"Assault on Stormwind"

[Magnagarde]

Makes me wonder if what Garrosh saw during SoO was what Sylvanas will actually make happen. I'm talking about the phase when we fight him in Stormwind.

Anyone who thinks there need to be more scenarios, raids and quests in order to show how evil Sylvanas is must've missed a lot of context to a lot of the ingame content. Her character's done a lot more than most villains in WoW ever hoped to. At this point it's just a matter of how bad the wrapping paper type of lore surrounding her survival is. A character having a huge fanbase has a limit when it comes to the fanbase being a justification for keeping said character around.

[ls-]

Makes me wonder if what Garrosh saw during SoO was what Sylvanas will actually make happen. I'm talking about the phase when we fight him in Stormwind.

I dunno about that, she's also hanging on the wall there :P

[Magnagarde]

I dunno about that, she's also hanging on the wall there :P

I'm thinking it's gonna be used as a retrofitted hint, what with the void prophecising countless possibilities and all.

[mickybrighteyes]

Anyone who thinks there need to be more scenarios, raids and quests in order to show how evil Sylvanas is must've missed a lot of context to a lot of the ingame content. Her character's done a lot more than most villains in WoW ever hoped to. At this point it's just a matter of how bad the wrapping paper type of lore surrounding her survival is. A character having a huge fanbase has a limit when it comes to the fanbase being a justification for keeping said character around.

The issue is much of the content shown is not actions or even directly siting her actions. Between the third war and Legion she did very littler. She had plans, and the wrathgate that went sideways (to the point where it can't be determined how much she intended to do), but her overall acts were about even with the actions of Jaina. Then when Legion hit she really never did anything that we can quantify despite pointing out her clear intentions. BFA is the biggest turning point but we don't even get to SEE the actions being taken. Like why/how the San'layn show up.

Sure there's limits to how long we keep characters aroudn and shit... but betraying your allies, killing your people, plotting and carrying out attacks on cities, and killing civilians... these actions aren't unique to one character.

[MechaCThun]

This feels like a scenario for the war campaign.

[Magnagarde]

Sure there's limits to how long we keep characters aroudn and shit... but betraying your allies, killing your people, plotting and carrying out attacks on cities, and killing civilians... these actions aren't unique to one character.

You're right that they're not unique to one character; they're unique to a set of characters almost exclusively classified as villains. Sylvanas meets all the requirements except having the formal title of one.

Between experimenting on humans, bathing Gilneas in the plague just because she can, throwing around threats of raising the deceased into undeath (ie SoO), attempting to enslave the Queen of the Val'kyr, lying to the Horde that her goal is to heal Azeroth while mining Azerite for war on the side torching Teldrassil and mass incinerating innumerable innocent night elves and plague-bombing her own Horde at Lordaeron, brainwashing newly raised undead and feigning her previous "free-willed undead" position, she's done more than most villains ever hoped to achieve.

The only thing missing to make her a proper Warcraft villain is her being held accountable in the story for everything she's done and being killed off for good. There really is only so much a character can do before it reaches ridiculous limits of clearly illogical out of character preservation of a character. Every character in Warcraft has one or two major mistakes or wrongdoings affiliated to their name, but no one quite like hers. Her character's arc has reached excrutiatingly obnoxious heights, with the storytellers allowing it to levitate above all the rest when it comes to character accountability and sensible environmental reaction.

[Wangming]

Either that, or Gilneas and Quel'thelas become the new hubs I think.

I wouldn't mind that actually. I love Gilneas. It's a shame it wasn't used more.

[justandulas]

What about those of us still on team Sylvanas? i'd rather die an evil character than work with thrall and the allies

[mickybrighteyes]

You're right that they're not unique to one character; they're unique to a set of characters almost exclusively classified as villains. Sylvanas meets all the requirements except having the formal title of one.

Actually it's not just applied to villains unless you're trying to focus on a very specific story archetype. I mean even Anduin sacked a city. Genn betrayed his 'allies'. etc...

Jaina is a character who did the entire list I gave yet somehow she's not a villain at all and even redeemable from the perspective of those she targeted (cause writing lol)

The only thing missing to make her a proper Warcraft villain is her being held accountable in the story for everything she's done and being killed off for good.

Statement could apply to Jaina as well. Despite her extensive bit of screen time she's not being held accountable or holding herself accountable for half her actions except by fringe groups and vocal posters on forums.

Every character in Warcraft has one or two major mistakes or wrongdoings affiliated to their name, but no one quite like hers.

Seems like it's more than 2 for some characters... unless you're condensing actions somehow.

Her character's arc has reached excrutiatingly obnoxious heights, with the storytellers allowing it to levitate above all the rest when it comes to character accountability and sensible environmental reaction.

I feel this line applies to a number of characters in general.


edit:

lying to the Horde that her goal is to heal Azeroth while mining Azerite for war on the side torching Teldrassil

This I feel is a two fold thing. On one hand, the people she's lying to are figures leading organizations in the horde originally and the story railroads that Magni believes he can heal Azeroth and that we MUST do so. The biggest issue is that there's no way to verify any of that information and the story pushes forward ignoring that the former king of Ironforge is pushing actions on the horde. A not insignificant issue...

plague-bombing her own Horde at Lordaeron,

Nevermind that main push of an invading force that had successfully stomped everything between the gate and the coast thus far. The plaguebombing I would rate far less than the immedaite raising of the dead, I would think you'd point THAT out instead of the bombing itself.

[FelPlague]

So a Legion-era zone map called "Assault on Stormwind" was recently updated in 8.2.5.

Azshara is the vanilla zone the goblins are in.

- - - Updated - - -

given the way the story has been handled thus far...I highly doubt that. warfronts wouldn't be used to push that kind of story

i mean warfronts only need 1 faction, you could have a war front without a second faction, or have it so people who chose sylvansas act on one side, alliance and those who chose saurfang on alliance side.

[Magnagarde]

Statement could apply to Jaina as well. Despite her extensive bit of screen time she's not being held accountable or holding herself accountable for half her actions except by fringe groups and vocal posters on forums.

Sure it could and sure it does, but she's barely scraping the bottom of the pile of wrongdoings Sylvanas perpetrated.

- - - Updated - - -

Seems like it's more than 2 for some characters... unless you're condensing actions somehow.

What exactly have I condensed?

In Jaina's example, the only two controversial actions are the purge of Dalaran and BoD (ie a Sunreaver helped Garrosh get what he needs to nuke Theramore, the Zandalari willingly joined the Horde in a war the Horde started through Sylvanas' orders and they were overdue for justice over what they've done in MoP to begin with). Hell, the Zandalari were actually set up by Sylvanas because she pointedly had Talanji rescued to have the Zandalari fight her war.

None of this comes close to what Sylvanas has done to Gilneas or Teldrassil, both completely unprovoked actions, not to mention all the rest.

Genn "betrayed" the Alliance by telling them he doesn't want to fight other nations' wars and walling his people off. He didn't go around killing members of the Alliance of Lordaeron. He didn't threaten to turn them into Gilneans and he sure as hell didn't lead them into a naga trap in the middle of the world's ocean. He didn't tell Terenas to go on a ship and didn't have him sunk to the bottom of the ocean floor to fight monstrosities.

[Shampro]

Azshara is the vanilla zone the goblins are in.
.

I'm confused as to why you said this. We know what the Azshara zone is, a Horde (Goblin) Controlled - Port Zone. The point is that this string is ''new''.

[FelPlague]

I'm confused as to why you said this. We know what the Azshara zone is, a Horde (Goblin) Controlled - Port Zone. The point is that this string is ''new''.

Yes, its a new map based on the Azshara zone.

so a few things you may have forgotten
1. slyvanas wants stormwind
2. gallywix is still loyal to sylvanas
3. goblin home is in azshara
4. goblin home has a giant cannon
5. goblin cannon... is aimed at stormwind...
6.blizz said long ago the cannon would be fired...
7. goblin have a heritage armor quest line coming...
shall i say more?

[mickybrighteyes]

Sure it could and sure it does, but not she's barely scraping the bottom of the pile of wrongdoings Sylvanas perpetrated.

Patricide, betrayal, literally hitlering her own city... attacking multiple cities of her own volition solo thinking NOTHING of the cost? She's scraping the bottom of the barrel for something already.... she got godwin'd 3 expansions ago.

What have I condensed?

I think 2 mistakes is far too little given some character arcs.

Tyrande deserves like 5 for her love triangle alone.

[Magnagarde]

Yes, its a new map based on the Azshara zone.

so a few things you may have forgotten
1. slyvanas wants stormwind
2. gallywix is still loyal to sylvanas
3. goblin home is in azshara
4. goblin home has a giant cannon
5. goblin cannon... is aimed at stormwind...
6.blizz said long ago the cannon would be fired...
7. goblin have a heritage armor quest line coming...
shall i say more?

Well, well... things are turning out to be really Naga-saki this expansion.

[mickybrighteyes]

i mean warfronts only need 1 faction, you could have a war front without a second faction, or have it so people who chose sylvansas act on one side, alliance and those who chose saurfang on alliance side.

No I mean I don't feel that warfronts give enough material on their own to really show a fight for story progression. as a last act or 'scanario event' maybe, but stand alone like hillsbrad? What story do we see there?

[Doffen]

Yes, its a new map based on the Azshara zone.

so a few things you may have forgotten
1. slyvanas wants stormwind
2. gallywix is still loyal to sylvanas
3. goblin home is in azshara
4. goblin home has a giant cannon
5. goblin cannon... is aimed at stormwind...
6.blizz said long ago the cannon would be fired...
7. goblin have a heritage armor quest line coming...
shall i say more?

A possible scenario indeed. Something important will happen with Stormwind/Sylvanas/Goblins.

[mickybrighteyes]

Well, well... things are turning out to be really Naga-saki this expansion.

better make sure the Hero-see-ma then..,.

speaking of which. any new forge updates? MOTHER cooking anything up?

[XDurionX]

As others have said, this is 98% safe to say it´s a scenario.

[Zandalariprelate]

The big canon blowing Stormwind would be a nice event.