9.0 General Discussion

[EbaumsTipster]

I wonder the behind-the-scenes reason why De Other Side got shafted to include Gnome and Broker stuff.

[Avikur]

I haven't got alpha access :-( but from what I've read and seen Torghast is going to be a large part of the end game experience, it looks like some classes will have a better time in there than others, how do you think hunters will do? They have good utility (slows, interrupts, snares etc) and a pet to tank so I'd imagine they would be one of the better classes?

[huth]

I haven't got alpha access :-( but from what I've read and seen Torghast is going to be a large part of the end game experience, it looks like some classes will have a better time in there than others, how do you think hunters will do? They have good utility (slows, interrupts, snares etc) and a pet to tank so I'd imagine they would be one of the better classes?

A lot will depend on Anima Powers. So to early to tell.

[gunner_recall]

I wonder the behind-the-scenes reason why De Other Side got shafted to include Gnome and Broker stuff.

Because Blizz does what they want.

[Syegfryed]

It doesn't matter because you don't care about it. For people who like a race, having that consistently portrayed as a joke, as a sandbag dummy race, that exists just to make others look stronger and wiser, does matter. And no, some halfassed sets don't make that less ridiculous. But what do I expect from people who think a race winning back their own lands (as a footnote, mind you) is some kind of major win that should be held up and celebrated as some sort of example of how the race is treated well.

what im saying is any "trials", hardship and suffering the night elves have passed was already endured for other races and sometimes WAY WORSE

Saurfang had been a sentimental guy for a while. Not sure where you were to miss his whole spiel about not eating pork.

he become a senile suicidal hypocrite with identity crisis that have to be taught about honor and what the horde is from a human boy, i think it is way worse than tyrande learning something from Varian, since unlike her he actually was a fighter who understand war.

the only barely important orc left, now we are stuck with Eitrigg, another senile orc, and Thrall who don't have balls anymore

And no Orcs were genocided in MoP and WoD. In MoP, Garrosh was trying to genocide all non-Orcs and all his loyalists got killed because they were helping him try to genocide all non-Orcs.

tons of orcs died, various named npcs and important npcs like Nazgrin, all butchered, last patch was all about killing orcs in their own home city while YOU AS A ORC is forced to do it so, and since then, orcs don't have any compensation from being butchered and made up villains to alliance kill

be gladly just the city was nuked and you didn't went there in a raid to kill everyone.

WoD was pretty much the same, and it was basically a theme park expansion where you got to see long-dead orc chieftains and warlords. There were, however, characters from the main universe who died to play a role in that expansion. Uhh, the names escape me at the moment.. oh yeah, Maraad and Taylor.

wod was the entire expansion about killing orcs and pissing on the old horde heroes, the entire orc population was either butchered or corrupted then butchered, and even after that the draenei hunt then down to only remain one little clan.

You want "horde" characters from the main universe die? who? no one left, only thrall did something

And that idea is born from ignorance.

or because is what i see, elves don't have thick skin, since vanilla leaders are still there, little have changed from race until now, Night elves got focus and lore in cataclysm and legion pretty fine, more than most races, yet you guys act like you had nothing and is the end of the world to not get compensation immediately(when other races are still waiting...) even knowing shadowlands will focus on night elves

i remind you, the same happened to the forsaken, and they don't even have leaders or a place anymore, at least night elves have hyjal, feralas, ashenvale, they can prob hang out in broken isles, tyrande and malfurion are still there, to me, still looks like people complaining with a full belly.

[Sondrelk]

I haven't got alpha access :-( but from what I've read and seen Torghast is going to be a large part of the end game experience, it looks like some classes will have a better time in there than others, how do you think hunters will do? They have good utility (slows, interrupts, snares etc) and a pet to tank so I'd imagine they would be one of the better classes?

What classes can do what at the beginning is mostly irrelevant, some might have an easier time getting started than others, but what will truly be the make or break point of Torghast for many will be the ease of creating a good and perhaps more importantly, fun setup.
The absolute worst case sceanrio is if classes like hunter only gets DPS increases and leech, compared to mages with their instablink and mirror images galore.

[Collected]

I haven't got alpha access :-( but from what I've read and seen Torghast is going to be a large part of the end game experience, it looks like some classes will have a better time in there than others, how do you think hunters will do? They have good utility (slows, interrupts, snares etc) and a pet to tank so I'd imagine they would be one of the better classes?

It's very early days. But keep in mind that the powers you get inside the tower are pretty crazy. The normal class balance rules may not apply in the tower once you've stacked lots of powers. As long as each class can have fun in there and progress at a reasonable rate... I'll be happy.

[Sondrelk]

what im saying is any "trials", hardship and suffering the night elves have passed was already endured for other races and sometimes WAY WORSE


he become a senile suicidal hypocrite with identity crisis that have to be taught about honor and what the horde is from a human boy, i think it is way worse than tyrande learning something from Varian, since unlike her he actually was a fighter who understand war.

the only barely important orc left, now we are stuck with Eitrigg, another senile orc, and Thrall who don't have balls anymore



tons of orcs died, various named npcs and important npcs like Nazgrin, all butchered, last patch was all about killing orcs in their own home city while YOU AS A ORC is forced to do it so, and since then, orcs don't have any compensation from being butchered and made up villains to alliance kill

be gladly just the city was nuked and you didn't went there in a raid to kill everyone.



wod was the entire expansion about killing orcs and pissing on the old horde heroes, the entire orc population was either butchered or corrupted then butchered, and even after that the draenei hunt then down to only remain one little clan.

You want "horde" characters from the main universe die? who? no one left, only thrall did something


or because is what i see, elves don't have thick skin, since vanilla leaders are still there, little have changed from race until now, Night elves got focus and lore in cataclysm and legion pretty fine, more than most races, yet you guys act like you had nothing and is the end of the world to not get compensation immediately(when other races are still waiting...) even knowing shadowlands will focus on night elves

i remind you, the same happened to the forsaken, and they don't even have leaders or a place anymore, at least night elves have hyjal, feralas, ashenvale, they can prob hang out in broken isles, tyrande and malfurion are still there, to me, still looks like people complaining with a full belly.

The problem for Nelves is more that they do get exposure, but like with the Horde and being good, they rarely get good exposure.
Compare for instance with the Draenei, similar in the sense that they are often relegated to neutral questgivers and without a home. The Draenei however are pretty consistently shown as being competent at what they do, they have a well established faith in teh light that is used to give them good paladins and a rich backstory that is used to create stories that are interesting, both to others and for Draenei, like with Argus.

The Night elves meanwhile have a similar rich bbackstory, but instead of being shown why we should care about them they are near constantly being used as punching bags tp prop up others, or as was shown in the BfA pre-patch, as a plot device to further the Horde story, despite it obviously being a bigger deal to Night Elves who just lost their ancestral homes.

- - - Updated - - -

It's very early days. But keep in mind that the powers you get inside the tower are pretty crazy. The normal class balance rules may not apply in the tower once you've stacked lots of powers. As long as each class can have fun in there and progress at a reasonable rate... I'll be happy.

The fun aspect is definitely the most important part of Torghast. Ensuring a modicum of balance should be extremely easy considering there is no time limit. And since balance is not a likely issue the only question remaining is whether it will be fun enough that players look forward to doing the weekly run or whatever it ends up being.

[Syegfryed]

The problem for Nelves is more that they do get exposure, but like with the Horde and being good, they rarely get good exposure.
Compare for instance with the Draenei, similar in the sense that they are often relegated to neutral questgivers and without a home. The Draenei however are pretty consistently shown as being competent at what they do,

in doing nothing?

they have a well established faith in teh light that is used to give them good paladins and a rich backstory that is used to create stories that are interesting, both to others and for Draenei, like with Argus.

Dude, draeneis have literally nothing since TBC, they only got something in legion, and even there was less than what nelves got there
argus patch is more about turalyon, alleria and illidan(a nelf LOL) than Velen

Good to point this, a human became the leader of the draenei there

The Night elves meanwhile have a similar rich bbackstory, but instead of being shown why we should care about them they are near constantly being used as punching bags tp prop up others, or as was shown in the BfA pre-patch, as a plot device to further the Horde story, despite it obviously being a bigger deal to Night Elves who just lost their ancestral homes.

they did one time, horde is always the plot device to further the general history of being the villains

complaining so much about being "sandbags" that to this very day ashenvale was not out of their control, not even in Garrosh era

Forsaken lost their home too and their leaders, but do you see then complaining like is the end of the world? you don't, because again, elves always think everything they have is always too less and anything is a personal insult and should be immediately resolved

Like, guys, bfa just ended, and they already showed the NE will not be cool with that, and will be important in shadowlands(this already more than forsaken and other races will get) thinking the only way to compensate this "slap in the face" is murder everyone in the horde as retaliation, immediately after the end of the war and magically creating another teldrassil in the same area is just wishful thinking, we all know this shit take time, trolls only got their isles in cataclysm, worgen still don't have gilneas, and don't even mention gnomes, again, to me looks like complaining with a full belly.

[Yarou]

Heritage armos for Humans, Orcs, Trolls and Night elves will be available b4 9.0??

[EbaumsTipster]

Heritage armos for Humans, Orcs, Trolls and Night elves will be available b4 9.0??

Is that a question or a statement?

[Ersula]

The Night elves meanwhile have a similar rich bbackstory, but instead of being shown why we should care about them they are near constantly being used as punching bags tp prop up others, or as was shown in the BfA pre-patch, as a plot device to further the Horde story, despite it obviously being a bigger deal to Night Elves who just lost their ancestral homes.

Hyjal is the ancestral home to the Dark Troll subspecies. Silvermoon is the ancestral home to the Forest Trolls. And unlike high elves, it tracks that Teldrassil was equal retribution to a race of colonizers that have lived far longer than they deserved. 10,000 year olds? Disgusting.

[Sondrelk]

in doing nothing?



Dude, draeneis have literally nothing since TBC, they only got something in legion, and even there was less than what nelves got there
argus patch is more about turalyon, alleria and illidan(a nelf LOL) than Velen

Good to point this, a human became the leader of the draenei there


they did one time, horde is always the plot device to further the general history of being the villains

complaining so much about being "sandbags" that to this very day ashenvale was not out of their control, not even in Garrosh era

Forsaken lost their home too and their leaders, but do you see then complaining like is the end of the world? you don't, because again, elves always think everything they have is always too less and anything is a personal insult and should be immediately resolved

Like, guys, bfa just ended, and they already showed the NE will not be cool with that, and will be important in shadowlands(this already more than forsaken and other races will get) thinking the only way to compensate this "slap in the face" is murder everyone in the horde as retaliation, immediately after the end of the war and magically creating another teldrassil in the same area is just wishful thinking, we all know this shit take time, trolls only got their isles in cataclysm, worgen still don't have gilneas, and don't even mention gnomes, again, to me looks like complaining with a full belly.

Draenei get little, but what little they do get is good, the diametric opposite of Nelves who get a lot, but what they get is shit. This despite them in some ways having about the same level of relevance to the current story.


You bring up an apt comparision to Forsaken, but unlike with Nelves the Forsaken get to look competent, they lost their home and are now refugees, but they didnt lose their home just to assure the Alliance that this was a horrible mooment for the Alliance, and the expansion would thoroughly discuss what the siege meant for those poor Alliance that were there to see it.

That is the crucial difference here. The Forsaken get to do stuff, yes it is kinda morally ambigous most of the time but when we see them they do follow the description of them we are constantly told, they are not being contantly built up as amazing warriors only to have them fail most every military encounter we see them in just to boost the opposing side.

[Yarou]

Is that a question or a statement?

A question

[EbaumsTipster]

A question

I doubt it. Most likely will be Shadowlands patch content.

[Syegfryed]

Draenei get little, but what little they do get is good,

totally subjective, you are telling me the human becoming the draenei leader is somehow good, ok

the diametric opposite of Nelves who get a lot, but what they get is shit. This despite them in some ways having about the same level of relevance to the current story.

yeah, sure, always elves getting shit

You bring up an apt comparision to Forsaken, but unlike with Nelves the Forsaken get to look competent,

Are you joking? forsaken main and only strategy is always just blight things up or run away, Sylvanas runlikewind who speaks

they lost their home and are now refugees, but they didnt lose their home just to assure the Alliance that this was a horrible mooment for the Alliance

horrible moment for the alliance? the race got his own home nuked by his own crazy leader, poor poor alliance that had to see the evil horde doing their evil things with their own people

That is the crucial difference here. The Forsaken get to do stuff, yes it is kinda morally ambigous most of the time but when we see them they do follow the description of them we are constantly told, they are not being contantly built up as amazing warriors only to have them fail most every military encounter we see them in just to boost the opposing side.

i never saw or read anything about night elves being amazing warriors who can win against anyone, even with their power before the third war they got streamroled by the warsong,

they actually still being a force who can hold ashenvale and other strongholds, and push the horde even in azshara, without their powerboost is already impressive,

fucking hell, they actually having strenght to fight back in darkshore to be a warfront is already bananas after their losses, what more people want? i know, clean orgrimmar from the map, but sadly this isn't happening.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I wonder the behind-the-scenes reason why De Other Side got shafted to include Gnome and Broker stuff.

They couldn't think of any other boss ideas?
I guess Gnomes being in there means that other races can enter De Other Side, not just trolls

[Greyfang]

For those who were talking about the Aspirant sets having better tints than Warfront sets, we will be able to purchase the ensembles with Marks of Honor in SL. Sadly, this (ATM) does not include the Tier 2-3 appearances, so that sucks.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=314693/...r-in-shadowlan

[EbaumsTipster]

For those who were talking about the Aspirant sets having better tints than Warfront sets, we will be able to purchase the ensembles with Marks of Honor in SL. Sadly, this (ATM) does not include the Tier 2-3 appearances, so that sucks.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=314693/...r-in-shadowlan

There's no way that they won't include the glad sets.

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They couldn't think of any other boss ideas?
I guess Gnomes being in there means that other races can enter De Other Side, not just trolls

There's potential for there being some funky lore revelations there, but it feels more like somethings going on with gnomes tapping into De Other Side than anything. The most recent photo of it has a pretty technological area.

Maybe it's actually a different part of the Shadowlands altogether?

[LemonDemonGirl]

There's potential for there being some funky lore revelations there, but it feels more like somethings going on with gnomes tapping into De Other Side than anything. The most recent photo of it has a pretty technological area.

Maybe it's actually a different part of the Shadowlands altogether?

Well it was referred to as a 'pocket dimension'
at Blizzcon I think. Would make sense if it were just a small gateway to another part of the Shadowlands other than just Ardenweald

I feel like the problem is that the Troll Loa are basically seen as Wild Gods, too. That means they have to be crammed in the Wild Gods place, which is Ardenweald.

I much would've preferred a Loa/Troll type zone in the Shadowlands that might be some patch content or whatever.

That's true. Maybe they just didn't want to make a troll/Loa zone because BfA was heavily troll themed?

I know Bwonsamdi is considered (somehow) a Loa, but he just doesn't strike me as one. He seems like more of an almost independent Death God who just seems to favour trolls.
He's the odd man out. He's also not a beast God either, as he looks like a dead troll

And Ardenweald may have been the only zones they could get De Other Side to fit into. It's kind of unfortunate actually