9.0 General Discussion

[ExiHext]

From the little I've read, seems some dataminers who've had acess to alpha and its already not looking good. If this keeps up then i'll probably skip this expansion, I played bfa for the first raid tier and stopped. If the classes by chance are still the same S***show then no thanks.

How are dataminers able to datamine, if there is no alpha server yet? Do you suggest they hacked into Blizzard hq?
And even IF someone was able to grab some data, who guarantees that it is complete and not only fragments or old builds? This all makes no sense, sry.

[Nathanyel]

Wow retail won't have been doing well at all. That's absolutely no surprise though, even looking at my friendslist and everyone quit by 8.1. 8.3 brought a few people back but they're not really enjoying it.

Entirely anecdotal. My friendlist is as populated as ever with people playing Retail.

[George Costanza]

https://twitter.com/nite_moogle/stat...29935529496576

:thinking:

[Nathanyel]

Still means nothing in regard to a Beta.

[matrix123mko]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bellurar made video where his "sources" give 100% info that Alpha is in terrible state.

I love when people quote these youtubers.

[George Costanza]

Still means nothing in regard to a Beta.

It means it should be close.

[FlubberPuddy]

I have some concerns over the new player experience.

New starting zone - Yeh thats fancy no qualms with that.
Forced(?) BFA leveling - Concerns.

So if we look at this from a new player perspective they are told and advertised that wow is a massive multiplayer online game with 15 years or so behind it and numerous expansions. We finish the starting zone (and we probably understand its a starting zone if were familiar with mmo's before) and then the whole world is suppose to open up to us and we can explore the vast world of... zuldazar or kultiras?

Now don't get me wrong I agree with having a cohesive story being good. However, would it not be possible to give the same option to new players as veterans where they can do whatever they want while still making it clear that what they're doing is out dated? You can default to BFA and put a note there to explain that by doing said content you would be the most upto date with story elements while still giving the option to fuck around in outlands for whatever reason a new player may have (Oh look sparkly space rock). I feel limiting it like this is taking a lot of the charm of wow away from a new player experience which is something most people are told to cherish cos that magic is lost soon after.

It's better to funnel new players into one area rather than have them spread out and not know what the fuck is going on.

Source: Have a friend that just recently started the game, is a lv 40+ hunter, and they comment on "nobody talks to you" / "there's barely anyone around" and wants to do the things that they hear their friends doing such as looking for alpacas or flying around etc.

They don't know that the content they're playing through is hella old, but once they find out it makes sense why you see barely anyone in old areas.

If new players are all funneled into one area then that makes it feel more lively and more people are on par with others in the area.

I mean if you think about it, the general chat of most current patch zones are way more lively than old ones. You barely see people chit chatting in the general zones of drustvar or stormsong but you'll see many more in uldum/vale.

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Stop using a veteran perspective for a new player. They don't have it. Even thinks like opening up the inspect window can seem confusing.

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It means it should be close.

Well that and the recent book preview. They're obviously starting the gears towards building shadowlands hype. And ofc it happens after the world first race is pretty much over

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Starting to feel ready for the Alpha to begin and start teh hypetrain again, i had a lot of fun in this thread in the leadup ot Blizzcon, and i look forward to being able to speculate properly once models show up.

Same, these speculation threads are like a haven to the rest of the website where people pretty much just wanna complain.

I hope the first drop of SL alpha has a bunch of new customizations/models showing. I wanna know for instance what the other pieces of armor look for the covenants, we've only seen Plate I believe.

[Nixl]

It's better to funnel new players into one area rather than have them spread out and not know what the fuck is going on.

Source: Have a friend that just recently started the game, is a lv 40+ hunter, and they comment on "nobody talks to you" / "there's barely anyone around" and wants to do the things that they hear their friends doing such as looking for alpacas or flying around etc.

They don't know that the content they're playing through is hella old, but once they find out it makes sense why you see barely anyone in old areas.

If new players are all funneled into one area then that makes it feel more lively and more people are on par with others in the area.

I mean if you think about it, the general chat of most current patch zones are way more lively than old ones. You barely see people chit chatting in the general zones of drustvar or stormsong but you'll see many more in uldum/vale.

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Stop using a veteran perspective for a new player. They don't have it. Even thinks like opening up the inspect window can seem confusing.

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Well that is true sure. However, that's also from a different pov where the new player has a friend telling them info etc. I'm thinking from the perspective of someone who has no handholding and has to figure stuff out themselves. Which ofc could also be totally wrong I'll give you that.

[FlubberPuddy]

I'm thinking from the perspective of someone who has no handholding and has to figure stuff out themselves.

If we're going from a perspective of no hand-holding then the new player would have no idea they're playing old content/not being able to choose where they want to level. They will just accept this must be the way it is.

Because again, the only thing they would know is what they're experiencing at that moment. For instance most people wouldn't know there are two continents let alone how many zones there are when they first start the game.

And again, it can feel very overwhelming, especially when WoW doesn't do a good job of getting a new player acquainted to their systems. That's actually why they're adding in a new tutorial zone for 1-10 where all players must go through because it should do a much better job of looking forward to things to come.

Also, game has been out for a decade since cataclysm. Playing through the modern zones is a benefit for new players because there's been tons of quality of life since then within the expansions themselves. Think about things like the flight whistle and how much of a game changer that is. New players will be accustomed to that coming into the game.

And since leveling is going to change, the hope the 10-50 experience will more accustom them to what can be experienced in modern WoW. Lastly, the main benefit is still that all new players will be funneled into similar areas and thus a better "fresh player" community can form.

[Sondrelk]

Speaking of Shadowlands though. Now that we have had a tier without War/Titanforging, and instead having it be replaced by corruption.

How would people feel about that system replacing forging permanently?
The corruptions would obviously have to be tuned better to ensure there are no cases of keeping the item for longer than normal because it procced a good corruption, but given the beginning of an expansion is highly unbalanced anyways i think it could work.

Not completely sure on it, since i think the current corruption system works because it is the final patch of the expansion, so power creeping is okay. It might also get tedious over time to get the same corruptions across an entire expansion. Unless of course they change the corruptions each tier.

[Syegfryed]

Speaking of Shadowlands though. Now that we have had a tier without War/Titanforging, and instead having it be replaced by corruption.

How would people feel about that system replacing forging permanently?
The corruptions would obviously have to be tuned better to ensure there are no cases of keeping the item for longer than normal because it procced a good corruption, but given the beginning of an expansion is highly unbalanced anyways i think it could work.

Not completely sure on it, since i think the current corruption system works because it is the final patch of the expansion, so power creeping is okay. It might also get tedious over time to get the same corruptions across an entire expansion. Unless of course they change the corruptions each tier.

corrupted for me, is way better than war and titanforge by miles, i love the feeling of "al right, i archive the cap ilv, there is no way up, i can focus on other things now, not just mindless trying to get a forge and be up ahead, other people will stay in the same lv as i, everyone can be even, if i want to go foward, i can try to farm the right corruption that is fine for me, like i said, i like the feeling of "done", to i dunno, farm mounts/mog, up some other characters, play a bit in rbgs, they just need to tune things

it would be awesome this expansion if we didn't had to deal with already two boring shit band-aid mechanics as with azerite armor and essences

[Gorsameth]

Speaking of Shadowlands though. Now that we have had a tier without War/Titanforging, and instead having it be replaced by corruption.

How would people feel about that system replacing forging permanently?
The corruptions would obviously have to be tuned better to ensure there are no cases of keeping the item for longer than normal because it procced a good corruption, but given the beginning of an expansion is highly unbalanced anyways i think it could work.

Not completely sure on it, since i think the current corruption system works because it is the final patch of the expansion, so power creeping is okay. It might also get tedious over time to get the same corruptions across an entire expansion. Unless of course they change the corruptions each tier.

Corruption is garbage, and no that doesn't mean Titanforging should come back. Both systems can be garbage and neither should be in the game.

[Sondrelk]

Corruption is garbage, and no that doesn't mean Titanforging should come back. Both systems can be garbage and neither should be in the game.

Assuming we have to have one of them.
Titanforging is pretty boring because it is just a straight upgrade that always means your ilvl means little, as even dedicated HC raiders like myself will get to Mythic ilvl eventually.
Corruption is a system that rewards making the game more difficult for yourself. Meaning that progression raiders can always put on just that tiny bit extra corruption gear, making the fight more difficutl for the individual player, but maybe able to eke out that final drop of DPS.

[Gorsameth]

Assuming we have to have one of them.
Titanforging is pretty boring because it is just a straight upgrade that always means your ilvl means little, as even dedicated HC raiders like myself will get to Mythic ilvl eventually.
Corruption is a system that rewards making the game more difficult for yourself. Meaning that progression raiders can always put on just that tiny bit extra corruption gear, making the fight more difficutl for the individual player, but maybe able to eke out that final drop of DPS.

No, we don't need to have one of them.
This is not a FPTP elections, we don't have to pick the lesser evil.

[FlubberPuddy]

corrupted for me, is way better than war and titanforge by miles, i love the feeling of "al right, i archive the cap ilv, there is no way up, i can focus on other things now, not just mindless trying to get a forge and be up ahead, other people will stay in the same lv as i, everyone can be even, if i want to go foward, i can try to farm the right corruption that is fine for me, like i said, i like the feeling of "done", to i dunno, farm mounts/mog, up some other characters, play a bit in rbgs, they just need to tune things

it would be awesome this expansion if we didn't had to deal with already two boring shit band-aid mechanics as with azerite armor and essences

Pretty much fully agree. Corruption is better than wf/tf. Plus it means less welfare geared people although stuff like carries and such still happen. But you can better be confident that if you see someone in mostly heroic gear that they were doing the appropriate level content when recruiting for groups.

I will say that m+ still gives some leeway as the current scaling they have now can push people to high ilvls much easier than through raiding itself, but still this system we have now is better overall.

I think though that while the corruption system is fun for now, it would feel much better if we had more control in obtaining corrupt gear and/or the corrupt effects. Right now it just being obtained through RNG or 1 guaranteed/week through the weekly chest is pretty lame.

[Sondrelk]

Pretty much fully agree. Corruption is better than wf/tf. Plus it means less welfare geared people although stuff like carries and such still happen. But you can better be confident that if you see someone in mostly heroic gear that they were doing the appropriate level content when recruiting for groups.

I will say that m+ still gives some leeway as the current scaling they have now can push people to high ilvls much easier than through raiding itself, but still this system we have now is better overall.

I think though that while the corruption system is fun for now, it would feel much better if we had more control in obtaining corrupt gear and/or the corrupt effects. Right now it just being obtained through RNG or 1 guaranteed/week through the weekly chest is pretty lame.

I feel the new weekly cache system the devs talked about for Shadowlands might be the answer.
From how they explained it it sounded deceptively simple, in that you get a choice in different items that you might have tried to search for, like getting to choose an item from the loot table of a boss you tried to bonus roll.

If we go by this maybe just have one of these items always be corrupted, making it a choice if you want to get the item or not. Maybe you get lucky and get a great corruption on the item you want. Maybe a different item has the perfect corruption and you have to choose between them. Or maybe the item you want is corrupted with a bad corruption and you have to cleanse it. No matter what it is more involved and interesting than just getting a random item that may or may not be the one you want, and quite likely does not have a good corruption anyways.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pretty much fully agree. Corruption is better than wf/tf. Plus it means less welfare geared people although stuff like carries and such still happen. But you can better be confident that if you see someone in mostly heroic gear that they were doing the appropriate level content when recruiting for groups.

I will say that m+ still gives some leeway as the current scaling they have now can push people to high ilvls much easier than through raiding itself, but still this system we have now is better overall.

I think though that while the corruption system is fun for now, it would feel much better if we had more control in obtaining corrupt gear and/or the corrupt effects. Right now it just being obtained through RNG or 1 guaranteed/week through the weekly chest is pretty lame.

Corruption isn't for me but thats because I don't care to watch having too much void power going in me. I'd rather it have something be randomly positive or just neutral. In fact I wish more weapons had these random effects that were common in vanilla(One little teeny weeny thing about Vuhnilla I.. sorta kinda like the idea of).

[Sondrelk]

Corruption isn't for me but thats because I don't care to watch having too much void power going in me. I'd rather it have something be randomly positive or just neutral. In fact I wish more weapons had these random effects that were common in vanilla(One little teeny weeny thing about Vuhnilla I.. sorta kinda like the idea of).

I feel liek that might be veering too close to that area of gearing where there is a single item that is good for your class, and you keep that item pretty much indefinitely until raw stats eventually overpower it a tier or two later.

Corruption meanwhile works better i find because it is more or less standardized, there are a few items that are better than other, but since the corruption you need is effectively randomly spread across all items in the game you can always hit upon another one that can replace it. This combined with the self-nerf that is negative corruption effects mean that players can add play at the level they are comfortable at without feeling like they are making it too complicated for themselves.

[Nixl]

They mentioned that corruption while it is a lot more varied it is more common than wf/tf so you'll get to balance it and have many option. I'm a bit skeptical of that, it may be statistically more common but for a single person its barely more common. Since they stuck with so many variations they should have probably just gone all out and made every piece corrupt and rebalanced corruption/corruption resistance. Though that would push people even further down to simming cos its not clear what piece is better than the other.

[xpose]

Corruption is just a means to wean people off the titanforging tit instead of having people go cold turkey.