What do you consider to be good dps for a m+10?

[Kief]

At 430 item level both 25k and 30k are absolutely atrocious numbers to be pulling overall.

In 430 gear (assuming people have good 430 gear and not just whatever they found thats 430 ilvl) you comfortably pull 30k dps on bossfights and should without cooldowns be able to pull at least 45-50 on trash AoE.

For reference, with my holy paladin back when it was 430 (granted paladins are good at doing damage in m+) I would be pulling between 12-18k overall dps in runs depending on how much I focus on dealing damage to bosses.

A good tank similarly will pull 20-25k dps in 430 gear assuming they are not really bad at their class.

For damage specs, if you assume 430 optimized gear, any competent player will be pulling at the very least 35k overall but likely around 40k.

[Kaver]

I had a discussion with a friend and we couldn't agree on what good dps is for a m+10. In the discussion we agreed everyone has 430 ilvl on average in a m10. I said 30k overall dps on all 3 dps is good. He said 25k+ is good which I consider pretty low for ilvl 430. I know it depends a lot on the week and which class but imo good dps starts at overall 30k+.

Please no philosophical discussion that "good dps" is not only damage, but also support etc. I (we) are aware of that. But raw numbers, what you consider good for m10?

I'm saying 30-40 k depending on the pulls. With large pulls it should be easy to get around 40k and it is very possible to do big pulls in a +10.

- - - Updated - - -

For damage specs, if you assume 430 optimized gear, any competent player will be pulling at the very least 35k overall but likely around 40k.

Assuming the tank is not a chicken

[Waldor666]

You're dps should be consistent with the last two digits of your ilevel.

420 ilevel - 20k dps
430 ilevel - 30k dps

[Ange]

Obs depends on the skill of people also.

Last week i did a 17 freehold on teeming tyranical week, and when we hitted 100% trash and missing 3 bosses, the dps was aorund this:

...

EDIT: Shouldnt matter much if its a 10 or 15 either tbh, you tend to do the same damage, mby even higher in the lower keys since you can pull bigger.

Just from your last statement I can guess your main class.

10->15 in particular with fortified makes a hude difference if you play with normal classes with rump-up AoE.

Your eyebeam/bladeflurry is the only thing hitting low HP mobs till they instantly die in a 10+, while for a real huge pop-up with wings/unholy-wounds/breath of sindragosa the meta-burst specs gets the dump in overall damage done when the trash is living for more than 1-2 seconds.

My opinion to this topic is, it mostly depends on your tank and pullsize to specific times.

Big pulls every 1.5min is unholy dk's wet dream scenario. Outlaw rogues with BLOOD and on-use 1.5min trinket cant even peak for half of unholys end DPS in such pulls.
Big pulls every 2min and frost-dk/rets gona end up with insane dps in overall, since they cleave with their 2min cooldowns pretty hard.
Small pulls chained and the only thing you will see is outlaw/dh/bm-hunter in top numbers.

If your PUG tank is just a random ignorant player, you will most likely just see dh/outlaw/bm on top, since those dont have big cooldowns but can pad pretty easy on low keys with the instant burst.

Thats M+ for you. Stupid players get better results with easy meta-specs in the group. Who would have thought?

[Mardux]

Just from your last statement I can guess your main class.

10->15 in particular with fortified makes a hude difference if you play with normal classes with rump-up AoE.

Your eyebeam/bladeflurry is the only thing hitting low HP mobs till they instantly die in a 10+, while for a real huge pop-up with wings/unholy-wounds/breath of sindragosa the meta-burst specs gets the dump in overall damage done when the trash is living for more than 1-2 seconds.

My opinion to this topic is, it mostly depends on your tank and pullsize to specific times.

Big pulls every 1.5min is unholy dk's wet dream scenario. Outlaw rogues with BLOOD and on-use 1.5min trinket cant even peak for half of unholys end DPS in such pulls.
Big pulls every 2min and frost-dk/rets gona end up with insane dps in overall, since they cleave with their 2min cooldowns pretty hard.
Small pulls chained and the only thing you will see is outlaw/dh/bm-hunter in top numbers.

If your PUG tank is just a random ignorant player, you will most likely just see dh/outlaw/bm on top, since those dont have big cooldowns but can pad pretty easy on low keys with the instant burst.

Thats M+ for you. Stupid players get better results with easy meta-specs in the group. Who would have thought?

You just had to add to add that last part to call people who play certain specs stupid huh?

I play on a low pop alliance-dominated battlegroup. The talent pool for competent horde dh is relatively low and I usually end up being the only dh in the raid because our 2nd is solid, but can't make it every night due to school.

But I'm stupid for playing a dh. Nice.

[Flashforcash]

Just from your last statement I can guess your main class.

10->15 in particular with fortified makes a hude difference if you play with normal classes with rump-up AoE.

Your eyebeam/bladeflurry is the only thing hitting low HP mobs till they instantly die in a 10+, while for a real huge pop-up with wings/unholy-wounds/breath of sindragosa the meta-burst specs gets the dump in overall damage done when the trash is living for more than 1-2 seconds.

My opinion to this topic is, it mostly depends on your tank and pullsize to specific times.

Big pulls every 1.5min is unholy dk's wet dream scenario. Outlaw rogues with BLOOD and on-use 1.5min trinket cant even peak for half of unholys end DPS in such pulls.
Big pulls every 2min and frost-dk/rets gona end up with insane dps in overall, since they cleave with their 2min cooldowns pretty hard.
Small pulls chained and the only thing you will see is outlaw/dh/bm-hunter in top numbers.

If your PUG tank is just a random ignorant player, you will most likely just see dh/outlaw/bm on top, since those dont have big cooldowns but can pad pretty easy on low keys with the instant burst.

Thats M+ for you. Stupid players get better results with easy meta-specs in the group. Who would have thought?

im the so called stupid random ignorant tank then. But i never said bad classes with huge rampup will outsine a burst class? I said that the overall damage if your 430 is BAD if you only do 30k. You should do atleast 35-40k with 430, obs if you kill a pack in 1 sec your tank didnt pull big enough, a pull should easy last atleast 60-90 seconds where low ramp up classes can shine and still do their dps they should pull.

[klaps_05]

A DPS that interrupts and uses his toolkit (stuns, silences, disorients, etc).

Too many people are focused on DPS figures and forget that a +10 doesnt need some crazy DPS but just playing correctly.

[Ange]

But I'm stupid for playing a dh. Nice.

I was clearly overexaggerating, don't take it personaly.

To be honest with you, choosing a meta class in this MMO just to be wanted as a player is questionable at best. This is not a MOBA you actually spend hours/days/months/years with the same class and making a decision because of temporal balance issues is just ridiculous. If you go that route at least build a thicker skin.

[kek280]

I can do 40k - 45k average overall on most dungeons during any kind of week as a boomkin while off healing and being the knockback emissary bitch, so I would say that's the absolute minimum for doing 15s if you are a good aoe spec.

A lot of support bitch jobs don't actually lower your dps in any meaningful way if you are not shit, like kicking, knocking back, rooting certain mobs if necessary like the white emissaries or taking talents like force of nature, I don't know why people use this excuse to cheat their own team and themselves and be ok with doing shit dps, just get good.

[Mardux]

I was clearly overexaggerating, don't take it personaly.

To be honest with you, choosing a meta class in this MMO just to be wanted as a player is questionable at best. This is not a MOBA you actually spend hours/days/months/years with the same class and making a decision because of temporal balance issues is just ridiculous. If you go that route at least build a thicker skin.

Nah, you weren't clearly overexaggering anything. You were clearly calling people who play something that is meta now stupid, even if they've been maining the same class for years.

[Snackpack]

25k is a bit low for 430ilvl, but should probably be enough for a 10 key.

[parasight]

If r.io isn't involved then you have to be 430+ in order to have a chance at getting a spot in a group doing a 10+. Chances are extremely high that there are other people in queue that you're competing with.

That said, I'll take someone with experience over ilvl by as much as 10 lvls in places like Shrine of the Storm and some other instances, depending on the affixes.

[Tojara]

There actually isn't a right answer to this, and I sort of eye roll when I see people throwing out numbers, especially if you're talking about 10s. Super high keys are a bit different, at least if you want to chest them in the timer, so DPS numbers as an overall group metric is going to be a bit more uniform. That's because if you don't pull big in these keys, you won't make the timer.

What people don't realize is that certain keys and affixes aren't the same, so there isn't a tidy answer to this. You as a rogue aren't going to do as much damage in a key if you're pulling 4-5 mobs at a time, as opposed to another group doing 15 mobs at a time. There's just no way to compete, and by comparison you might think that the other rogue is literally 3x as good as you, but it simply isn't true.

Another factor that people need to consider is mobs have no time to breathe on lower key levels, so classes that have frequent innate burst that essentially lines up with every pull are going to 'steal' AoE from the entire group. If you're a class that's main damage source is tied around 2/3 minute CDs, your damage isn't going to look great in 'smaller' keys unless the pulls being done are coordinated and played around said DPS CDs. Without thinking, getting CDs on CD is generally the safe play in non-organized play, but in reality you should be pulling as big as you possibly can when you have multiple DPS CDs available. This is what separates organized players who play at top end, from those who do lower keys in the pug life. With all of that said, it's unlikely that people using 2/3 min CDs on giant pulls are going to have them up long enough for a giant pull on a low keystone anyways, because shit's just going to melt.

My post essentially didn't give a DPS number, and it's a pretty long winded way of saying IDK. The only way you deplete 10s is if you're pulling a single pack at a time and taking a considerable amount of time doing it, or wiping. Unless you're moving at a snails pace, it's pretty hard to actually deplete keys for even the slowest groups unless you actually have lots of deaths or a wipe.

When I do carries for people with a couple geared DPS, the DPS in my group sometimes do high 20 to lower 30s on some 10-13 keys. These however are the same players that pull 40 to 45k DPS pretty consistently when doing 15+ keys though. The only difference is mobs have more health in those keys, it's a bit more organized, and the CDs they use generally last the entire pack. Your 2 min CD that lasts 20 seconds probably is going to be fully effective in smaller keys, because shit's going to explode.

If I had to throw numbers at shit.

20k per DPS is going to chest 10s and 35k per DPS is going to chest 15s.

Also don't compare yourself to rogues, the class is broken and Blizzards retarded.

[Dezminion]

People who don’t die is doing good dps.

Indeed, I very much agree with this

A DPS that interrupts and uses his toolkit (stuns, silences, disorients, etc).

Too many people are focused on DPS figures and forget that a +10 doesnt need some crazy DPS but just playing correctly.

And I agree with this too very much.

People tend to have a serious crush for DPS/HPS/GrannysPantiesPS

[Ashina]

25k overall and playing right is enough.

[Mashanerz]

I had a discussion with a friend and we couldn't agree on what good dps is for a m+10. In the discussion we agreed everyone has 430 ilvl on average in a m10. I said 30k overall dps on all 3 dps is good. He said 25k+ is good which I consider pretty low for ilvl 430. I know it depends a lot on the week and which class but imo good dps starts at overall 30k+.

Please no philosophical discussion that "good dps" is not only damage, but also support etc. I (we) are aware of that. But raw numbers, what you consider good for m10?

Your friend is right, if everyone pulls 25k you'll key the dungeon no problem.

ilvl 430 char's CAN pull higher though, but then you're just pushing the metric around to fit whatever you think.

Class, spec, and affix all play a part. For example, as a rogue, if you're outlaw, 25k seems pretty low for that ilvl. Sure someone ilvl 430 could easily pull 35k or more. An outlaw rogue can easily do 40k at that ilvl....and by easy I mean they don't have to be exceptional, mediocre rogues can do it.

But if you're just talking about "good to complete a +10 in time" then 25k is enough.

[Staboteur]

There's of course a minimum DPS requirement to time a key regardless of level but you can get away with low DPS if the run is super clean otherwise. People interrupting the correct thing, using CC as interrupts, focusing the correct target, not taking too much avoidable damage & just generally doing mechanics correctly (including managing affixes correctly).

3 DPS averaging 20-25k but doing the run clean with very little downtime & 0 deaths will almost always time a 10, generally +2 as well. Obviously doing higher DPS & still doing it clean is preferable but people get hung up on DPS too much when it's very rarely the deciding factor other than at the very high end of things.

[Kaver]

You're dps should be consistent with the last two digits of your ilevel.

420 ilevel - 20k dps
430 ilevel - 30k dps

Make that:

420 ilvl - 30k dps
430 ilvl - 40k dps

Assuming good gearing.

[Phon]

Depends on how big pulls the tank are making.

[Shakou]

To be clear if you're seriously asking what kind of dps you should be doing in a 10 you're not good at the game.