DK Dps - im losing motivation. Do we suck or should i stick with it ?

[Alaenore]

nogga also had a 425 insidious lurkers which no frost dk will be able to obtain again especially in NA since nobody wants to enter crucible

The difference between 425 insidious and 415 pvp badge is like 0.5% dps. A Mechagon trinket with cyclotronic would providde only 0.3% less dps. So I don't really see your point.

Problem is we realistically only scale with the strength stat. Every other stat just feels like a tickle. Your versatility hardly ever moves, haste has DR very soon, mastery is such a weightless stat for us it might as well not even exist. It's like the only thing you can even acknowledge is crit, which now people are gemming for it, go figure. Relying on essences critting for damage, lol... Whatever.

Frost and not unholy but still. Totes only scale with strength !

Weapon DPS : 8.36
Haste :4.68
Critical Strike : 4.42
Versatility : 4.28
Mastery : 3.80
Off Hand Weapon DPS : 2.96
Strength : 2.41


As for OP's original question, yes it's a bit underperforming but nowhere near an excuse to be dead last dps on every boss.

[msdos]

Delete your one post, I was talking about Unholy.

P.S. it must be really cool to have your weapon DPS be the highest scale since you don't ever upgrade it, proving my point even more that DK's barely scale with anything.

[Onvious]

the thing is why we have old combo system as Unholy?

[Papzer]

d not unholy but still. Totes only scale with strength !
Weapon DPS : 8.36
Haste :4.68
Critical Strike : 4.42
Versatility : 4.28
Mastery : 3.80
Off Hand Weapon DPS : 2.96
Strength : 2.41

"primary stat"

[FelPlague]

Im abit fuzzed about the DK dps atm, and my motivation is dropping. Is it my gear thats on the bad side, or are DK's really near the bottom of the DPS ladder atm ?

https://safe-armory.com/character/pr...9ce6f4d4a13b57

At best, im simming 28k single target DPS over 5 min.

A friend of mine, a balance Druid with only 431 ilvl sim 38k over 5 mins. Thats a huge difference with only 5 ilvls apart.

1. what essences are you using
2. your azerite traits are bad.
https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#d...tacking&tier=3
3. your stat weights are horrible
4. why are you linking safe armory? it makes it impossible to help you if we cant get your name and actual stats...


just seems like you are doing everything wrong, talents, essences, stats, azerite traits, thats priob why.

[Alaenore]

Delete your one post, I was talking about Unholy.

P.S. it must be really cool to have your weapon DPS be the highest scale since you don't ever upgrade it, proving my point even more that DK's barely scale with anything.

Weapon DPS is the main upgrade for every melee or so. Besides, you upgrade it a few times every new tier. You won't trust me so I took the liberty to sim a few people off of warcraft logs :
- MM Hunter has Weapon DPS at ~17, second stat is around 5.
- Assassination Rogue has Weapon DPS at ~14, haste at 5.5
- 13.5 and 5 for DH
- 13.3 and 5 for Fury Warrior


But since you want to talk about Unholy, strength is still last for my sim :

Weapon DPS 12.36
Haste 4.85
Critical Strike 4.78
Versatility 4.56
Mastery 3.30
Strength 2.40

If anything, our magic part of the rotation makes us less reliant on weapon DPS than other melee.

So it just sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Musta]

How long are we going to do this?

until we get some decent class design

[msdos]

So it just sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.

You can't figure out the context for your own information, you're just throwing numbers at me, that much is obvious, especially since you're saying stuff about weapon damage everyone already knows.

DK's barely scale is my point, has been my point, get this through your brain. You're really really misinformed or just ignorant to be disputing me on this and you're just proving my point for me more by telling me strength is on bottom, thank you for that.

"You upgrade your weapon a few times each tier" Lol what? Take the liberty of taking your bullshit posts some where else lmao.

[Rustaclut0]

You can't figure out the context for your own information, you're just throwing numbers at me, that much is obvious, especially since you're saying stuff about weapon damage everyone already knows.

DK's barely scale is my point, has been my point, get this through your brain. You're really really misinformed or just ignorant to be disputing me on this and you're just proving my point for me more by telling me strength is on bottom, thank you for that.

"You upgrade your weapon a few times each tier" Lol what? Take the liberty of taking your bullshit posts some where else lmao.

^ this is accurate, problem is unholy does not scale, in Legion we was LUCKY that the legendary shoulders and arbiter build became relevant or unholy would of been garbage and even then frost was ruling most of the expansion.

We need a higher base scale with strength especially considering our weapon enchant and festermight, i mean it is the best we can get but imagine that, your best TRAITS are the LOWEST scaling stat you can obtain... joke really when you think of it like that.

On the weapon i upgrade it once, and normally i try to just get a M+ 2h Sword that applies the bleed... and if im lucky maybe i get a titan forged in raid or weekly chest.

[Hoeth]

Delete your one post, I was talking about Unholy.

P.S. it must be really cool to have your weapon DPS be the highest scale since you don't ever upgrade it, proving my point even more that DK's barely scale with anything.

This has been Frosts problem for most of its existence. Legion was the best (still not great) in this aspect due to the artifact mostly, but the Killing Machine mechanic, obliterate oriented rune priority (particularly when 2h frost was a thing), and artifical resource glut, especially when there was some skill to AMS usage, has made the spec consistently the worst gear-scaling DPS spec in the game. I played 2h frost almost exclusively from WOTLK to Blackrock Foundry, and every tier reset and/or expansion start I would start off one of the strongest DPS in my raid (especially on ST fights) but inevitably I would barely move up throughout the tier once I had a weapon and the rest of the raid would leave me in the dust.

[DutchOutcastbas]

So, with the recent 5% buff, how bad is it actually? I want to start doing m+ and raiding again. I probably won't go much further than 8/8 heroic and +10 mythic keys. Is unholy/frost dk also not very viable on that level, or is it just at the very top that it lacks?

[Rhaxus]

So, with the recent 5% buff, how bad is it actually? I want to start doing m+ and raiding again. I probably won't go much further than 8/8 heroic and +10 mythic keys. Is unholy/frost dk also not very viable on that level, or is it just at the very top that it lacks?

just look at warcraftlogs for the last month and add 5% on top, hardly enough to fall in line with the middle of the pack

[Bexlyn]

The buff hasnt done anything really. Still miles behind most specs in PVE. Unholy pvp nerfs were way OTT

[The Butt Witch]

I dumped my 385 uh dk when I almost got rekt by the naga quest mob in the cave in Nazjatar where you save some ankoan NPC. My damage was low and the mob hit like a truck.
I didn't have this issue on my ret pala and ww monk. I took it as an example of things to come, and dumped it.

[Trend]

So, with the recent 5% buff, how bad is it actually? I want to start doing m+ and raiding again. I probably won't go much further than 8/8 heroic and +10 mythic keys. Is unholy/frost dk also not very viable on that level, or is it just at the very top that it lacks?

I jumped on my ilvl 401 UH DK last night that I hadn't played at all since before 8.2 dropped other than the introductory quests to Nazjatar. I basically don't know what I'm doing, my neck is low level, I started with the basic rank 1 essence, my traits are terrible and I'm very close (at ilvl 407 at the end of the 90 minute session) to being able to hold my own in a timed +10.

10's and Heroic raids are completely do-able with any spec. If you're 420+ and you have any idea what you're doing, 10's and Heroic raids should be extremely trivial if you're not running with complete fuck-ups.

[FrostyK]

Frost DK here,

If you like the spec, just stay with it. Most DK complains DPS meter and ranking, but most of the time, they are not even playing correctly or utilizing their spell to the fullest.

SIMS is just a way to optimize your gears/stats. Your main DPS source still comes from playing correctly and optimally while doing mechanic. People talked as if they play perfectly and they have maximized their potential output from optimal play.
Whenever I join a Pug I see another Frost DK, they are almost always playing incorrectly.

How many of you time your BotE/Pillar of Frost stacks/Icy Citadel before casting your Cold Heart? I don’t mean waiting for every proc to come up. There will be those moments where waiting 1 or 2 second means more runes will be up for additional 3-4% Str on Pillars. This could mean a difference between a 30k Cold Heart or a 150k Crit Cold Heart.

How many of you actually abuse AMS to cheese boss and dungeon mechanics? You can throw in shit load of dps by ignoring the first Terrifying Visage on Rezan. You can ignore one stack of debuff from Void Touch Emissary. On high keys, this could be the extra burst of DPS you need before you wipe. You can safely run over any fire/poison patches on ground. You can pre pop AMS to prevent getting MC by the sister Boss in WC. All these effectively increase your DPS while contributing meaningfully as a team member.

How many of you actually uses Death Advance to cheese push-back mechanics on M+ Bosses? Do you know Icebound Fortitude can nullify Rising Tide from the Living Current in SotS that are the cause of many wipes?
All these are only barely scratching the surface. There is SO MUCH stuff you can do as a DK to improve your DPS. Yet I don’t see many DKs doing them. I top DPS in most M+. Im progressing in mythic EP nicely. Never once I have encountered situation where my guild will go “Sorry can’t take you bruh, coz you’re a DK”.

If you are stuck in the cesspool world where, everyone else is so engrosses with SIM-ed DPS and ilvl, then you have to adjust your expectation. But I have been accepted into more PUG teams than I have been rejected. Realized that sometime, PUG teams aren’t really full pugs. They are guildies who just need that 1 or 2 DPS. If you pull your weight and go beyond, these people will notice you and add you to their friendlist. And that will be because you played well, not because you’re some boomkin and SIMed 38k DPS. Organized team will take anyone who can make the run smoother compare to high DPS.

What I have always read here seems to be “Oh I love DK so much but they are so undertuned and I can’t perform. Boohoooooohoo”. Yet, when I look around, most players aren’t even playing correctly. You folks like to complain that the game is tuned for the 5% top end mythic players, then you continue to talk as if you are part of that 5%.

[Gurg]

One more Frost DK here, Alting equally geared Fury warrior.

Im on the train with FrostyDK, even so fury is "more fun" to play (running with Unbridled Ferocity (8% chance to drop Recklessness on Rampage) + Vision of Perfection + Lucid) which can chain INSANE chains of Recklessness and quickly spike up the numbers insanely high i find survivability way lower than DKs. And i mean way lover.

With DK i do feel a bit underpowered, but man, im always first to run "face in" into any encounter and among last ones to stay up (if were wiping). They have such fun toolkit that allows me to cope a lot of situations that, probably, only a Rogue can cope with with their cloak.

Im in a family, friendly guild that is not rushing with the progress, so were NOT so high up, but as it stands now we have 3 DKs in our raid, a Tank, UH and me, frost DK.
Even so we share gear among eachother, the real fun is competing with UH DK on our clears. He spikes ahead, but when my Gnomeregan Haste ticket procs and i line my procs together - hes below me.

So, the thing is. If you like it - stick to it. Its maybe a bit more effort than (lets say) playing a fury warrior, but its paying off when you put the time and effort into it.
And im not even closely optimized to the standards (Running Frozen Pulse/Icecap build with reeealllyy high haste (goes up to 70% when everything procs, its usually around 50% most of the time since Haste ticket from Gnomeregan procs often for FrostDK.

[The Butt Witch]

Go to https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator , import your character and sim it.

If you're doing roughly the same dps the sim says you should be doing with your gear on a tank&spank boss, you're good to go and it's just a gear and/or movement problem that keeps you from higher spots on the dps meter.

Also consider that BM hunters and boomkins have the potential of doing alot more dps in raids due to the fact that melee have mechanics to dodge, while these guys have pretty much 100% uptime as they have short cast times or none at all and can dodge mechanicd while still maintaining almost the same uptime on the target.

And another thing. Ask mr.robot may completely turn you off your character. It did it to me with my ww monk, when the difference between my dps and the one simmed was 8k. At an 8k difference there is nothing to fix, so just delete it, lol. I rerolled frost dk as I obviously can't do optimal dps on ww monk.

[Galathir]

Is it just a tooltip fix, am I going insane or did they nerf Unholy again on the PTR?

[Gurg]

Is it just a tooltip fix, am I going insane or did they nerf Unholy again on the PTR?

From what i see - they are, its nerfed by 1% tho. from negative 2% to negative 3%.
So taken in concern latest +5% buff its down to around 4% buff across the board.

Warlicks got hit too, from negative 10% to negative 12% making overall buff to them around +3%.