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  1. #41
    give dk's a shadowstep like ability. i'd even be willing to trade death grip for it.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  2. #42
    Its a really sad state of affairs for DK, ive felt the same way for a long time and its actually gotten progressively worse.

    Blizzard have fixed certain aspects of DK. For example, Unholy's AOE is amazing now when it was flat out terrible in Legion. That is indeed a positive move. And although their single target dosent have quite as much potential as it did in Legion, the spec is overall better when it comes to single target and AOE ability.

    But Blizzard actually made us WORSE in all other aspects in BfA and it shocked me to see them make these changes.

    If I made the statement, Demon hunters/Monks/Rogues have significantly better mobility/utility than DK. Im sure you would all agree.

    So what does DK have significantly better than those classes? If I said.

    DK has significantly more DPS than Demon Hunter/Monk/Rogue. Im sure you would all agree thats absurd, in a given patch, Unholy or Frost might be beating Windwalker, Assassin, Havoc on the DPS meters but it will only be a few percent difference as Blizzard tries to BALANCE damage. So why isnt Utility balanced? Or Mobility? Because like hell we are balanced in those areas.

    Whats worse, we arent better mobility, we arent even close, its the same story for utility. Our damage is the same? So our defensives must be crazy powerful compared to them right? That makes us the Tiger tank of the dps world, slow, hard as nails, almost unkillable... Ummmm no we also have pretty crappy defensive ability, we have a fairly wide array of weak overall defensive abilities that is atleast matched if not beaten by most other melee.

    I just dont see how Blizzard dont see this.

    You know you see those pentagonal diagrams showing how strong something is in each corner of the pentagon, something like this. https://answers.unity.com/storage/te...-polyshape.png Draw out different melees on that, mobility, utility, defensives, damage. And you will see how freaking bad DK is compared to so many other classes.

    I hope they fix DK because im getting to the point where I prefer warrior for all the fun they offer in the other areas despite not enjoying the DPS rotation nearly as much.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    give dk's a shadowstep like ability. i'd even be willing to trade death grip for it.
    Nah. The game needs less (fewer?) movement skills, not more.
    DK movement is fine as it is, the problem is that blizz went overboard with the other classes.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Papzer View Post
    Nah. The game needs less (fewer?) movement skills, not more.
    DK movement is fine as it is, the problem is that blizz went overboard with the other classes.
    yeah and i doubt they would remove such things from other specs so maybe it's just time for dk's to get with the times.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    give dk's a shadowstep like ability. i'd even be willing to trade death grip for it.
    Don't remove my pull!

  6. #46
    Well, and I doubt they will add a third movement skill to death knights. Even smaller possibility than pruning other classes.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    yeah and i doubt they would remove such things from other specs so maybe it's just time for dk's to get with the times.
    No idea how you can say that, so you're saying that if a class is broken that Blizzard should just say, ahh well suck it, its how it is, get over it?
    @Papzer

    They arent going to prune every other class just so DK can compete, they are significantly more likely to just fix DK

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Papzer View Post
    Well, and I doubt they will add a third movement skill to death knights. Even smaller possibility than pruning other classes.
    The problem isnt that we need more movement abilities, its that Deaths advance and Wraithwalk are absolute trash.

    I used Deaths Advance a while back when following a DH friend through a dungeon, he could run at the same speed as me by default when I used one of my main movement abilities, thats an absolute joke, he was in tears laughing at how useless it is.

  8. #48
    I am just saying you are trying to fix the wrong things.

    I used Deaths Advance a while back when following a DH friend through a dungeon, he could run at the same speed as me by default when I used one of my main movement abilities, thats an absolute joke, he was in tears laughing at how useless it is.
    Well yeah, its shitty.
    But I still think DK's are fine. Just because the dev team is clueless about the game as a whole, that doesn't mean we should get a teleport or something.
    Probably they should bring back the 15% movement speed from the old unholy presence, and they should change wraith walk.
    Deaths advance is fine.
    And probably desecration for pvp, or some aoe snare like that.


    No idea how you can say that, so you're saying that if a class is broken that Blizzard should just say, ahh well suck it, its how it is, get over it?
    Just get used to it. They are exactly like this since 8.0.



    Btw I would like to meet that idiot who thought paladins need a sprint, or rogues should be faster than me while they are in stealth.
    Or the person who designed monks or DH's. Meh.
    Don't mind me, I am just whining again.
    Last edited by Papzer; 2019-08-22 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    No idea how you can say that, so you're saying that if a class is broken that Blizzard should just say, ahh well suck it, its how it is, get over it?
    @Papzer

    They arent going to prune every other class just so DK can compete, they are significantly more likely to just fix DK

    - - - Updated - - -



    The problem isnt that we need more movement abilities, its that Deaths advance and Wraithwalk are absolute trash.

    I used Deaths Advance a while back when following a DH friend through a dungeon, he could run at the same speed as me by default when I used one of my main movement abilities, thats an absolute joke, he was in tears laughing at how useless it is.
    by that i meant that dk's needs to be adjusted to fit in the current gameplay.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    by that i meant that dk's needs to be adjusted to fit in the current gameplay.
    Ahhh okay my bad then, then yes they need to be brought up to speed, quite literally with other specs. Not equal, but not like it is now.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    i think the issue is with your idea of 'fantasy' not meshing with the designers.

    also DW can stay the FUCK out of unholy as far as I'm concerned. And this mess about dw spreading disease faster is bullocks since melee autoswing has NEVER been a factor in applying disease.
    Does the ability to cuss make you feel like one of the cool kids? Your further need to capitalize it makes me think that you need to do so in order to feel smart/mature/tough. You need some better mentors kid.

  12. #52
    Keep it civil please guys
    - Death Knight / Demon Hunter / Monk Moderator -

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Casterbridge View Post
    The fantasy of UH is directly tied to Arthas and his visuals, all the way from WCIII, more than either Frost or Blood so I'm not sure why people keep trying to play this game of it making more sense to be the dual wield spec. I can understand if someone would like the visual for dual wield for UH, but stop acting like it makes more sense, it doesn't, it's simply an opinion. Personally, I like the visual of being a powerful warrior wielding a 2 handed sword, casting dark magic, and summoning the dead.

    Grant it mechanically they need to work the spec mechanics. As mentioned elsewhere damage is far too passive at the moment. There should be better interaction with our pets and diseases, plus more work done on our actual melee strikes.

    I also agree with the comment they really need to make dual wield a visual option, and maybe even vice versa, I kind of find the idea of playing a combat rogue, with a two-hander intriguing, or a survival hunter dual-wielding axes etc.
    i was thinking more about the mechanic introduced in legion, where they also decided on the weapons for the specs: inflicting multiple bursting sores on the enemy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Papzer View Post
    Nah. The game needs less (fewer?) movement skills, not more.
    no game needs fewer options to boost your speed, wow especially is a slogging mess if you can't increase your speed often.

  14. #54
    While on my warrior i notice how much fun Heroic Leap and Charge add to the gameplay and whenever i play my dk it's just a relaxing walk in the park... While most other classes just get back into the action straight away with charge / hook / step / jumpy-dh-things after a knockback etc, I do have to walk back. I'm almost always last up to the pillars in mechagon, i'm last after a wipe, i hate knockbacks. On top of that we basically got the old combo point mechanic with festering wounds and a frost playstyle which doesn't appeal to many people.

    I do still like the class lore wise and have put a lot of time into it over the years but it slowly but steady gets to a point where other classes are just so much more fun to play while being better at tanking / dps aswell.

    I guess a bandaid is all we can ask for since class design is horrible for so many classes and I don't expect major work to happen in the near future so... maybe make Festering Wounds work like modern combo points and rework some of our "mobility" skills to actually make them useful.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by itzLCD View Post
    Hello friends.

    Just to give a little background about myself I've been playing World of Warcraft on and off for the last 12 years or so and primarily during that time the Death Knight class has been my main; I fell in love with them since the beginning and haven't looked back since. I'm more a filthy casual these days but previously I was in high caliber 25m heroic raiding guilds (before mythic days) and have done lots of PvP.

    Over the last two expansions, Legion and now BFA, I have noticed Death Knights have gone further and further away from fulfilling their class fantasy though I will admit its mostly up to conjecture what that exactly means. However I will say Blizzard once stated they wanted DKs to be this dark, menacing and destructive class that while slow offer immense power and strength but quite frankly I'm just not seeing it. Yes we are slow and have few movement abilities but we're also not offering much in the damage or utility department either.

    Watching the race to world first for 8.2 and not seeing a single Death Knight being represented made be sad. Granted world first guilds make up a fraction of player base and overall community, the fact remains we bring nothing to the table that is of value and we end up just being 'another class'.

    In theory Death Knights should be one of the hardest hitting classes in the game but we're simply not. We don't offer raid utility like we use to with AMZ or haste buffs like Icy Veins and Death Grip doesn't work on half the mobs; meanwhile Retribution Paladins offer so much more while also doing the job of Death Knights much better.

    FROST
    I think it's safe to say at this point that most dislike Dual Wielding for Death Knights because it simply just doesn't fulfill the fantasy and the overwhelming requests to bring 2H back that continue to be ignored is saddening.

    Frost has also continued to suffer from scaling issues and the always ends up needed constant band-aid touch ups as the expansion progresses as we've seen. It really needs to be re-designed from the ground up. Only one viable talent build for 2 expansion in a row is also pretty bland and testament to the specializations lack of depth.

    UNHOLY

    Unholy is a great spec and is also somewhat competitive. The one thing I will say about it is that DW if it's going to be somewhere on the class makes a lot more since on Unholy since it's all about spreading diseases as fast as possible.
    __


    Overall I would really appreciate if Blizzard could focus a little more on our class, a class that really hasn't been significantly looked at in a long time.

    In my opinion we are just constantly overlooked: Same runeforges for 5 expansions in a row now, can't use any of the allied races, starting zone is completely out of date, offer nothing special or unique to raids or compositions and worst of all STILL CANT GET FROSTMOURNE!
    after reading and knowing how the blizzard peeps feel i wouldn't ask anything from them. they are heartless after all all the class identity has gone out the window it probably only pisses blizz off to be honest.

  16. #56
    I haven’t really enjoyed DK since the Cata changes, and I agree that they need to return to the roots of what made DK’s unique and fun.

    My suggestion for Blizz would start with making us a two spec class: DPS and Tank. Our first row of talents would be Blood, Frost, and Unholy with abilities and passives according to the flavor and role.

  17. #57
    I guess I'm just a heretic because I love dual wield frost way more than I ever did two hander. Even when there was an option for both I took a hard dive into adding a whirling dervish of black-blooded-blades to my ice and snow.

    There's so many two-handed specs out there, even Fury's version of dual-wield is two-handers. I understand having the option taken away entirely sucks, though.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuzog View Post
    I guess I'm just a heretic because I love dual wield frost way more than I ever did two hander. Even when there was an option for both I took a hard dive into adding a whirling dervish of black-blooded-blades to my ice and snow.

    There's so many two-handed specs out there, even Fury's version of dual-wield is two-handers. I understand having the option taken away entirely sucks, though.

    There’s really no reason to not have the option. Even in Wrath one of the “hybrid” specs was DW Unholy / Frost. I forget the nickname, Shadowfrost or something.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuzog View Post
    I guess I'm just a heretic because I love dual wield frost way more than I ever did two hander. Even when there was an option for both I took a hard dive into adding a whirling dervish of black-blooded-blades to my ice and snow.

    There's so many two-handed specs out there, even Fury's version of dual-wield is two-handers. I understand having the option taken away entirely sucks, though.
    i think we should have the option, to me it always made more sense to switch frost to 2h and unholy to dual wield, but i'd never want to force the concept on anyone

  20. #60
    Frost def needs more to it.

    Like when I think of a frost dk, it's dark and radiating cold and is surrounded by vengeful spirits that attack the dks target with him. Not a pet but something more passive that can be interacted with more with talents.

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