9.0 General Discussion

[qwerty123456]

I need to ask.

Has anybody asked Blizzard whether they ever intend to implement names with apostrophes (for Trolls, Draenei, etc.) and surnames into the game yet? If even just on RP servers exclusively?

I was thinking of how annoying the naming thing was last night when I got N.U.T.Z. (mechanical squirrel hunter pet) on a mechagnome hunter I was going to level for the heritage armor. It keeps its name on tame but you can't use periods and stuff when you want to name a pet yourself. I was planning on making the starter mechano wolf's name B.O.L.T.Z. to go with the squirrel but you can't so I can either rename the squirrel to match a more normal named starter pet or wait until 110-120ish to find a mechanical pet with a more robotic name and even then none are really named like him they all mostly use numbers and shit.

[Edward Wu]

Apparently hearing that Shadowlands will be pretty brutal for Mythic raiders with so much busywork and re-farming required. I'm no where near a top player (barely Cutting Edge) but this has me worried a lot that even scrubs like me will be affected.

Preach did a video on it and he's positively depressed about it.

[Alanar]

Most of the vocal community will tell you it is covenant abilities.

So far... most classes and talents trees are things to worry about tbh.

It's on the mechanical side and not tuning, we are in for another borrowed power expansion where we keep filling holes with temporary system.
I think that is a bad disign in general, because some classes just flatout dont work without soulbinds/covenant. But the bandaids are showing atm and peolple on us forums noticed. It's a shitstorm as always.


pssst shadow priests

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So far... most classes and talents trees are things to worry about tbh.

It's on the mechanical side and not tuning, we are in for another borrowed power expansion where we keep filling holes with temporary system.
I think that is a bad disign in general, because some classes just flatout dont work without soulbinds/covenant. But the bandaids are showing atm and peolple on us forums noticed. It's a shitstorm as always.


pssst shadow priests

Its not really a shitstorm... outside of Shadow priests things aren't that dire, it would be much more noticeable and right now it isn't "shitstorm"

[Alanar]

Its not really a shitstorm... outside of Shadow priests things aren't that dire, it would be much more noticeable and right now it isn't "shitstorm"

Most classes have static cookie cutter builds and there is almost no room to switch or else the class just doesn't feel good or work at all.
That right there is a huge problem already and the lack of communication on that front is not sitting well with me when this is the time for big changes.

Shadow is the extreme case agree. But this just just an example. Shadow doesn't work when you dont pick the right build and on top of that almost everyone (looking at mmo/wowhead/offical forums) doesn't like Voidform.. we recently got Dp back, but boy are people upset with it, because of how it works and what blizzards vision is of how it should play or feel. Dk's and ret have some problems going on and suffer from same builds as well. Another example would be how they gave frost 2hand back while not thinking about the same problem we had with cata when duel wield will always be better because it allows for TWO runes. Zero effort to add or hear the feedback that people provide the moment people were able to test it. I have to say people have been providing good and enough feedback on the offical forums but .. things are pretty silent and people feel ignored, I mean it's not like we are a week in the alpha. You could say whats new? but this is the general vibe I get on the alpha and on the forums and chats.

Also the borrowed power arguments keep coming up and I get it.. it will start to lose value eventually, but the point is still true. Shadowlands had a chance to fix the underlaying mechanical problems so a class/spec will feel good and specially fun to play without needing to wait for the borrowed powers to start competing or even work at all. So yes.. for the people who care.. yea it's the start of a shitshow if you ask me.

Covenant abillities is a topic I don't realy want to dive in here, it's another challenge for blizard to make that feel good for everyone.. it's hard.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You keep talking about % of abilities. I don't think you can even grasp what's being discussed here.

No one gives a fuck about percentages or amount of damage done.

We care about flowing, functioning and fun classes AT THEIR BASE WITHOUT ANY BORROWED POWER TACKED ON. I don't think there's much discussion here to be had with you so I'll keep it short.

This is what the current talent trees + rental powers feel like for the majority of specs. You feel like you're completing a broken husk of a class through talents and borrowed power:

My only complaint with this great meme is all those options are useful. About half those tiers should have entirely useless and unrelated things like "10 piece chicken nugget" or "a telephone." Then it'd really capture modern talents.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh also no new Archaeology stuff in Shadowlands so we can officially declare that profession dead.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah that will convince Blizzard @_@

Oh also no new Archaeology stuff in Shadowlands so we can officially declare that profession dead.

They might find some use for it..instead of a profession.

[Cosmic Janitor]

My only complaint with this great meme is all those options are useful. About half those tiers should have entirely useless and unrelated things like "10 piece chicken nugget" or "a telephone." Then it'd really capture modern talents.

Dunno, there is a clear "you need this way more than that" theme going. Only thing I would disagree with is the horn, because unless you live in india windshield wipers are way more important, although the question is does "Windows" include the "Windshield"? :P
Some of them are also very poignant, like the first tier, where you are clearly fucked either way, since without the 3rd pedal you most likely can't event get the thing going, or the clearly better option of having at least 3 wheels (still not 4) over 2. As far as memes go I think this is actually fairly well made.

- - - Updated - - -

They might find some use for it..instead of a profession.

Let it die and become the soil for something else?

[rrayy]

Apparently hearing that Shadowlands will be pretty brutal for Mythic raiders with so much busywork and re-farming required. I'm no where near a top player (barely Cutting Edge) but this has me worried a lot that even scrubs like me will be affected.

Preach did a video on it and he's positively depressed about it.

Preach is irrelevant. YOu should not be influenced by one who trafficds in negativity to get clicks. Nobody should be taking that guy seriously.

[Hitei]

Most classes have static cookie cutter builds and there is almost no room to switch or else the class just doesn't feel good or work at all.
That right there is a huge problem already and the lack of communication on that front is not sitting well with me when this is the time for big changes.

Shadow is the extreme case agree. But this just just an example. Shadow doesn't work when you dont pick the right build and on top of that almost everyone (looking at mmo/wowhead/offical forums) doesn't like Voidform.. we recently got Dp back, but boy are people upset with it, because of how it works and what blizzards vision is of how it should play or feel.

Last time I checked the priest subforum poll on it, like 30% of players liked it even with a somewhat biased poll, so hardly "almost everyone". I for one can't fathom how people want the shitty imitation combo point system back instead of VF. Orbs were homogeneous cancer and should stay gone forever.

[scrappybristol]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316829/...in-shadowlands

we're finally here.

[DemonDays]

Preach is irrelevant. YOu should not be influenced by one who trafficds in negativity to get clicks. Nobody should be taking that guy seriously.

What an absolutely laughable comment. You're a nobody posting on one of the most irrelevant and fanboy infested "fansites" still going. At least Preach provides content. He provides feedback that is valued - else he wouldn't be invited to PRIVATE test realms that are different from the actual Alpha realms.

He has praised good aspects of Shadowlands and he's calling out the bad aspects. You don't have to watch him but you can't deny his feedback is detailed and succinct.


PS. His channel is completely demonetized. Clicks mean nothing to him.

- - - Updated - - -

Most classes have static cookie cutter builds and there is almost no room to switch or else the class just doesn't feel good or work at all.
That right there is a huge problem already and the lack of communication on that front is not sitting well with me when this is the time for big changes.

Shadow is the extreme case agree. But this just just an example. Shadow doesn't work when you dont pick the right build and on top of that almost everyone (looking at mmo/wowhead/offical forums) doesn't like Voidform.. we recently got Dp back, but boy are people upset with it, because of how it works and what blizzards vision is of how it should play or feel. Dk's and ret have some problems going on and suffer from same builds as well. Another example would be how they gave frost 2hand back while not thinking about the same problem we had with cata when duel wield will always be better because it allows for TWO runes. Zero effort to add or hear the feedback that people provide the moment people were able to test it. I have to say people have been providing good and enough feedback on the offical forums but .. things are pretty silent and people feel ignored, I mean it's not like we are a week in the alpha. You could say whats new? but this is the general vibe I get on the alpha and on the forums and chats.

Also the borrowed power arguments keep coming up and I get it.. it will start to lose value eventually, but the point is still true. Shadowlands had a chance to fix the underlaying mechanical problems so a class/spec will feel good and specially fun to play without needing to wait for the borrowed powers to start competing or even work at all. So yes.. for the people who care.. yea it's the start of a shitshow if you ask me.

Covenant abillities is a topic I don't realy want to dive in here, it's another challenge for blizard to make that feel good for everyone.. it's hard.

Ion and his team have a zero percent success rate balancing any new system added to the game. Artifacts, Legendaries, Azerite, Essences, Corruption. Failed every single one.

On top of that - Talents went an entire 2 year expansion cycle with close to zero tuning done to them.

Some talents have a 80% pickrate among players. They're insanely unbalanced.

[Vakir]

Some talents have a 80% pickrate among players. They're insanely unbalanced.

The best part is, people will look at that 80% pickrate even if on a base level (i.e. without numbers) it enhances the playstyle of and benefits a given spec and will conclude "clearly this needs to be cut/nerfed to the ground!" rather than just making a fundamental part of the spec baseline. Wake of Ashes or Demonic are my go-to examples.

Even in this very thread you have people simping a billion dollar company declaring that if you add anything to a class, you're inviting immediate need to prune, because adding 1-2 things is the same thing as doing that constantly with no brakes.

[DeicideUH]

Blizzard finally enabled the newest Alpha build, so I was able to complete take pics for an orc gallery:

--------ALLIANCE--------

Humans
Dwarves
Night Elves
Gnomes
Draenei
Worgen

--------HORDE--------

Orcs
Undead
Tauren
Trolls
Blood elves
Goblins

--------NEUTRAL--------

Pandaren

[TheFirstOnes]

@DemonDays I liked Artifacts and Legiondaries (Except for the RNG factor) though...

[Yarathir]

Blizzard finally enabled the newest Alpha build, so I was able to complete take pics for an orc gallery:

--------ALLIANCE--------

Humans
Dwarves
Night Elves
Gnomes
Draenei
Worgen

--------HORDE--------

Orcs
Undead
Tauren
Trolls
Blood elves
Goblins

--------NEUTRAL--------

Pandaren

I gotta say I really like the male orc scars more than the female ones.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The best part is, people will look at that 80% pickrate even if on a base level (i.e. without numbers) it enhances the playstyle of and benefits a given spec and will conclude "clearly this needs to be cut/nerfed to the ground!" rather than just making a fundamental part of the spec baseline. Wake of Ashes or Demonic are my go-to examples.

Even in this very thread you have people simping a billion dollar company declaring that if you add anything to a class, you're inviting immediate need to prune, because adding 1-2 things is the same thing as doing that constantly with no brakes.

Well I'm sure the 80% pickrate of players have differing reasons. I'm sure there are similarities between reasons but I think people pick talents for different reasons. I also feel differently when it comes to talents that may need to be baseline. When SL class changes were sorta announced part of me was hoping Thunderclap wouldn't stay Protection only.

[Vakir]

@DemonDays I liked Artifacts and Legiondaries (Except for the RNG factor) though...

Artifacts and Legiondaries were great in terms of how they felt when you put them all together, but Legion classes were designed with them in mind. That's part of the problem - by removing those same benefits that were hardwired into a weapon you'd always have and be strengthening, a lot of those same classes lost what made them interesting because a lot of the things that should've been baked somewhere else were permanently shuffled into mutually exclusive options or didn't exist outright.

Azerite Traits and Essences didn't guarantee that you'd have certain traits and an active ability specific to your specialization (like Artifacts did) and that meant in the process you'd often have an extremely scaled down class, as a lot of what was retained was moved into talents rather than kept as something you'd have just by virtue of keeping your Artifact equipped back in 7.0.

SL is fixing some of this by making more of (but not enough of, for some classes) those same benefits baseline at a greater rate, which means Legendaries will work well if they're acquired at an appropriate speed - at least now you're tying things to gear rather than some menu in the middle of an expansion that'll be gone in 2 years.

Well I'm sure the 80% pickrate of players have differing reasons. I'm sure there are similarities between reasons but I think people pick talents for different reasons. I also feel differently when it comes to talents that may need to be baseline. When SL class changes were sorta announced part of me was hoping Thunderclap wouldn't stay Protection only.

People have different reasons, but in a player base that wide and varied, that's why the feedback of people who know what they're doing is important. Not "only the top 1-2% matters!" but usually people with extensive knowledge of a class are the individuals that have the most knowledege of what's under the hood.

Thunderclap is a fair example. They tried scaling back the differences in specializations for that reason (Shield Block, Slam, etc. added to all specs) even though many wouldn't be used, but you're always going to have a pocket of people who wanted a different ability back, which is why you need to look at what's actually redundant from people who have experience. I don't main a warrior, so I know to shut my mouth on that one.

[therumblings]

Corruption removed in the Pre-Patch, thank God.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Corruption removed in the Pre-Patch, thank God.

Now they should switch stances and remove Azerite too.