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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    LOL, I am getting murdered left and right, now that I am in the new Naz zone. I am i364 and just getting killed against these World Bosses, even when in a 5 man group. I can easily take on the several of the regular monsters, that have like 100k health, but the 400k+ guys destroy me.

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    What talents do you recommend for Assassin, and a mini rotation for doing WQs in Naz? Thx

    "i364"

    There's your issue - nazjatar is balanced around being at least 400

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    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    Actually, I've found out you can use a dagger in your off-hand specifically and still use Dispatch. So your main hand needs to be a sword/axe/mace/fist but your off can be those OR a dagger. I'm not a rogue main though so I don't know if using it has other disadvantages like maybe doing less damage than having a sword.
    I think before BFA it was a downgrade to use a dagger in your offhand because of combat potency - I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter now though and a higher item level/ better stats dagger is better than a one hander, I've heard people still say daggers are worse though but I can't personally understand why

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    "i364"

    There's your issue - nazjatar is balanced around being at least 400

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    I think before BFA it was a downgrade to use a dagger in your offhand because of combat potency - I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter now though and a higher item level/ better stats dagger is better than a one hander, I've heard people still say daggers are worse though but I can't personally understand why
    Yeah, I didn't think there was cause doesn't everything go based on attack power instead of weapon damage now? Also saw that Main Gauche (I think it's called) isn't a % of weapon damage and just a flat number now.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Ignore the other guy posting here. He's just trying to be smug without actually giving you a helpful answer.

    To answer your question without being an asshole, Assassination and Outlaw feel pretty samey at the moment in terms of neither particularly relying on Stealth too much. In fact, none of the speccs are really "stealth heavy", unless you simply don't like being in stealth at all. Rogue is actually a pretty powerful solo class, with strong defensives and stupidly high damage output. It's not the absolute best solo class, but Assassination with Leeching Poison can solo tons of world quest bosses and other hard mobs.

    Assassination has better single target burst in world content and great AoE, while Combat has incredibly strong AoE and pretty good single target burst. Combat doesn't have Leeching Poison though, and I'm not too familiar with how it feels doing most world content because I usually play Assassination.

    I'd suggest giving Rogue another try, because while it needs a little bit of gear to get going (especially Azerite Traits), once you get them you delete mobs super fast. I don't think there's too much general tips I could give that other guides don't (for World Content just follow their guides for AoE damage). I'm not sure what Combat wants, but Assassination is great with Shrouded Suffocation/Echoing Blades/Azerite Beam. With Leeching up I can pull like 15 mobs and just plow them down.
    This is great advice. What would you say is the top/are the top "powerful solo class(es)?" I'm an altoholic so I dabble in everything.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by DotEleven View Post
    Yeah, I didn't think there was cause doesn't everything go based on attack power instead of weapon damage now? Also saw that Main Gauche (I think it's called) isn't a % of weapon damage and just a flat number now.
    Yeah exactly, so in reality I don't think it makes any kind of different. Whatever weapon you have that's best seems to be the way to go in your offhand

    I could be remembering wrong but didn't you used to put your better 1h in your offhand from main gauche - which as you pointed out is a flat number so I doubt that is still a thing either

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    Quote Originally Posted by luciano View Post
    This is great advice. What would you say is the top/are the top "powerful solo class(es)?" I'm an altoholic so I dabble in everything.
    Probably BM - can move and do full dps so they can kite forever, pet taunt, 10% leech, hero, strong defensive, strong damage - there's literally no downsides in terms of soloing

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I main a Fury Warrior, and my other 2 characters I play most are Ret Paladin, and Havoc DH. I love the warp speed fast attack of all three those classes. Is Outlaw the closest to those other classes, and least the stealthy shadowy type?

    Now I haven't really played my Rogue since last Fall, he was the character I used my BfA free boost on, and was my first time playing a Rogue. I remember trying all three spec's, and just never being able to get comfortable with any of them the class just played so weird to me, and he felt so weak and wimpy, always getting nearly murdered just doing WQs. I left him off at like i345, and haven't touched him since, until last night.

    I decided to go Outlaw, as I am not into the big stealthy gameplay of Assassin or Sub, I felt Assi was cool, with the throwing knives and stuff, and wish it was mostly about that style and no stealth, but more of a knife dagger thrower guy. And Sub, man, that's a super difficult class for me to nail down, I could never gel with that one.

    So I am hoping Outlaw is more of a Warrior kind of fast attacker, or warp speed killing machine. Any tips, besides the typical Icy Veins and Wowhead guides?

    Looking for bet smooth rotation, and talents for low M+ and LFR.
    2 other specs that can play "fast", are WW & Enh.
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Outlaw is the most powerful DPS spec in the game for M+.

    Assassination does okay.
    This isn't exclusively true until you're doing HUGE pulls in really high level keys. Combat's AoE via Blade Flurry over really long trash pulls at very high health is absolutely insane, and it's why the M+ leaderboard currently looks like this.

    At lower levels, Assassination is completely fine and totally competitive with it (assuming you're in a typical lower end group and you're not pulling multiple packs and speed plowing the dungeon).

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    Quote Originally Posted by luciano View Post
    This is great advice. What would you say is the top/are the top "powerful solo class(es)?" I'm an altoholic so I dabble in everything.
    I literally only play Rogue and sometimes Prot Warrior, so I really dunno. Off the top of my head I can tell you that any tank or healer specc is super easy to level as, Hunters and Warlocks are still pretty good at soloing. I leveled a Ret Paladin alt to play with a friend who ended up not playing the game, and while I wouldn't say Ret was exactly an amazing solo class, it's pretty funny to pull a shit load of mobs and then pop divine protection and light them up with multiple AoE proccs. Prot Paladin would've been 10 times easier to level as, though.

  7. #27
    As someone who played all 4 of these specs here's my 2 cents on Outlaw:

    The gameplay feels typically slower than that of a Fury or Havoc, Ret felt slower to me tho.

    Unlike the 3 specs you listed, Outlaw has no burst damage. This spec is all about the sustained output. You can help that with some talents, but it will never be like 'true burst' that an Assa opener can do for example.

    Gameplay wise, you don't have a clean rotation. You spam 2 combo generators and 2 combo users. It's all about utilizing your current buffs with Roll the Bones. It takes some time getting used to it.

    As for world content, Stealth and Vanish are the best things that a class can have. The on-demand combat exit is priceless.

    Neither of the rogue specs are stealthy tbh. I mean, neither can weave in and out of stealth on demand. Subs use shadow dance but that's not the same thing, it's more like a 'stance switch' than stealthy gameplay.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Outlaw has no burst damage.
    Yes they do lol. They have one of the most iconic burst abilities in the game.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I do like my three main characters warrior paladin demon Hunter but I'm just kind of burnt out and bored of them and want to try something fresh right now.

    Wanna see if Outlaw is something for me
    You're right in your assesment of Outlaw being the least stealth-focused of the three trees. You can go in guns blazing against mobs just fine out of stealth; its just a really nice tool to let you avoid doing it till its on your own terms. Like Nazjatar pre-flight for example is a dream for a rogue. Hells bells, with Grappling Hook, you still even have Heroic Leap

    My favorite combo is to hit blade flurry and then use killing spree. I also suggest taking the talent that increases the range of your melee attack by a few yards. It makes a big difference in packs of trash especially. Its also good practice to use Tricks of the Trade on the tank before you open up in dungeons especially if you have a cooldown you're planning to use, like Adrenaline Rush. In case you draw aggro you can always hit vanish if its off CD, but who wants to spend a GCD on having to do that when you can still be laying down your moves? If Tricks is on CD you don't have to wait for it to be up before you attack or anything absurd like that, its just decent practice in general.

    You're probably gonna find that the biggest thing to get used to is the difference in leather and plate gear. Once you get some reasonable armor on yourself, it'll feel much better overall. Try giving your toon some of that Benthic swag, for example. Even with as comparitively easy as the overworld is nowadays in general, Making mistakes on a rogue will still punish you ingame--but that's alright. Gives you a base of comparison for after you get familiar with things.

    Cloak of Shadows is fantastic and valuble. It will clear most debuffs, protect you from big Aoe's in boss fights if you don't want to move away and stop attacking, or even to cover 'oh shit' moments if you have to cross a puddle of w/e on the floor. We have the longevity of cockroaches in raids especially if you get the Cheat Death talent. This matters more in group content then when you're on your own doing stuff--because naturally in a group an extra second is all a healer can need to get a heal on you. We also have feint (to reduce the damage of incoming aoe) and another move that helps you parry stuff, i don't remember what its called but the icon is two swords. That can help in case you're trying to facetank a rare or if extra mobs pull or stuff like that.

    Pistol shot is awesome. Between the eyes is too, but its got a little CD. The stun is really useful and can often count as an interrupt--with some raid mobs the rules on that can vary though. It was great against the raptors in the Conclave fight, but I don't remember if BtE was able to interrupt the spellcast by the ghost add that appeared during the Grong fight, for example. Don't forget to put 'kick' on your bar someplace. You'll be using it--guaranteed.

    Another thing that I've found really good in raids and just left on my toon full-time is the Alactricity talent. It speeds up your gameplay quite a bit--once you get a taste you can't really go back. Plus on boss fights when you know you're gonna be on that twit for awhile, it adds up.

    Rogues always seem more weak before they have gear to back them up, but most of the time, being picky about how many adds you engage and learing your tools is the path to seeing through this tricky period. My main is 413 ilevel and I can get away with quite a bit.

    I gotta take this time to point out though that since you're used to a warrior, you're probably used to just rolling into the Bloodfin encampment in Naz and leaving 50 murlocs behind you. If you get too popular you're still gonna get wrecked, so hit vanish if things look that bad. If its up and you have a debuff its probably smartest to do Cloak first and Then Vanish for insurance. Some debuffs can knock you out of stealth.
    Last edited by Asotcha; 2019-08-08 at 08:26 PM.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    As someone who played all 4 of these specs here's my 2 cents on Outlaw:

    The gameplay feels typically slower than that of a Fury or Havoc, Ret felt slower to me tho.

    Unlike the 3 specs you listed, Outlaw has no burst damage. This spec is all about the sustained output. You can help that with some talents, but it will never be like 'true burst' that an Assa opener can do for example.

    Gameplay wise, you don't have a clean rotation. You spam 2 combo generators and 2 combo users. It's all about utilizing your current buffs with Roll the Bones. It takes some time getting used to it.

    As for world content, Stealth and Vanish are the best things that a class can have. The on-demand combat exit is priceless.

    Neither of the rogue specs are stealthy tbh. I mean, neither can weave in and out of stealth on demand. Subs use shadow dance but that's not the same thing, it's more like a 'stance switch' than stealthy gameplay.
    Outlaw has fine burst, it's just not the best burst in the game, like what Sin probably has

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Fan of Knives, Rupture and Garrote with Subterfuge is pretty damn good baseline AoE. It gets better with traits, but that's the same for everyone.
    Naaah, it's fine but not great. The baseline AOE of Outlaw is great.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Kemsa's Avatar
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    First: Join Ravenholdt Discord
    Second: ask there.
    Third: YOU WILL BE USING STEALTH STILL WITH OUTLAW. The opener will always be "adrenaline rush 2 sec pull, stealth, prepot, Ambush, vanish, ambush, roll the bones, essence, Blade Rush, "roll the bones/BTE"
    Fourth: you need specific azerite traits more than any other classes, BECAREFULL.
    Fifth: join the discord...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Naaah, it's fine but not great. The baseline AOE of Outlaw is great.
    You can think whatever wrong thing you want, it's cool.

    For the record, Outlaw is only marginally better at AoE than Assassination until you're talking 6-7+ targets with large health pools, then Blade Flurry's consistent damage gets pretty fucking ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemsa View Post
    First: Join Ravenholdt Discord
    The problem with Ravenholdt is literally everyone in it is a bootlicking asshole who will answer every question with LOOK AT DA STICKY1111 even when your question is absolutely not answered, at all, in any fucking stickied message.

  14. #34
    Ok, thank you everyone who replied with good posts, I appreciate it.

    So...for someone like me a casual player, only doing low M+ keys and LFR, and WQs, etc...and the Rogue being an alt. Should I play Assassin or Outlaw?

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire Kemsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Ok, thank you everyone who replied with good posts, I appreciate it.

    So...for someone like me a casual player, only doing low M+ keys and LFR, and WQs, etc...and the Rogue being an alt. Should I play Assassin or Outlaw?
    Outlaw, its fun.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Yes they do lol. They have one of the most iconic burst abilities in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Outlaw has fine burst, it's just not the best burst in the game, like what Sin probably has
    Alright. Show me your big Outlaw bursts. And I don't mean 5+ targets Blade Flurry ofc. Outlaw has literally no burst on single target, and by burst we compare burst damage to specs that actually do burst dmg. Ofc it has 'some' compared to no-cd dps but please.

    Then Affli lock is really good at burst AoE too I guess.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Alright. Show me your big Outlaw bursts. And I don't mean 5+ targets Blade Flurry ofc. Outlaw has literally no burst on single target, and by burst we compare burst damage to specs that actually do burst dmg. Ofc it has 'some' compared to no-cd dps but please.
    https://www.wowhead.com/spell=51690/killing-spree

    Here's a video of some guy demonstrating single target Outlaw burst https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoZQmverRk

    Like, just stop posting.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/spell=51690/killing-spree

    Here's a video of some guy demonstrating single target Outlaw burst https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoZQmverRk

    Like, just stop posting.
    Wtf is this?

    Do you actually play Outlaw? Do you honestly think Killing Spree is like a huge-af burst ability? It is some, but it's hardly a 'burst' by burst standards.

    Also, this video is fcking garbage. And way out-dated.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Wtf is this?

    Do you actually play Outlaw? Do you honestly think Killing Spree is like a huge-af burst ability? It is some, but it's hardly a 'burst' by burst standards.

    Also, this video is fcking garbage. And way out-dated.
    Ignoring that your entire shitpost was one big reeeee session, I'll address it as if it has some merit.

    Yes, Killing Spree is a pretty strong burst ability lol. It's easily like 100kish as of the publishing of that video, which is, you know, pretty fucking strong? I'm not sure what it's hitting for right now as I don't play Combat at the moment, but I'm assuming it's higher than 100k.

    We're done here. You've been proven wrong, no one needs to see any further shitposting. Ignored.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Ignoring that your entire shitpost was one big reeeee session, I'll address it as if it has some merit.

    Yes, Killing Spree is a pretty strong burst ability lol. It's easily like 100kish as of the publishing of that video, which is, you know, pretty fucking strong? I'm not sure what it's hitting for right now as I don't play Combat at the moment, but I'm assuming it's higher than 100k.

    We're done here. You've been proven wrong, no one needs to see any further shitposting. Ignored.
    What are you talking about?

    You posted a shitty fckin video with a guy who can't play for shit.

    Here, actual data:

    https://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-simul...445-fight-max/

    https://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-simul...445-fight-max/

    Look at the graphs. Tell me which has burst and which doesn't.

    Outlaw had god burst in Legion. Those days are gone. Our sustained dps is still very good. But not burst.

    Edit: And of course you're trying to act tough while not even playing the game. What did I expect from the average bullshit expert on MMO-c. I give actual feedback based on experience. You saw a fckin video from a YEAR AGO where a guy can't even fckin play the class and be like "oh dayum he haz sum gud burstz".

    Grow the fuck up and learn to read data. Or play the game. Either or.

    Edit2: The guy in the video also says the Dancing Steel is fucking trash. What a fuckin joke kind of a video is this? Infuriatingly incompetent.
    Last edited by NabyBro; 2019-08-09 at 12:33 AM.

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