9.0 General Discussion

[Makabreska]

Unless they pull the "The Arbiter was the evil one all along" card I don't see how they can build up a villain while also keeping up the farce that the Jailer is the villain.

I dunno, it's just so dumb to reveal final boss before xpac even starts. Speculations about stuff like that is simply fun.

[Sondrelk]

I dunno, it's just so dumb to reveal final boss before xpac even starts. Speculations about stuff like that is simply fun.

I imagine there is always some wiggle room. Just because Blizzard said the final boss is the Jailer doesnt mean the literal final boss is just the Jailer. Could be that the Jailer is the second to last boss, and the actual final boss is a surprise, or even that the Jailer in a sense becomes a different person by the time we fight him.

[Gurahk]

And Grom was supposed to be main WoD villain. I don't buy the pre-release main big bad reveal, any more.

You mean they said he was the final boss immediately after saying the final boss won't be an orc, thus making it a joke, right?

[Kumorii]

That's not happening. Blizzard already said Jailer is the main villain and central driving force of the expansion, and not Sylvanas.

Also, Sylvanas is in no position to betray him. Her powers are entirely borrowed from the Jailer. Without Jailer, she is nothing. And why would she betray him? She seems genuinely indoctrinated by the Jailer's promises of freedom.

Not sure what Jailor being the main villain and not Sylvanas makes it unable for her to betray him. N'zoth was the main villain and it was clear that Azshara would betray him for her own gain even if it was because of N'zoth she had a lot of her powers. She fell though and got betrayed instead.

Sylvanas have always been playing 4d chess from the future and only cared about her own goals. Her being a servant to the Jailor is just not something I see her be content with. She is right now because it's in line with her plans for the moment.

Of course I could be wrong as with all speculation.

[Sondrelk]

You mean they said he was the final boss immediately after saying the final boss won't be an orc, thus making it a joke, right?

Suppose it is true in one sense of the word. The final boss does include Grom. It would for instance also be technically correct to state that the final boss of WoD is Gul'dan, and also that the final boss is not an orc. We did afterall fight Archimonde because Gul'dan summoned him, and Archimonde is not an orc.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I dunno, it's just so dumb to reveal final boss before xpac even starts. Speculations about stuff like that is simply fun.

I dunno, worked well for Wrath. The last two FF14 expansions were pretty overt with their villains, and appear to be doing it a third time now, and they do just fine.

I think what you need is to make sure the villain is compelling if you're going to make them known from the start. That's where I worry the Jailer might fall flat, he's just another Cosmic God at this point to us.

[Kereberus]

I wonder if people still think we're gonna kill Sylvanas.

[Nagawithlegs]

I wonder if people still think we're gonna kill Sylvanas.

She's very likely a raid boss, very likely going to get punished and very very likely never going to appear after this expansion.

Even if she doesn't get her soul disintegrated like Varian it's pretty easy to see this is her finale.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I dunno, it's just so dumb to reveal final boss before xpac even starts. Speculations about stuff like that is simply fun.

Why is it dumb? It worked just fine in Wrath and Cata we all knew we'd fight and that wasn't an issue. Also sometimes too much speculation gets everyone the wrong idea or just some outlandish theories that aren't there.

[Varodoc]

Blizzard already said that with Shadowlands they wanted to return to an expansion formula where the final encounter is set-up from the start, ala WotLK and Cataclysm.

That is precisely the point. The Jailer is blatantly built up as the final, climactic encounter of the expansion, as he is an ancient threat who seeks to devour the entire cosmos. The final raid will most likely take place within the Sepulcher, a mysterious place within the Shadowlands that, according to the Primus, must be defended at all costs. The Jailer seeks to claim the Sepulcher for himself, and has identified the Arbiter as the key to said place. That also throws the "Arbiter is evil!" baseless theories out of the window, because the Primus specifically urges us to defend the Arbiter however we can.

[Makabreska]

Why is it dumb? It worked just fine in Wrath and Cata we all knew we'd fight and that wasn't an issue. Also sometimes too much speculation gets everyone the wrong idea or just some outlandish theories that aren't there.

Ye, no shit it worked for those xpacs. DW and LK were huge and established lore figures, and were anticipated as final bosses. For many LK was THE WoW final boss. Like honestly, who other would be the main doode in xpac named Wrath of the Lich King? But we stopped getting obvious bosses past Cata. There is really no reason to spoil the beans so early, anymore.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Ye, no shit it worked for those xpacs. DW and LK were huge lore figures, and were anticipated as final bosses. Like honestly, who other would be the main boss in xpac named Wrath of the Lich King? But we stopped getting obvious bosses past Cata. There is really no reason to spoil the beans so early, anymore.

Not really, they can chose to show us the final boss early if they want, there's nothing inherently bad about it. You call it dumb but you haven't said why.

[Revamp Man]

ok they got a date....lets go boys

figured they wouldn't launch around thanksgiving but uh guess i was wrong
also thought they wouldn't have the raid this year but i guess i was wrong there too

let's do it

[Makabreska]

Not really, they can chose to show us the final boss early if they want, there's nothing inherently bad about it. You call it dumb but you haven't said why.

I mean, isn't it obvious? Because it reveals most of the xpac ending. You get final boss, you can easily figure out raid and setting and make educated guesses from there. Was it that good when they announced SoO and Garrosh before MoP even started? With that they told us he will go full bad, after making him somewhat sympathetic in Cata. They spoiled so much of MoP story with that reveal.

[LemonDemonGirl]

And Grom was supposed to be main WoD villain. I don't buy the pre-release main big bad reveal, any more.

Kinda makes me think that Jailer might end up being the 'true' villian, but then again, there's also Sylvanas. Soo there's two villians in the expansion I guess

[ranzino]

Kinda makes me think that Jailer might end up being the 'true' villian, but then again, there's also Sylvanas. Soo there's two villians in the expansion I guess

villain vs. villain is totally a thing sometimes....

[Sondrelk]

I mean, isn't it obvious? Because it reveals most of the xpac ending. You get final boss, you can easily figure out raid and setting and make educated guesses from there. Was it that good when they announced SoO and Garrosh before MoP even started? With that they told us he will go full bad, after making him somewhat sympathetic in Cata. They spoiled so much of MoP story with that reveal.

Option 1. Torghast Classic.

The Jailer is set to enact his master plan, go into Torghast to stop him.


Option 2. Oribos twist.

The Jailer has usurped the seat of the Arbiter, mount a daring attack on Oribos in an effort to send him back to the Maw.


Option 3. Azeroth 4lyfe.

The Jailer intends to attack the World Soul of Azeroth, mount a defense against his forces centralized in the ruins of Teldrassil.


Option 4. The Jailer Sylvanas.

Sylvanas has betrayed the Jailer and taken his essence for her own, ensure her final death.


Option 5. The Infinite Jailer.

With the Jailer defeated Sylvanas uses the time-alterning properties of the Shadowlands to go back in time to when the Jailer was first imprisoned. Team up with the Bronze dragonflight to ensure his downfall goes as intended.


Option 6. Puppet on a string.

The Jailer was never the true threat, instead the Arbiter/Bolvar/literally anyone was actually the one Sylvanas once struck the bargain with, defeat [that person] and restore balance to the Shadowlands.



All of these are fully possible endings to Shadowlands. Just because we know who the final boss is doesnt mean we know what the fight will entail, where it will be, or more importantly what twists might be in effect between now and then.

[Houle]

Man, Sylvanas has got to be one of the cringiest, self-pitying characters in gaming history at this point.
"Boo fucking hoo, big bad daddy Arthas came and killed and resurrected me as an undead, this as all so unfaiiiiiir."
Guess what, the same thing or worse happened to millions of others, dont see them crying like bitches about the "unfairness" of the cosmos.
its funny and pathetic at the same time

[Sondrelk]

Kinda makes me think that Jailer might end up being the 'true' villian, but then again, there's also Sylvanas. Soo there's two villians in the expansion I guess

My guess is Sylvanas is the "true" antagonist, while the Jailer is simply the person giving her power. In a sense the true macguffin similar to how the final boss of WoD was in a sense Gul'dan, or how the final boss of Legion was technically Sargeras, both through proxies.

[TheFirstOnes]

What a fucking joke of a video.