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  1. #1

    DK Dps - im losing motivation. Do we suck or should i stick with it ?

    Im abit fuzzed about the DK dps atm, and my motivation is dropping. Is it my gear thats on the bad side, or are DK's really near the bottom of the DPS ladder atm ?

    https://safe-armory.com/character/pr...9ce6f4d4a13b57

    At best, im simming 28k single target DPS over 5 min.

    A friend of mine, a balance Druid with only 431 ilvl sim 38k over 5 mins. Thats a huge difference with only 5 ilvls apart.

  2. #2
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    They're doing fine as far as I know. Nnogga was a Frost DK on Method's Mythic Aszhara attempts so they can't be doing too bad if they're being chosen for prog. You could just be doing it wrong and need to research the class mechanics more. I've done a few M+ with Unholy DK's too, they're still competitive when played correctly.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    They're doing fine as far as I know. Nnogga was a Frost DK on Method's Mythic Aszhara attempts so they can't be doing too bad if they're being chosen for prog. You could just be doing it wrong and need to research the class mechanics more.
    He was used as a one-trick pony with Sindragosa for the adds, same with the ret paladin.

  4. #4
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzony View Post
    He was used as a one-trick pony with Sindragosa for the adds, same with the ret paladin.
    Saw him for a fair few of the bosses. That alone tells me they're viable and that OP is probably missing something with his/her rotation.

  5. #5
    people are putting way too much weight on sims these days, just by looking at logs you can see that they are doing fine, they arent amazing, but they are just fine
    Last edited by valky94; 2019-08-06 at 07:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Yes, DKs are simming shit and depending on the boss they play like shit too.

    I was flamed as a potential troll even for pulling sub 20k at Op: Mechagon last week on the Tonks (after Gnomercy knocked me through the entire arena while I was trying to BoS and consistently kept charging away afterwards) and Kujo (a boss that has no decent window to use BoS at all with me being forced to break los for nearly half the fight). Dmg was decent on all other bosses but well, my reputation was down the drain.

    P.s. Other classes might have suffered from the problems I stated as well, sure, but other classes also have better gap closers. In said dungeon I was competing with two druids, a cat and an owl. I didn't stand a chance.
    Last edited by Galathir; 2019-08-06 at 08:16 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    Saw him for a fair few of the bosses. That alone tells me they're viable and that OP is probably missing something with his/her rotation.
    Forgot to mention i dont play as Frost, but UH.

  8. #8
    I've nothing to add except that my only WoW friend plays DK and taking him to the dungeons always feel like I'm handicapping my runs - he plays well but I can tell that a Warrior or even a Ret would do more. Viable, but not nowhere near optimal.

    They should drop the ''class'' fantasy in favour of balance.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fragnot77 View Post
    Im abit fuzzed about the DK dps atm, and my motivation is dropping. Is it my gear thats on the bad side, or are DK's really near the bottom of the DPS ladder atm ?

    https://safe-armory.com/character/pr...9ce6f4d4a13b57

    At best, im simming 28k single target DPS over 5 min.

    A friend of mine, a balance Druid with only 431 ilvl sim 38k over 5 mins. Thats a huge difference with only 5 ilvls apart.
    Your low dps is probably combination of low haste, bad trinkets, bad azerite traits and not sure what azerite neck powers you use (that armory link shows you don't use any, not sure if that's true). With proper gear you should do at least 10-15% more dps than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    I've nothing to add except that my only WoW friend plays DK and taking him to the dungeons always feel like I'm handicapping my runs - he plays well but I can tell that a Warrior or even a Ret would do more. Viable, but not nowhere near optimal.

    They should drop the ''class'' fantasy in favour of balance.
    That's strange because properly played UH DK is one of if not the top DPS for m+ atm. In S2 they were by far the best aoe dps thanks to reaping and now in S3 they are still very good. That doesn't mean they are viable for hard core m+ (20+) because they lack survuvabiltiy and utility that some other classes have.
    Last edited by Balvan; 2019-08-06 at 10:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fragnot77 View Post
    Im abit fuzzed about the DK dps atm, and my motivation is dropping. Is it my gear thats on the bad side, or are DK's really near the bottom of the DPS ladder atm ?

    https://safe-armory.com/character/pr...9ce6f4d4a13b57

    At best, im simming 28k single target DPS over 5 min.

    A friend of mine, a balance Druid with only 431 ilvl sim 38k over 5 mins. Thats a huge difference with only 5 ilvls apart.
    DK is not bottom, but they are lower tier currently. Balance Druids, on the other hand, are top 2 currently. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...y=4&bracket=10

    Furthermore, 5 ilvl is actually a lot since it means that every item is, on average, 5 ilvls higher than yours...and, with current scaling, it makes a good chunk of difference (e.g. if you had exactly the same gear at 5 ilvl higher, you'd likely sim at 31k to 32k).

    With that said, sims mean a lot less than people think. The sims are based on a relatively static fight (think along the lines of basically hitting a target dummy), so your actual performance will likely vary. What really matters is what you can do in the raid. While I play an even weaker class (Frost Mage), I'm still one of the heavier hitters in the guild since my performance in the raid is 80% to 90% of the best...so I easily outperform our hunters because they aren't as good (usually 40% to 50% of their best).

  11. #11
    Yes, Death knight is not something you should be playing if you want decent numbers on the meter. Play the Fotm if you care about fps meter

  12. #12
    I don't play for numbers I play what is fun and I've always found my frost dk (obliteration build) alot of fun.

    But in bfa the fun factor has gone obliteration has been pushed aside and replaced by BoS. The spec has become slow sluggish and lackluster so for the first time ever I've hung up my runes and moved over to my demo lock and I'm having fun again .

    I hate what blizz have done to frost dk being forced in to one build is awful especially if you don't like how it plays the removal of our haste requirement was a huge mistake and for me they've killed the class. Hopefully 9.0 brings back the fun factor and makes them viable again.

  13. #13
    If enough people stop playing it maybe it'll change for the better in 9.0...lol
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  14. #14
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
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    Low numbers is a noob problem or bad trinket, stats or traits, you're doing something wrong.

    By the looks of it, your traits aren't good. One festermight isn't gonna cut it. Your stats are also questionable. Get 20% haste then get crit. Razdunk's is crappy, especially at 415. Your rings have no enchants.

    Also, if you don't know how to dismiss your pet throughout M+, you're gonna have a hard time in high keys, especially when people want to skip packs.

    Also, when you sim, you don't just sim 3 patchwerk fights and call it a day. You sim patchwerk, heavy movement, hectic add cleave and naked target dummy. Otherwise you're not really seeing the best sample range. You should also hit the actual target dummy to get a feel for sustaining your rotation and then also practice in lower difficulty raids/dungeons.
    Last edited by msdos; 2019-08-06 at 01:27 PM.

  15. #15
    Rogues and dhs will always pull 4-6k ahead of you if they know what theyre doing. Spriests, ele shamans, balance im not even gonna get into details cause its realy sad but you shouldnt try to compete with these.
    Last edited by Kendros; 2019-08-08 at 12:29 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    They're doing fine as far as I know. Nnogga was a Frost DK on Method's Mythic Aszhara attempts so they can't be doing too bad if they're being chosen for prog. You could just be doing it wrong and need to research the class mechanics more. I've done a few M+ with Unholy DK's too, they're still competitive when played correctly.
    A full choreographed fight for every second with fixed movement patterns is a very different scenario to what you see in normal gameplay.

    Playing around BoS-frost in PUGs is not something you will ever see. The numbers might be good if the group commits every pull to Frost cooldown ussage and uptime but that will not happen, since many other specs and all meta specs don't need any babysitting or unusual pull patterns.

    You might have an easier time with Unholy, since there is more leeway to erratic movement patterns and if you really want your 2minute(ish) Boss-cooldown, you can just take ArmyOfTheDamned and have your boss cooldown, even better with magus traits for even bigger passive burst.

    To compete with mediocre outlaw rogues you might go with bursting/UF for the big 1.5min AoE, but many PUGs wont really care about positioning the mobs close enough or to keeping them close to your DnD to even be able to burst the wounds. Outlaw doesnt need so much help, neither does ret, dh or even range cleave specs.

    At least there is IRIS and ArmyOfTheDamned to pad a bit on trash, while keeping something usable for bosses. You will not solo carry a boosting group but it should be enough to keep up yourself in a mediocre 10-15+ group in overall and boss damage.

    If you are new to the class and not really interested in the current rune/wound ramp-up to just do mediocre-DPS, you might want to try out some classes/specs that excels in M+.

    M+ is not balanced at all and the DK class is not really good or wanted in any kind of pve content.
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  17. #17
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    M+ is not balanced at all and the DK class is not really good or wanted in any kind of pve content.
    I don't understand how you can type all that, play as much as you do, be as intelligent as you supposedly are and then have this ignorant pessimism as your final conclusion, especially when Feral, Ret, Survival, etc exist.

    You might as well just say priests are the only good class with that type of attitude you have or you might as well just say the stupid broken OP specs are the only things wanted in PVE, which if that's the case, then no shit sherlock?
    Last edited by msdos; 2019-08-08 at 01:53 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I don't understand how you can type all that, play as much as you do, be as intelligent as you supposedly are and then have this ignorant pessimism as your final conclusion, especially when Feral, Ret, Survival, etc exist.
    Most of these do better than the top DK specc and both Feral and Survival have the ability to respecc to some of the best speccs there currently are.
    So only your comparison with Rets stands. Congrats to us, among all the DPS classes in the game, there's one that does about as bad as Frost DKs (and considerably better than Unholy, in Eternal palace at least).

    P.s. Okay, after checking warcraftlogs Monks are also in a bad spot. Still doesn't make us anywhere near good or desirable except for certain niche uses.
    Last edited by Galathir; 2019-08-08 at 02:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Dks might be "viable" but you'll get better results with a rogue or dh every single patch, be more welcome in m+, not even mentioning they're both easier to play than dk (properly). Welcome to melee balance.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Dks might be "viable" but you'll get better results with a rogue or dh every single patch, be more welcome in m+, not even mentioning they're both easier to play than dk (properly). Welcome to melee balance.
    I think this is no surprise to anyone maining a non-meta class while having meta ALTs to see the other side. It is really hard to not do great in M+ with DH/rogue/hunter even with limited knowledge of the classes and specs and limited playtime/experience. The really sad part comes when you realize how many azerite and essence choices those classes have and how easy gearing gets when you are out of the DK-meme-gearing zone.

    My weekly-10-and-nothing-else ALT's catch up to my main-DK with excessive playtime/insane M+ farming and at some point will again overtake my main.

    Unholys azerite trait situation is the most ridiculous thing to see. While many classes got not only insanly good class specific traits, that boost DPS and makes the rotation even easier, the amount of them basicly garantees you have allways great choices on every outer ring. While for unholy its basicly Festermight or maybe try Frost?
    Last edited by Ange; 2019-08-09 at 01:59 AM.
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