9.0 General Discussion

[Dracullus]

Interesting. Preparing to can Ion or something?

First I'd like to know what the hell is Principal Game Designer. Sound like just step up from Senior. When Ion started replacing Chilton he straight up got Assistant Game Director title.

Only way they would can Ion is when WoW got huge drop in sales or subs (generally profits), not because some forum dwellers don't like him. Probably eventually he just resign and switch project or job when he will be burnout, but Ion seems to be more passionate about WoW than previous lead devs. He started as player after all.

[Edward Wu]

David Kim is a very technically-minded person. I actually think this move could signal that they intend to make WoW more of a deeper game in terms of stuff like talent systems, trees, any customization really. Kim definitely leans toward a more hardcore mindset than casual.

[Sondrelk]

From what I'm reading elsewhere, people seem to generally be saying good things about him. Something about how he was brought on later to handle balancing in Starcraft 2 (I have no experience in this so I can't say whether or not that's true) among other things.

I'm taking it as a positive at present at least. Interestingly he seems to have been promoted/brought on in September, so its fairly recent.

Doesn't help he seems to share a name with a politician (or someone running for office) so finding anything recent is a tad hard.

Hopefully it might be because they need some fresh blood with class and talent design. Diablo does afterall have a much more in-depth talent system, and even such a different game might have ideas that could be transplanted into WoW if you get someone with the righht mind for it.

[Kiivar86]

First I'd like to know what the hell is Principal Game Designer. Sound like just step up from Senior. When Ion started replacing Chilton he straight up got Assistant Game Director title.

Curious myself, I searched and found Ghostcrawler himself answering this very question!

What the difference between Game designer, Principal Game designer and Technical Game designer?

It varies from studio to studio. Here is the Riot definition. Blizzard's wasn't that different when I was there, but may have evolved.

(cutting out the part about Technical Game Designer)

A principal designer is a high ranking, possibly the highest rank of designer, typically above the title of senior. Historically, there were two tracks: a management track and an individual guru track. A principal in that setting was the guru who was at the top of his game, but didn't manage other designers. That definition is changing though, and now days some designers are given the principal title just to recognize that they are super senior, whether or not they manage other designers.

https://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/140852816523 (ask.fm url itself didn't work for me, had to use a cache)

David Kim is a very technically-minded person. I actually think this move could signal that they intend to make WoW more of a deeper game in terms of stuff like talent systems, trees, any customization really. Kim definitely leans toward a more hardcore mindset than casual.

That does gel with what I'm reading about him. I'm optimistic!

[Sondrelk]

David Kim is a very technically-minded person. I actually think this move could signal that they intend to make WoW more of a deeper game in terms of stuff like talent systems, trees, any customization really. Kim definitely leans toward a more hardcore mindset than casual.

My dream would be that they brought him in because they are considering a revamp of the WoW talent system like what we got going from Cata to MoP, and they need someone who is proven capable of leading such an endeavor.
Though even with that, if it is just wanting some fresh blood from a different game to give some perspective on how things could be improved I would love that.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

First I'd like to know what the hell is Principal Game Designer. Sound like just step up from Senior. When Ion started replacing Chilton he straight up got Assistant Game Director title.

Only way they would can Ion is when WoW got huge drop in sales or subs (generally profits), not because some forum dwellers don't like him. Probably eventually he just resign and switch project or job when he will be burnout, but Ion seems to be more passionate about WoW than previous lead devs. He started as player after all.

Its according to what I looked up higher then senior in terms of rank.

I kinda like the version they have now where the Void corrupts and the Light controls, but neither power is inherently evil to use. Allows some more interesting stories to take place when you have different Light users that have vastly different moralities. Things like Anduin being completely different from Xe'ra, which is again different to the Scarlet crusade. Things like that.

It also allows us to have Locus-Walker, Alleria and the Void Elves without it feeling like they are walking timebombs.

I just don't like it, its just as that and I don't have words to describe it and you could still have Void Elves ImO the same way we're not worried about Blood Elves calling demons on all of us, they just got affected by a "dark" energy source that changed them/ Though I think anyone that directly uses the void is in far more danger then a Void Elf that doesn't look into it but based on how they've been represented all of them are about the void.

[Sondrelk]

Curious myself, I searched and found Ghostcrawler himself answering this very question!



https://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/140852816523+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d]From his ask.fm page, though I couldn't seem to access the normal version had to use a cahced version instead[/url].

Sounds kinda like what I suggested then. They might want an ideas guy to pitch ideas that might work better.
As much as players will bitch about just taking suggestions from the community I don't think it is a stretch to assume that developers might prefer proven designers over monkeys on a typewriter, even if those monkeys knows what they are talking about.

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Its according to what I looked up higher then senior in terms of rank.





I just don't like it, its just as that and I don't have words to describe it and you could still have Void Elves ImO the same way we're not worried about Blood Elves calling demons on all of us, they just got affected by a "dark" energy source that changed them/ Though I think anyone that directly uses the void is in far more danger then a Void Elf that doesn't look into it but based on how they've been represented all of them are about the void.

I guess this is where you and I differ then. Because I never really got what the Light was supposed to be all about when it was just a vague force of good. I prefer it to have some nuance where there is an ongoing feud between light and dark, and we oppose the dark because it wants to kill us, but neither power is inherently good or evil, instead just having different perspectives on what kind of universe they would prefer.

[Edward Wu]

My dream would be that they brought him in because they are considering a revamp of the WoW talent system like what we got going from Cata to MoP, and they need someone who is proven capable of leading such an endeavor.
Though even with that, if it is just wanting some fresh blood from a different game to give some perspective on how things could be improved I would love that.

I wouldn't be surprised. Current talent system is so lame it's almost as bad as the original talent systems back in Vanilla. We need something more next-gen.

[Sondrelk]

I wouldn't be surprised. Current talent system is so lame it's almost as bad as the original talent systems back in Vanilla. We need something more next-gen.

I wouldnt necessarily say lame, but rather that the current system was designed for a vastly different kind of game. MoP might look similar to what we have now on the surface, but once you look deeper there is far more to expansions like BfA or Shadowlands than there was to MoP where zones pretty much just existed ot fill gaps between raids. Now we have far more reasons to engage in outdoor content beyond levelling, as well as having a far bigger focus on more than just Raids and PvP with things like M+ and single-player content.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

From what I'm reading elsewhere, people seem to generally be saying good things about him. Something about how he was brought on later to handle balancing in Starcraft 2 (I have no experience in this so I can't say whether or not that's true) among other things.

I'm taking it as a positive at present at least. Interestingly he seems to have been promoted/brought on in September, so its fairly recent.

Doesn't help he seems to share a name with a politician (or someone running for office) so finding anything recent is a tad hard.

Hmm I get the sense that might line up with when suddenly the devs went radio silent on Shadowlands and then we got the delay to "continue balancing."

So it sounds like this move has already had good results.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I kinda like the version they have now where the Void corrupts and the Light controls, but neither power is inherently evil to use. Allows some more interesting stories to take place when you have different Light users that have vastly different moralities. Things like Anduin being completely different from Xe'ra, which is again different to the Scarlet crusade. Things like that.

It also allows us to have Locus-Walker, Alleria and the Void Elves without it feeling like they are walking timebombs.

Not attaching an absolute morality to any of the cosmic powers is just a good decision in the long run tbh. It allows for a lot more room of what our enemies are, and could lead to interesting allies; We are just starting to see Void as something that can be used "for good" and since Demon Hunters, we have a solid base for positive use for Fel now next to Warlocks.

As much as seeing Light -and even Nature and Arcane- as enemies during an expansion, it would also be pretty neat to have Fel and Void users as our main allies.

[Sondrelk]

Not attaching an absolute morality to any of the cosmic powers is just a good decision in the long run tbh. It allows for a lot more room of what our enemies are, and could lead to interesting allies; We are just starting to see Void as something that can be used "for good" and since Demon Hunters, we have a solid base for positive use for Fel now next to Warlocks.

As much as seeing Light -and even Nature and Arcane- as enemies during an expansion, it would also be pretty neat to have Fel and Void users as our main allies.

I always imagine a Life antagonist being most similar to the Everbloom in WoD, where you have a loose amalgamate of lifeforms whose sole purpose is propagating itself.
Though then again, I always imagine that mostly because I imagined Life and Death both being fairly neutral entities whose sole motivation was self-propagation. Though then again, then again, we don't know the motivations of the Jailer. I always had the pet theory that he was imprisoned because he wanted to kill everything, and without life there could not be death either.

[TigTone]

Not attaching an absolute morality to any of the cosmic powers is just a good decision in the long run tbh. It allows for a lot more room of what our enemies are, and could lead to interesting allies; We are just starting to see Void as something that can be used "for good" and since Demon Hunters, we have a solid base for positive use for Fel now next to Warlocks.

As much as seeing Light -and even Nature and Arcane- as enemies during an expansion, it would also be pretty neat to have Fel and Void users as our main allies.

In WoD we had nature as enemies such as the Botani.

[Nyel]

I wish nothing bad for Ion, but his version of WoW just isn't good (or as good as it could be) and that's why he has to go or just switch positions with someone who is less involved in the overall direction of the game. Less ARPG / Diablo-like stuff in WoW, more in-depth reworks and major revamps. One can hope they will bring this (and other major changes) on for 10.0, but who knows. Maybe it means nothing in the end.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I always imagine a Life antagonist being most similar to the Everbloom in WoD, where you have a loose amalgamate of lifeforms whose sole purpose is propagating itself.
Though then again, I always imagine that mostly because I imagined Life and Death both being fairly neutral entities whose sole motivation was self-propagation. Though then again, then again, we don't know the motivations of the Jailer. I always had the pet theory that he was imprisoned because he wanted to kill everything, and without life there could not be death either.

I think he intends to spread death to more then just Azeroth hence why he wants her power. I would guess having the power of a Titan would be very good to have to spread death around.



still don't like life or Light being antaganistic

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I always imagine a Life antagonist being most similar to the Everbloom in WoD, where you have a loose amalgamate of lifeforms whose sole purpose is propagating itself.
Though then again, I always imagine that mostly because I imagined Life and Death both being fairly neutral entities whose sole motivation was self-propagation. Though then again, then again, we don't know the motivations of the Jailer. I always had the pet theory that he was imprisoned because he wanted to kill everything, and without life there could not be death either.

In WoD we had nature as enemies such as the Botani.

Honestly yeah, something like that, wish the botani had been a bigger threat to truly face that horror. And even beyond the scope of one planet being overrun by plant life, the idea of life itself as a cosmic energy trying to upend the balance, from more of an angle of immortality and how that affects the normal cycle of things.

We have seen immortal civilizations, but a group of people truly incapable of dying because they refuse the normal cycle of life and death could be very interesting. Could play with ideas of stagnation and the inability to let go and how change is necessary.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I wish nothing bad for Ion, but his version of WoW just isn't good (or as good as it could be) and that's why he has to go or just switch positions with someone who is less involved in the overall direction of the game. Less ARPG / Diablo-like stuff in WoW, more in-depth reworks and major revamps. One can hope they will bring this (and other major changes) on for 10.0, but who knows. Maybe it means nothing in the end.

Frankly the way Ion designs the game would have fit well on the Diablo 4 team. Where mass looting and few-button class design works.

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My dream would be that they brought him in because they are considering a revamp of the WoW talent system like what we got going from Cata to MoP, and they need someone who is proven capable of leading such an endeavor.
Though even with that, if it is just wanting some fresh blood from a different game to give some perspective on how things could be improved I would love that.

Any kind of rework of talents would be a win in my book. Whether it's going back to trees or making them more like the Glyphs of WoW Past, or Runes from Diablo.

[gcsmith]

My dream would be that they brought him in because they are considering a revamp of the WoW talent system like what we got going from Cata to MoP, and they need someone who is proven capable of leading such an endeavor.
Though even with that, if it is just wanting some fresh blood from a different game to give some perspective on how things could be improved I would love that.

That could work with a revamp to the old world too, chromie time and everything works well, but it would be nice to see a changed world post shadowlands.

[Varodoc]

I kinda like the version they have now where the Void corrupts and the Light controls, but neither power is inherently evil to use. Allows some more interesting stories to take place when you have different Light users that have vastly different moralities. Things like Anduin being completely different from Xe'ra, which is again different to the Scarlet crusade. Things like that.

It also allows us to have Locus-Walker, Alleria and the Void Elves without it feeling like they are walking timebombs.

Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

But the Ren'dorei have one advantage that the lesser races don't, and it's their sheer willpower and knowledge, which makes them the hardest mortals to corrupt. Who'd succumb to the Void faster? A random drunkard who doesn't even know what the Void is, or an elite elf who has been training non-stop to resist the whispers?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Everyone is a timebomb anyway, that is the message of WoW. Judging by the Visions of N'Zoth, the fruit vendor in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, the drunk grunt in Orgrimmar is a timebomb, even the righteous Thrall is a timebomb. No one can hide from the Void, no one can resist it.

But the Ren'dorei have one advantage that the lesser races don't, and it's their sheer willpower and knowledge, which makes them the hardest mortals to corrupt. Who'd succumb to the Void faster? A random drunkard who doesn't even know what the Void is, or an elite elf who has been training non-stop to resist the whispers?

And yet stormwind had 2 of the most knowledgable instantly corrupted as well. Your theory has quite a few holes. Also Visions just showed one of the many possibilities. Using that for argument is kinda flawed in itself.