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  1. #1

    MAGA - your thoughts

    What do you think Blizz could do to make affliction great again in Mythic +? It has been my favourite spec for years but it feels garbage at the minute especially from how dreamy (OP) it was in Legion

  2. #2
    Seeing the comments in this post from people who don't read past the title is going to be funny.

    I just want combat to not be over in moments. Ramp-up has no place in WoW anymore and affliction is all about ramp-up. Sure I miss OP burst AoE and sure they could fix everything by just giving Affliction Soul Flame passively (rip) but I think the problem is just more of an issue with WoW's combat being too bursty and frontloaded these days. Affliction is I think one of if not the only class with a ramp mechanic at all.

    If they don't want to do that...just give us back Soul Flame. It was thematic, it was fun, and it really fit the feel of Affliction being a soul harvester.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire meekus's Avatar
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    Buffing seed of corruption and/or sow the seeds substantially could be enough to make it good.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by meekus View Post
    Buffing seed of corruption and/or sow the seeds substantially could be enough to make it good.
    Yeah, I was thinking something like this, Soul Flame would be great too. Basically, anything to boost our AOE. Vile Taint is great if you have a decent group but in the majority of circumstances, it's not worth dropping Phantom Singularity for.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Waldor666 View Post
    What do you think Blizz could do to make affliction great again in Mythic +? It has been my favourite spec for years but it feels garbage at the minute especially from how dreamy (OP) it was in Legion
    The problem that I see, is the dilemma of people wanting class inhomogeneity but still want their respective specs to be able to excel in every aspect of the game.

    As a dot spec, Affliction should - by Blizzard current design philosophy - not have very high burst dps in either single target or AOE. This is of course a problem especially in lower M+ dungeons (around +10 keys) as mobs die very quickly.

    So I think we need to decide what we want. Do we want inhomogeneous classes/specs which are bad and good at different aspects of the game (e.g. affliction: Bad in M+, Good in raids) or do we want more homogeneous classes/specs where players can play whatever spec they like in all content and be as good as each other at everything?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by meekus View Post
    Buffing seed of corruption and/or sow the seeds substantially could be enough to make it good.
    If you want to spam 1 aoe-button most of the dungeon maybe affliction is not the spec you should be playing

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire meekus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violetti View Post
    If you want to spam 1 aoe-button most of the dungeon maybe affliction is not the spec you should be playing
    I didn't mind how it played in Legion tbh. But how would you fix affliction then? Dots alone are never gonna be competetive against the burst damage of most other classes.

  8. #8
    Give us Soul Flame back as a talent in the lvl 45(?) row as an option...maybe.

  9. #9
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I just want combat to not be over in moments. Ramp-up has no place in WoW anymore and affliction is all about ramp-up. Sure I miss OP burst AoE and sure they could fix everything by just giving Affliction Soul Flame passively (rip) but I think the problem is just more of an issue with WoW's combat being too bursty and frontloaded these days. Affliction is I think one of if not the only class with a ramp mechanic at all.
    I would agree in general (although there are actually several specs that require ramp up...especially if there are any delays between pulls). Blizz has changed the flow of the game, but hasn't changed the specs (especially most casters) to fit into that flow.

  10. #10
    They can make Nightfall also affect Seed of Corruption (free and instant) for starters. And they should rework and bring back that SoC azerite trait.

  11. #11
    The Affliction AoE burst rotation in Legion was excellent with

    - Applying agony
    - Triggering Sephuz
    - Casting SoC
    - Shard sniping

    So much fun to play.

  12. #12
    Bring back glyphed soul swap!

    Ok aside from that, drop PS entirely and buff sow the seeds. I don't expect Aff to be as good as it was with its artifact weapon, but it needs to be better than trash tier on AoE. Until then I'll keep going Demo for M+

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Violetti View Post
    If you want to spam 1 aoe-button most of the dungeon maybe affliction is not the spec you should be playing
    Youre right just play ANY other class for that.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Give us Soul Flame back as a talent in the lvl 45(?) row as an option...maybe.

    I don't know why people keep saying this. Soul flame is not relevant, it had nothing to do with why aff was good. If aff is to ever be good in m+ again the following changes need to be made:

    - Seed needs huge buffs. It got completely gutted going into BFA and blizzard has yet to address this. There is absolutely no excuse for aff to have this weak of AOE. Sow the seeds also needed to be made back into 3 seeds.

    - Base dot damage needs to be increased. Base dot damage is so absurdly low even on packs that live a while you aren't doing real damage.

    Before this tier you could maybe argue aff was good in raids so it justifies being bad in m+, but now even in raids aff is doing poorly because it hasn't scaled well. All of your damage is packed into darkglare (which is a problem for all 3 warlock specs, to be frank.)

    Blizzard is just completely incompetent, they could have buffed seed multiple patches ago and it would have had absolutely no impact on raid, but rather than do the right thing they've decided to let it fester and aff will likely be the worst m+ spec in the game for the rest of BFA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The problem that I see, is the dilemma of people wanting class inhomogeneity but still want their respective specs to be able to excel in every aspect of the game.

    As a dot spec, Affliction should - by Blizzard current design philosophy - not have very high burst dps in either single target or AOE. This is of course a problem especially in lower M+ dungeons (around +10 keys) as mobs die very quickly.

    So I think we need to decide what we want. Do we want inhomogeneous classes/specs which are bad and good at different aspects of the game (e.g. affliction: Bad in M+, Good in raids) or do we want more homogeneous classes/specs where players can play whatever spec they like in all content and be as good as each other at everything?
    You'd have a good argument if aff was actually good at being a dot spec, but it isn't. It has no aoe, piss poor dot damage, and middle of the pack single target on most fights.

    Even on fights where aff should be dominating it's doing poorly. I can't think of anything aff does that makes it unique or anything aff can do that another spec can't do better.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    You'd have a good argument if aff was actually good at being a dot spec, but it isn't. It has no aoe, piss poor dot damage, and middle of the pack single target on most fights.

    Even on fights where aff should be dominating it's doing poorly. I can't think of anything aff does that makes it unique or anything aff can do that another spec can't do better.
    The argument is not really based on any current performance but instead on the general design philosophy. So I believe the argument still stands. If we want inhomogeneous class design, we have to accept that classes excel at different aspects. Based on the current Affliction “class fantasy” it should not have bursty AOE. Now, I’m not sure if this is the right way to design the game or not, because in the end what matters most to me is: fun.

    In relation to Afflictions current performance:

    Currently, Affliction has great single target damage, look at bosses like Sivara and Behemoth.

    On spread add fights, Affliction is also one of the best specs in the game. There are just not many fights with spread adds in EP. And spread cleave is not really relevant in M+ as the mobs will be mostly stacked.

    Affliction is not great on fights with stacked add cleave like: Radiance, Orgozoa and Zar’qul.

    Overall, Affliction is a mid tier spec in EP which is fine considering many of the fight doesn’t suit Affliction. Many Warlocks are just getting used to Affliction always being a top tier spec, so when it is not something feels broken. But everything is fine in relation to raiding.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-08-30 at 06:21 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The argument is not really based on any current performance but instead on the general design philosophy. So I believe the argument still stands. If we want inhomogeneous class design, we have to accept that classes excel at different aspects. Based on the current Affliction “class fantasy” it should not have bursty AOE. Now, I’m not sure if this is the right way to design the game or not, because in the end what matters most to me is: fun.

    In relation to Afflictions current performance:

    Currently, Affliction has great single target damage, look at bosses like Sivara and Behemoth.

    On spread add fights, Affliction is also one of the best specs in the game. There are just not many fights with spread adds in EP. And spread cleave is not really relevant in M+ as the mobs will be mostly stacked.

    Affliction is not great on fights with stacked add cleave like: Radiance, Orgozoa and Zar’qul.

    Overall, Affliction is a mid tier spec in EP which is fine considering many of the fight doesn’t suit Affliction. Many Warlocks are just getting used to Affliction always being a top tier spec, so when it is not something feels broken. But everything is fine in relation to raiding.
    I agree with most of your statements, especially regarding fun!
    But I think inhomogenity does NOT mean that specs cannot compete in every aspect of the game - and the reason is that the encounters themselves can be designed to be fun for everyone.
    We need new "boxes" to think in. Right now we only think about "aoe" "burst" "sustained damage" "spread cleave" etc-etc.

    Different specs can both be good at aoe while doing entirely different rotations and THAT is what inhomogenity means. There should be specs that "excel" at certain things, naturally, but don't let rogues dominate M+ for over a year, and don't let classes fall off the leaderboards because Blizz doesn't fundamentally change classes mid-expansion.
    What? Giving Sow the Seeds a cast time reduction and another seed is game-breaking? I can't imagine the change takes up too much dev time, but can spice things up.

    Yeah. BfA needs more "spice" and less surgically-mathematically-pshycologically designed classes..

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post

    Many Warlocks are just getting used to Affliction always being a top tier spec, so when it is not something feels broken. But everything is fine in relation to raiding.
    Rubbish. The spec design in bfa is shit. The fact that all of affliction's damage is loaded into the darkglare cooldown is terrible.

    Affliction is a dot spec with dots that hit for shit, pretty bad multi target damage because nothing lives long enough and at least half the talent rows only having 1 viable choice (or in ds case, it's a dps loss over taking no talent at all).

    I fully support class diversity and dehomogenising, but that means actually doing it to all classes, not giving most of them at least 1 spec that can do everything amazingly, but leaving warlocks out.

    The only thing propping up affliction(and keeping it viable in raid) is the OP damage that is loaded into dark glare. But that's not fun and a terrible design.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaWarlock View Post
    Rubbish. The spec design in bfa is shit. The fact that all of affliction's damage is loaded into the darkglare cooldown is terrible.

    Affliction is a dot spec with dots that hit for shit, pretty bad multi target damage because nothing lives long enough and at least half the talent rows only having 1 viable choice (or in ds case, it's a dps loss over taking no talent at all).

    I fully support class diversity and dehomogenising, but that means actually doing it to all classes, not giving most of them at least 1 spec that can do everything amazingly, but leaving warlocks out.

    The only thing propping up affliction(and keeping it viable in raid) is the OP damage that is loaded into dark glare. But that's not fun and a terrible design.
    I did some napkin math, and based on my Lock, Drain Soul would need to do roughly 175% of current damage just to be identical to Shadowbolt in terms of DPS numbers. And that's on a dummy; add in any kind of movement or DoTs hitting pandemic range which causes you to cancel the channel early and it goes up even further. lol

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Moggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Give us Soul Flame back as a talent in the lvl 45(?) row as an option...maybe.
    Dunno about level it could be but was just remembering fondly how much dmg soul Flame from the artifact weapon did and how much it’s missed. Sure, slightly OP but that’s why numbers get tweaked! >.<

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    Dunno about level it could be but was just remembering fondly how much dmg soul Flame from the artifact weapon did and how much it’s missed. Sure, slightly OP but that’s why numbers get tweaked! >.<
    Just because it had a fancy animation doesn't mean it did that much damage. Here are the logs, don't look at Arcway, it's pure slime padding. We are missing old Seed and Wrath of Consumption, not Soul Flame.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...pec=Affliction

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