9.0 General Discussion

[Eurhetemec]

First if the new talent system improved the game, then why have the last two expansions both added temporary new talent system additions? Because that's all legendarys, artifact, Azerite and essence systems are.

ROFL. People just claim Azerite and those other systems are "Whatever is convenient for my terrible, ill-supported argument". You're claiming they're "talents", another guy is claiming they're a replacement for the pruned abilities, another still is claiming they're just a replacement for tier armour.

And that harks to you vocal minority, if it was a minority then why have they started slowly reverting? those new talent like systems are to add back what was lossed under the new system and in SL there moving back to class based and not spec based in there Design out look.

If it was really a minority why would they do that?

That's obviously not what they're doing, so... not a very convincing argument.

As for count them in two hands, well yea there's 12 classes so there is a few who can count them on two hands. But being serious this hand a drematic effect on any class that used duel wield and who's attraction was being fast paced. And if that complaint was also a minority then why hae the dedicated so much time over bfa tweeking and trying to find a compromise. A compromise they won't find.

If you're claiming all classes are significantly impacted by the GCD changes? Because if so I'm not even talking to you anymore. That's beyond ludicrous into "straight-up lies which everyone including the person saying it knows are lies".

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I hella doubt that.

If anything they are gonna either reduce or remove the xp boost.

Yeah. Heirlooms are stuck. They can't easily get rid of them because people invested a lot of time and effort in getting them, especially some of the more casual players, and they're involved with achievements and so on. And they serve a useful function in ensuring people leveling up have solid gear, when it is possible RNG to otherwise screw you, especially if you're leveling primarily by dungeons or PvP.

But it does seem quite likely they'll remove or massively nerf the XP boost, because if leveling is 70% shorter than now, it won't be needed.

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You may have plenty to do on one character in BfA but if the tasks to do plus your class suck there no fun attached to it.

That was an issue in TBC. That was in an issue Vanilla, FFS. Plenty of classes/specs sucked in TBC. And most of the max-level stuff was more tedious than the BfA stuff. I'm glad you're enjoying Classic, but I strongly suspect that if they added TBC to Classic, people at max level would be having significantly less fun.

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And you're free to do so, he's still got a direct line for a fact.

I mean, Hamsters, you usually make really reasonable posts, but you're confusing an ill-supported opinion for a fact here. He may well have a source, probably someone on one of the non-core teams, like the web developers, but that's very different from a "direct line".

[Yarathir]

And you're free to do so, he's still got a direct line for a fact.

So what does 'fact' mean, again?

[jzhbee]

here is popular "influencer" preach during 6.3



https://youtu.be/g75YgZL-HuI?t=1483

"tbc was my favorite expansion, people really didnt have alts, you had so much to do, youd log on to your main and have so much extra things to do"

"theres so much focus on on fast ways of gearing up other characters instead of ways to love our mains"

then proceeds to trash BFA all xpac for having too much to do on 1 char

LUL

again if blizzard is listening to these peoples feedback instead of what people are actually playing by their metrics it will kill their product

You're saying this as if it's a binary "You have too much to do on one character/you have too little". BFA is trash for a multitude of reasons. But the upkeep that was added with the AP system in Legion is generally what people are upset with. Incremental increase that doesn't feel like it matters in the long run, but feels required as a mythic raider.

[Newname1234567890]

Let’s just enjoy each other’s Company, and debate which covenant is the best and why it’s NOT Venthyr

Necrolords, for having the silliest name

[Dracullus]

I watch Preach more or less regular since MoP, I think only time he was really happy during launch of expac was WoD. It's not surprising, if WoD had 4th raid it would be perfect expansion for cutting edge raiders.

[arandomuser]

You're saying this as if it's a binary "You have too much to do on one character/you have too little". BFA is trash for a multitude of reasons. But the upkeep that was added with the AP system in Legion is generally what people are upset with. Incremental increase that doesn't feel like it matters in the long run, but feels required as a mythic raider.

You are rihgt, i think they can find a balance like what they talk about in shadowlands with the "4th wall" once you do a thing on a main its easier on alts, i like that with echoes for essences, and i think the ap grind once u get past 80 it stil helps you in power but its very incremental. But i am worried about blizzard listening to the "corruption and AP sucks" where they will pivot and go back to wod which alot of people forgot how boring it was.

[matrix123mko]

I wish Shadowlands/WoW got the D4 Quarterly update Treatmentttttttt

That would be faster than Starcraft 2 content patches.

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here is popular "influencer" preach during 6.3



https://youtu.be/g75YgZL-HuI?t=1483

"tbc was my favorite expansion, people really didnt have alts, you had so much to do, youd log on to your main and have so much extra things to do"

"theres so much focus on on fast ways of gearing up other characters instead of ways to love our mains"

then proceeds to trash BFA all xpac for having too much to do on 1 char

LUL

again if blizzard is listening to these peoples feedback instead of what people are actually playing by their metrics it will kill their product

Not really. Most of people blindly follow influencers so the way to go is to run in circles changing this game to appease influencer's desires of the day.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You are rihgt, i think they can find a balance like what they talk about in shadowlands with the "4th wall" once you do a thing on a main its easier on alts, i like that with echoes for essences, and i think the ap grind once u get past 80 it stil helps you in power but its very incremental. But i am worried about blizzard listening to the "corruption and AP sucks" where they will pivot and go back to wod which alot of people forgot how boring it was.

in a post AP Wow world, there woulds till be an endgame content issue anyways, its finite or at least very quick to be gone(World content I'm talking). Not a lot of world content to do once wqs are done once(Heck sometimes zones may only have one or two on bad days).

[Nyel]

That was an issue in TBC. That was in an issue Vanilla, FFS. Plenty of classes/specs sucked in TBC. And most of the max-level stuff was more tedious than the BfA stuff. I'm glad you're enjoying Classic, but I strongly suspect that if they added TBC to Classic, people at max level would be having significantly less fun.

Was it? As I said, playing Classic at the moment. And even Paladin which is said to be the most tedious and dullest class to level. And I enjoy it. I couldn't level one more character in BfA at this point.

Maybe I enjoy it more because I know the tasks I do are worth it. In BfA that's not the case (for me).

Btw, for me the peak of WoW was TBC.

[Eldarius]

here is popular "influencer" preach during 6.3



https://youtu.be/g75YgZL-HuI?t=1483

"tbc was my favorite expansion, people really didnt have alts, you had so much to do, youd log on to your main and have so much extra things to do"

"theres so much focus on on fast ways of gearing up other characters instead of ways to love our mains"

then proceeds to trash BFA all xpac for having too much to do on 1 char

LUL

again if blizzard is listening to these peoples feedback instead of what people are actually playing by their metrics it will kill their product

You do realise that when he spoke about 6.3 that was literally years ago and humans have the ability to change opinions overtime?

I still agree with his 6.3 video - TBC was a great time for logging in to the game and having plenty of content to do

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You do realise that when he spoke about 6.3 that was literally years ago and humans have the ability to change opinions overtime?

I still agree with his 6.3 video - TBC was a great time for logging in to the game and having plenty of content to do

....No, TBC still had yet to make most of the classes if not all at least not crap at most pve environments.

[Nyel]

....No, TBC still had yet to make most of the classes if not all at least not crap at most pve environments.

It didn't matter. And they fleshed out every class in TBC. Were all specs viable? No. Who cared? Paladins could finally tank, Druids were more than just healers and Shamans became very good as well.

Making every class basically the same without any individuality is one of BfA's biggest problems.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

You are rihgt, i think they can find a balance like what they talk about in shadowlands with the "4th wall" once you do a thing on a main its easier on alts, i like that with echoes for essences, and i think the ap grind once u get past 80 it stil helps you in power but its very incremental. But i am worried about blizzard listening to the "corruption and AP sucks" where they will pivot and go back to wod which alot of people forgot how boring it was.

Every raider i know in the top <30(and i know many) including me and my guild would take wod on any given day over the casino + grind legion and bfa are/was

[Defend]

To anyone still doubting that Towelliee's got a direct line: He had a title saying "100 reasons to WoW" hours before the 100% came out.

Which to me confirms nothing until April. God I hope it's April 1st or 2nd, rather than 20th... T.T

To be fair many of the data mining discord’s also knew about the buff hours before it came out

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here is popular "influencer" preach during 6.3



https://youtu.be/g75YgZL-HuI?t=1483

"tbc was my favorite expansion, people really didnt have alts, you had so much to do, youd log on to your main and have so much extra things to do"

"theres so much focus on on fast ways of gearing up other characters instead of ways to love our mains"

then proceeds to trash BFA all xpac for having too much to do on 1 char

LUL

again if blizzard is listening to these peoples feedback instead of what people are actually playing by their metrics it will kill their product

It’s almost like people’s tastes can change in 5 years; also, if there are very few ways to “love your main” and enjoy playing them, in addition to not possibly being able to catch up on an alt without redoing a horrendous grind; until the past hotfix that is, that’s an issue. When you don’t have the option to play an alt really as well as having not a ton to do at max level that is where the issue lies. ALSO, there’s a difference between having grinds to do when you log in like essences and AP and non rewarding gear like Azerite and things you can do at your own pace for rewards you want to chase after such as Netherwing or Cloud Serpent in MoP

[Hitei]

It didn't matter. And they fleshed out every class in TBC. Were all specs viable? No. Who cared? Paladins could finally tank, Druids were more than just healers and Shamans became very good as well.

Making every class basically the same without any individuality is one of BfA's biggest problems.

No, that was one of MoP's biggest problems.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So individuality is somehow meaning being able to be viable in all forms of content? Oh fck off with that nonsense. People might of not cared back then but thats because people were focused more on Shinys then worrying about viability. It was a legit problem and it has nothing to do with "individuality"

[Nyel]

No, that was one of MoP's biggest problems.

It's gotten worse over the years, it's still one of the problems Legion had and BfA has. I hope Shadowlands goes another way but I don't hold my breath. I'd rather be a Shadow Priest with HP/MP regen and deal 15% less damage than just one DPS like every other in game. But that might be my personal preference.

[Hitei]

It's gotten worse over the years, it's still one of the problems Legion had and BfA has. I hope Shadowlands goes another way but I don't hold my breath.

It hasn't. MoP was 100% the worst time in the game for homogenization and it has been steadily improved since then.

[jzhbee]

It hasn't. MoP was 100% the worst time in the game for homogenization and it has been steadily improved since then.

People keep parroting the idea that "Because specs have a similar Filler/Spender design, that means every class plays the same."

Despite, you know, classes at launch having a similar "spend mana til you're dry" design, or "press the button on CD" design.

[Nyel]

It hasn't. MoP was 100% the worst time in the game for homogenization and it has been steadily improved since then.

Steadily improved while class design steadily got worse during the same time. They need to find the right balance which wasn't the case for neither Legion nor BfA. I'm interested to see what they do in Shadowlands and if they're aware of the fundamental problems.