't trying before. He wanted to see if the PC could actually leave the Maw.

    It's kinda ridiculous that nobody seems to pick up on this.

  15. #67535
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I could see Ve'nari being allied with the Jailer, it would certainly explain why she has such a seemingly easy tiem avoiding his minions, as well as why the other brokers who are clearly against the Jailer are so distrustful of her.
    I tend to oscillate between whether Venari is allied with the Jailer or the Arbiter (or possibly even the Arbiter herself). At this point, I think both are very much likely, but it comes down to motivations and what the Jailer's actual plan is.

    Pieces that lend credence to Arbiter theory:
    - Giving us transport networks and reasons to see more of the Maw (Jailer could do most soul research locally, Arbiter may want us to know all of the Maw)
    - Problems shown (Venari shows us issues happening within the Maw and how to work with them. The Jailer would want us to see the problems in all realms)
    - Methodology (The Jailer seems to be very direct, very intentional. Venari is a lot more subtle, more of a show rather than tell being)

    Pieces that lend credence to the Jailer theory:
    - Venari's refuge never being disturbed (Why is the waystone unprotected at this point and why is Venari safe right next to it?)
    - Powers sold (Lots of control for Torghast/Maw problems, not to mention a memory of the Jailer's "Third Eye")

    Pieces I could see going either way:
    - Stygia collecting (Jailer might want our essence on his power to figure out how we can escape, Arbiter might need Stygia herself to escape)
    - Knowledge of how the Eye of the Jailer works (Jailer would know this inherently, Arbiter may have some sort of link to Jailer which gives that knowledge)
    - The Soul Catcher (Jailer might be studying how the souls leave with us to learn how to remove them, Arbiter may actually care about the tormented souls)
    - Knowledge of where specific souls are (How would a broker know what specific missing Baron we want?)
    - Distrust of the Runecarver (If he is the Primus, Jailer wouldn't want us to trust him. Arbiter may not fully understand what all is in Torghast)
    - Brokers looking for Venari in Oribos (No matter who Venari is working with, the other side would want it shut down)

  16. #67536
    My money is her showing up in the final raid with a small lore blurb on why we're fighting her that doesn't influence the narrative in any way.

  17. #67537
    Well, i don't know about Ve'nari in particular... but i don't think the Brokers have ever been mortal.

  18. #67538
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    My money is her showing up in the final raid with a small lore blurb on why we're fighting her that doesn't influence the narrative in any way.
    Yeah that sounds the most likely, either that or in 9.2 or something. It has to be after the Maw is no longer massively relevant, similar to how players are not really supposed to bat an eye that Nathanos is still barking orders at you in Zuldazar even after Sylvanas has been outed killing Saurfang.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Why are you so focused on Anduin? While he shielded us while we escaped via the Waystone, the thing that even made the Jailor show up was the Adventurer activating the Waystone.

    That's what the Jailor wants, to get out of the Maw - while he broke his physical chains that were seen in promo art and the "TV spot" trailer, something likely still ties him to the Maw, so he can't get out, unlike the Mawsworn (and I don't think it's as simple as having wings)
    Say, for whatever lore reason, he can only leave via the Waystone, but he cannot use it.

    He knows he can lure us back using the other prisoners we had to leave behind (not to mention the countless souls unjustly thrown into the Maw) and while Sylvanas is trying to break and/or turn Anduin anyway, the Jailor might piggyback inside Anduin, to get out of the Maw - something the Adventurer might not even realize for a while, until e.g. a 8.2 reveal.
    It's stil a case where the Jailer seems ot take an interest in Anduin specifically, and the only thing Anduin really did of note during the time we escaped was channel teh Light, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Anduin being able to summon the Light in the Maw is somehow special.

    Also, what Anduin did or didnt do with the Light is irrelevant really, until someone can point to a different something he did during that cutscene that could realistically be why the Jailer wants to turn him then his bond to the Light is the most likely suspect.

    If the Jailer wanted something specific out of the Waystone then surely he would have gotten it already, we have saved half of the people that tried to leave with us and are about to rescue the third, I fail to see why Anduin out of the four is somehow the only one that the Jailer wants to use as a trojan horse or whatever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, i don't know about Ve'nari in particular... but i don't think the Brokers have ever been mortal.
    Their similarity to the custodians in Oribos has to be somehow linked. I find it hard to believe Blizzard designed two sets of supposedly different NPCs that both have essentially the same base appearance of pure anima in a seemingly robotic frame.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #67539
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's stil a case where the Jailer seems ot take an interest in Anduin specifically, and the only thing Anduin really did of note during the time we escaped was channel teh Light, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Anduin being able to summon the Light in the Maw is somehow special.

    Also, what Anduin did or didnt do with the Light is irrelevant really, until someone can point to a different something he did during that cutscene that could realistically be why the Jailer wants to turn him then his bond to the Light is the most likely suspect.
    Why are you assuming it is about Anduin at all? He should already know about Anduin's capabilities. The PC and their ability to interact with the stone are new and should be of interest to him.

    What Anduin did with the Light is indeed irrelevant... because the scene wasn't about Anduin and the Jailer was shown to casually wave his protection away once the actual matter of interest was resolved.

  20. #67540
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Why are you assuming it is about Anduin at all? He should already know about Anduin's capabilities. The PC and their ability to interact with the stone are new and should be of interest to him.

    What Anduin did with the Light is indeed irrelevant... because the scene wasn't about Anduin and the Jailer was shown to casually wave his protection away once the actual matter of interest was resolved.
    Jailer notices we are about to manage to leave using the waystone.
    Anduin uses the light.
    We escape alone.
    Jailer is intrigued.
    Jailer captures everyone.
    Jailer puts special emphasis on Anduin.
    Nothing much happens with the other people we save.

    Something is clearly different about Anduin, and given the way the scene was framed I cannot imagine anything other than the Jailer is intrigued by his ability to use the light. He doesnt really put extra seccurity around the waystone unless we assume the theory of Ve'nari working with the Jailer to be correct, and nothing much has happened when we saved the other important prisoners.

    I don't doubt that "mere mortals" using the waystone isnt why he came over, but he clearly saw something about Anduin that warranted special attention, and nothing about the scene that he does sticks out except using the Light, which makes me assume it is something exceptional.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •