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  1. #1

    Trying Outlaw, looking for non stealth Rogue gameplay

    I main a Fury Warrior, and my other 2 characters I play most are Ret Paladin, and Havoc DH. I love the warp speed fast attack of all three those classes. Is Outlaw the closest to those other classes, and least the stealthy shadowy type?

    Now I haven't really played my Rogue since last Fall, he was the character I used my BfA free boost on, and was my first time playing a Rogue. I remember trying all three spec's, and just never being able to get comfortable with any of them the class just played so weird to me, and he felt so weak and wimpy, always getting nearly murdered just doing WQs. I left him off at like i345, and haven't touched him since, until last night.

    I decided to go Outlaw, as I am not into the big stealthy gameplay of Assassin or Sub, I felt Assi was cool, with the throwing knives and stuff, and wish it was mostly about that style and no stealth, but more of a knife dagger thrower guy. And Sub, man, that's a super difficult class for me to nail down, I could never gel with that one.

    So I am hoping Outlaw is more of a Warrior kind of fast attacker, or warp speed killing machine. Any tips, besides the typical Icy Veins and Wowhead guides?

    Looking for bet smooth rotation, and talents for low M+ and LFR.
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2019-08-06 at 04:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Any tips, besides the typical Icy Veins and Wowhead guides?
    Play what you like. If it's no fun, try something different.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Play what you like. If it's no fun, try something different.
    That's the only true answer.

  4. #4
    I do like my three main characters warrior paladin demon Hunter but I'm just kind of burnt out and bored of them and want to try something fresh right now.

    Wanna see if Outlaw is something for me

  5. #5
    In that case, read the guides. Unless you don't aspire to raiding, in which case you can basically do what you want.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  6. #6
    Ignore the other guy posting here. He's just trying to be smug without actually giving you a helpful answer.

    To answer your question without being an asshole, Assassination and Outlaw feel pretty samey at the moment in terms of neither particularly relying on Stealth too much. In fact, none of the speccs are really "stealth heavy", unless you simply don't like being in stealth at all. Rogue is actually a pretty powerful solo class, with strong defensives and stupidly high damage output. It's not the absolute best solo class, but Assassination with Leeching Poison can solo tons of world quest bosses and other hard mobs.

    Assassination has better single target burst in world content and great AoE, while Combat has incredibly strong AoE and pretty good single target burst. Combat doesn't have Leeching Poison though, and I'm not too familiar with how it feels doing most world content because I usually play Assassination.

    I'd suggest giving Rogue another try, because while it needs a little bit of gear to get going (especially Azerite Traits), once you get them you delete mobs super fast. I don't think there's too much general tips I could give that other guides don't (for World Content just follow their guides for AoE damage). I'm not sure what Combat wants, but Assassination is great with Shrouded Suffocation/Echoing Blades/Azerite Beam. With Leeching up I can pull like 15 mobs and just plow them down.

  7. #7
    therealstegblob thank you for a nice friendly reply, nice to see the community still has helpful cool players

    I guess I'll give Assassin a try too now, based on your suggestion

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Stealth is an integral tool in the kit. Ignoring it is giving away a big advantage (I include Vanish here too). If your rogue feels wimpy and it's not just lack of gear, you might be missing another key point in play, esp if you see this during WQ stuff... Control. Rogues have a lot of ways to control the mobs they're fighting or about to fight. That control more than makes up for our lack of armor if used well. For example:

    • Say you have 2 mobs near one another. Many classes might rush in and aggro both. You CAN with a rogue but if you're a little under geared or they're high HP mobs... Sap one, agro and kill the other.
    • You say you've pulled a mob and it's kicking your ass? Kidney shot it. Gives you a few seconds of stun so you can a) DPS it down, b) hit a self-heal key and get some more health back before it takes starts hitting you again.
    • What, it's a spell caster? Watch for interruptible spells and Kick them to interrupt them and lock it out of that school for a few seconds.
    • Want to fight 2-3 mobs at once? Get 2-3 CP on a mob, Cast Rupture (I play assassination, can you tell?). That gets a dot ticking. Do that to the other mob. Then DPS the 3rd until it's dead. You'll come back to mobs that have about half their HP gone.
    • And for Cthulu's sake, make sure you have poisons on if you play Assassination.


    I *never* die to things even close to my power level and not often for those above. Be aware that you're playing a class that does best at fighting 1-3 same power level mobs... you aren't going to walk in and agro 5 mobs all at your level and walk away.

    Ultimately if you want a "rawr, me run in and smash all faces" class... rogue isn't really it.
    Last edited by clevin; 2019-08-08 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Silly ass mistake..

  9. #9
    LOL, I am getting murdered left and right, now that I am in the new Naz zone. I am i364 and just getting killed against these World Bosses, even when in a 5 man group. I can easily take on the several of the regular monsters, that have like 100k health, but the 400k+ guys destroy me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Ignore the other guy posting here. He's just trying to be smug without actually giving you a helpful answer.

    To answer your question without being an asshole, Assassination and Outlaw feel pretty samey at the moment in terms of neither particularly relying on Stealth too much. In fact, none of the speccs are really "stealth heavy", unless you simply don't like being in stealth at all. Rogue is actually a pretty powerful solo class, with strong defensives and stupidly high damage output. It's not the absolute best solo class, but Assassination with Leeching Poison can solo tons of world quest bosses and other hard mobs.

    Assassination has better single target burst in world content and great AoE, while Combat has incredibly strong AoE and pretty good single target burst. Combat doesn't have Leeching Poison though, and I'm not too familiar with how it feels doing most world content because I usually play Assassination.

    I'd suggest giving Rogue another try, because while it needs a little bit of gear to get going (especially Azerite Traits), once you get them you delete mobs super fast. I don't think there's too much general tips I could give that other guides don't (for World Content just follow their guides for AoE damage). I'm not sure what Combat wants, but Assassination is great with Shrouded Suffocation/Echoing Blades/Azerite Beam. With Leeching up I can pull like 15 mobs and just plow them down.

    What talents do you recommend for Assassin, and a mini rotation for doing WQs in Naz? Thx

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    What talents do you recommend for Assassin, and a mini rotation for doing WQs in Naz? Thx
    Subterfuge, Leeching Poison, Toxic Blade and Poison Bomb. Rotation should be Garrote as many mobs as you can (you can get up to 4 if all you do is garrote out of stealth), Rupture a target, then just spam Fan of Knive and keep ruptures up. You can kite very effectively with Crippling Poison. You should unlock PVP talents and play with Warmode on so you can use Creeping Venom, System Shock and Smoke Bomb.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Subterfuge, Leeching Poison, Toxic Blade and Poison Bomb. Rotation should be Garrote as many mobs as you can (you can get up to 4 if all you do is garrote out of stealth), Rupture a target, then just spam Fan of Knive and keep ruptures up. You can kite very effectively with Crippling Poison. You should unlock PVP talents and play with Warmode on so you can use Creeping Venom, System Shock and Smoke Bomb.
    HOly crap thanks.

    I just changed my talents, and azerite traits per your suggestions, and went around BfA WQ zones, and I was handling bad guys with ease. And somehow it seems like a self heal on me too? I would regain health or not loose it as much?

    Ok, let me really play this for a day or two, but it may be better than Outlaw

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Remember, combo points are on the target.
    I thought this was changed? I've only really put time into outlaw but at least in that spec CP are definitely tied to me and not a specific mob

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    HOly crap thanks.

    I just changed my talents, and azerite traits per your suggestions, and went around BfA WQ zones, and I was handling bad guys with ease. And somehow it seems like a self heal on me too? I would regain health or not loose it as much?

    Ok, let me really play this for a day or two, but it may be better than Outlaw
    That's Leeching Poison that's healing you. It gives you 10% leech, which is basically 10% lifesteal. Between that and kiting with Crippling Poison you can handle most mobs with no problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Awyee View Post
    I thought this was changed? I've only really put time into outlaw but at least in that spec CP are definitely tied to me and not a specific mob
    Yeah he's wrong. Combo Points are on the rogue, not the target. They changed that in Cataclysm or something.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Assassination has better single target burst in world content and great AoE.
    I would not say the Baseline Assassination got great AOE

  15. #15
    So I haven't had time to run this character in M+ yet, looking forward to trying him as Assassin on a run, and then as Combat on a run. I'll just do like a Mythic 0 test them out.

    Right now my guy is i375.
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2019-08-08 at 03:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    So I haven't had time to run this character in M+ yet, looking forward to trying him as Assassin on a run, and then as Combat on a run. I'll just do like a Mythic 0 test them out.

    Right now my guy is i375.
    Outlaw is the most powerful DPS spec in the game for M+.

    Assassination does okay.

  17. #17
    Sorry to ask this simple question;. Weapon types each spec can use?

    - Assassin = Daggers only?
    - Combat = 1h weapons like Swords, and Axes only?

  18. #18
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awyee View Post
    I thought this was changed? I've only really put time into outlaw but at least in that spec CP are definitely tied to me and not a specific mob
    Bleh - I reversed what I mean. They're on YOU not the target. Thanks for catching that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    LOL, I am getting murdered left and right, now that I am in the new Naz zone. I am i364 and just getting killed against these World Bosses, even when in a 5 man group. I can easily take on the several of the regular monsters, that have like 100k health, but the 400k+ guys destroy me.
    Yeah, you're undergeared for them. But get the benthic 385 stuff at 5 pearls per piece and that will help a lot

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Yeah he's wrong. Combo Points are on the rogue, not the target. They changed that in Cataclysm or something.
    Yeah, I hate it when I think A and type B. Dammit Clev... :/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Sorry to ask this simple question;. Weapon types each spec can use?

    - Assassin = Daggers only?
    Yes.
    - Combat = 1h weapons like Swords, and Axes only?
    Outlaw, not Combat. But yes, I think so. No rogue spec uses 2H.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I would not say the Baseline Assassination got great AOE
    Fan of Knives, Rupture and Garrote with Subterfuge is pretty damn good baseline AoE. It gets better with traits, but that's the same for everyone.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Sorry to ask this simple question;. Weapon types each spec can use?

    - Assassin = Daggers only?
    - Combat = 1h weapons like Swords, and Axes only?
    Actually, I've found out you can use a dagger in your off-hand specifically and still use Dispatch. So your main hand needs to be a sword/axe/mace/fist but your off can be those OR a dagger. I'm not a rogue main though so I don't know if using it has other disadvantages like maybe doing less damage than having a sword.

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