Do you want tinkers?

[CamdenQ]

And dark ranger will fit that role better since we have never gotten a new range dps. Necromancer is another good one since undead is somewhat the weakness of the void

Why would you assume Tinker wouldn't have a ranged dps spec? They're literally engineers as a class, but they're going to forego awesome rifles for pointy sticks? Seems unlikely. I've literally never played any game with an engineer-type class where that class didn't even have the option of ranged dps, specifically with guns.

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Any lore argument against any class is invalid in my opinion. Warcraft lore is inconsistent at the best of times, and two out of three added classes already had to bend the lore to exist.

Current generation Death Knights are Scourge-only and made from humans? No problem, let us invent a third generation, that can be close to any race, which rebels against Arthas!

Demon Hunters are a very rare sight and their mentor is presumed dead? Pft. Let's have Illidan be both alive and retconned into a good guy, and hide a small army of Azeroth-friendly DHs in Marduum and the Vault of the Wardens. Voilà, DH playable.

Hell even Monks are a slight stretch. No one could teach these skills? Nonsense, the mists around Pandaria part and already there's dozens of kung fu pandas eager to share their knowledge with hapless level 1s.

If Blizzard wants a class to happen, it WILL happen come hell or high water. They sure won't give two fucks if they have to give the lore a beating while they do it. So let's not try with these ''well Tinkers aren't that well represented guys'' or ''well Necromancers are baddies!'' arguments that I see.

I think you might be surprised what most people would consider "bending" lore.

Adding a new generation of Death Knights fits perfectly within the established lore. Hell, even the scourge-specific human generation you're talking about is a bigger deviation from the first generation than the third is from the second, since the first generation used Fel magic to bind orc souls to human bodies. Also, the third generation DKs WERE still all scourge, they just broke free. Guess what? That's exactly what Sylvanas and the Lordaeron Scourge did to become Forsaken.

With the Demon Hunters, the very reason they're a rare sight is that they left Azeroth with Illidan. They weren't very rare at all in Shadowmoon Valley or Outland in general. Illidan being retconned into a "good guy" (HEAVY scare quotes on that one, really just not a villain) is the REASON they made Demon Hunters playable by the way, not the other way around. There was no way Blizzard would be able to get away with an expansion that was all about fighting the Burning Legion and featured the return of Illidan without making Demon Hunters playable. There would have been rioting in the streets. Hell, if BC had come after WotLK and the advent of the DK hero class, we'd have gotten Demon Hunters much earlier.

The Monks thing you're trying to say doesn't even make proper sense. How does the fact that a bunch of these pandas, who, mind you, had been almost completely unable to leave their island for millennia, took the first opportunity they've ever had to see the world and in the process spread the pretty ubiquitous-to-them fighting styles of the August Celestials in any way even begin to challenge existing lore?

Honestly, the phrase you're looking for is "build upon" rather than "bend".

[Lochton]

Engineering items expire and require preperation. A Tinker does not.

Got a source for that?

Sure, let me find it for you.

Profession
Engineering

- Has cooldowns based on being out of combat.
- Has extended cooldown vs. damage to not be viable.
- Has material cost which can't be collecting during the fight.
- Has limited amount (remember, we don't use ammo anymore).

Benefits: You can share some of the items with non-engineers, and others you can't.

Vs.

The Tinker Teams
Razaks Roughriders
Gazlowes Greasemonkeys

- Has abilities within the same theme as Engineering, yet with far superior cooldown to damage ratio.
- Has abilities within the same theme as Engineering, yet with far superior cooldown so they can use their abilities while in combat far more often.
- Has abilities within the same theme as Engineering, yet with far superior damage than the item created from Engineering.
- Has abilities within the same theme as Engineering, yet with far superior resource cost vs. material cost.
- Has abilities within the same theme as Engineering, yet with far superior usage as it is not limited as an ammunition.

Downside: You can't share your items with anyone, but who cares, not like you ask the hunter to share his traps.

[Skulltaker]

Sure, let me find it for you.

Profession
Engineering

- Has cooldowns based on being out of combat.
- Has extended cooldown vs. damage to not be viable.
- Has material cost which can't be collecting during the fight.
- Has limited amount (remember, we don't use ammo anymore).

Benefits: You can share some of the items with non-engineers, and others you can't.

Vs.

The Tinker Teams
Razaks Roughriders
Gazlowes Greasemonkeys

- Has abilities within the same thematics as Engineering, yet with far superior cooldown to damage ratio.
- Has abilities within the same thematics as Engineering, yet with far superior cooldown so they can use their abilities while in combat far more often.
- Has abilities within the same thematics as Engineering, yet with far superior damage than the item created from Engineering.
- Has abilities within the same thematics as Engineering, yet with far superior resource cost vs. material cost.
- Has abilities within the same thematics as Engineering, yet with far superior usage as it is not limited as an ammunition.

Downside: You can't share your items with anyone, but who cares, not like you ask the hunter to share his traps.

And you can provide a source on the Greasemonkeys and Roughnecks being Tinkers? Anything that names them Tinkers? I'm looking forward to that. Wow-pedia, whom you listed as a source earlier, has them listed as Engineers. They are just better than the players.

[kaminaris]

Are we still seriously tolkien bout engineering profession?

I mean come on, you can fool a 3y old, at best.




You know you can weave your hands and imagine spells coming out. The same level of delusion that somehow engineering is close to having playable tinker class.

Or you can buy a $5 plastic air gun and imagine being spec ops.

Please stop this nonsense, it's not even funny anymore, nobody is taking you seriously that somehow toys can replace a class.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Do not fucking implement that shit.

Bring necromancers and get it over with. Any argument in opposition is purely subjective and backed by nothing but your beliefs.
.

Haha, yeah, as if your opinions are somehow above the rest.

You want Necromancers rather than Tinkers. Purely subjective and backed by nothing but your feels.
In the end, you'll be able to dictate it about as much as people could dictate the theme of playable Monks. Aka, it'll happen if the developers want it to happen.

[Lochton]

And you can provide a source on the Greasemonkeys and Roughnecks being Tinkers? Anything that names them Tinkers? I'm looking forward to that. Wow-pedia, whom you listed as a source earlier, has them listed as Engineers. They are just better than the players.

... can you prove that they are not?

Of these two teams, only Gazlowe has been given a designation as 'Engineer'. Already having 'Engineer' as a class by WoW-pedia just means others have accepted that he's higher than just Engineering as a profession but as you seem to shrug that, the five others have no class designation at all.

[Skulltaker]

... can you prove that they are not?

Of these two teams, only Gazlowe has been given a designation as 'Engineer'. Already having 'Engineer' as a class by WoW-pedia just means others have accepted that he's higher than just Engineering as a profession but as you seem to shrug that, the five others have no class designation at all.

I don't have to. You're the one trying to make a case that Tinker isn't just a fancy name for engineers, not me. The burden of proof falls to you. And from that answer I'll take away that you have nothing, and Tinkers are nothing else but Engineers.

[kaminaris]

I don't have to. You're the one trying to make a case that Tinker isn't just a fancy name for engineers, not me. The burden of proof falls to you. And from that answer I'll take away that you have nothing, and Tinkers are nothing else but Engineers.

Yes you do, we have proofs tinkers has been in game as NPCs with cool abilities. Look at this post: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51506782

You can't fool anyone. Also enchanters are mages so we remove mages, and we remove warriors cause blacksmiths can produce plate armor and swords, no need for these classes as profession can fulfill their roles.

[Ielenia]

Yes you do,

No, we don't. The onus of proof falls upon those that make the claims.

we have proofs tinkers has been in game as NPCs with cool abilities.

Titles.

[Skulltaker]

Yes you do, we have proofs tinkers has been in game as NPCs with cool abilities. Look at this post: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51506782

You can't fool anyone. Also enchanters are mages so we remove mages, and we remove warriors cause blacksmiths can produce plate armor and swords, no need for these classes as profession can fulfill their roles.

Name one NPC whi is a Tinker by class. I'll be waiting. Not one ability that so-called Tinkers have cannot be attributed to Engineers. Not a single one. Name one. Go on. ONE.

If your best argument is posting memes, I'd recommend you do some soul searching, because making a point is definitely not your strong suit.

You have head canon. And that is it. You have dreamed up this magical illusion that Tinkers, by some chance of fate, are anything different than engineers. They are not.

And again. Name ONE ability that Enchanters have that mages do aswell, you pathetic little liar. ONE. Name ONE. Name ONE ability that Warriors have that are tied to blacksmithing. ONE. Name ONE thing Blacksmiths do that ties them to Warriors. ONE. ONE SINGLE THING.

You can't? To bad. Story of your life.

[DotEleven]

Name one NPC whi is a Tinker by class. I'll be waiting. Not one ability that so-called Tinkers have cannot be attributed to Engineers. Not a single one. Name one. Go on. ONE.

If your best argument is posting memes, I'd recommend you do some soul searching, because making a point is definitely not your strong suit.

You have head canon. And that is it. You have dreamed up this magical illusion that Tinkers, by some chance of fate, are anything different than engineers. They are not.

And again. Name ONE ability that Enchanters have that mages do aswell, you pathetic little liar. ONE. Name ONE. Name ONE ability that Warriors have that are tied to blacksmithing. ONE. Name ONE thing Blacksmiths do that ties them to Warriors. ONE. ONE SINGLE THING.

You can't? To bad. Story of your life.

Gelbin Mekkatorque

[Skulltaker]

Gelbin Mekkatorque

Source? Because 'High Tinker' is a title.

So far, he was labeled as a Warrior. He uses Thunder Clap. Gelbin is an exceptional Engineer, for sure. Maybe the best one originating from Azeroth. But that alone doesn't make him a Tinker by class.

[DotEleven]

Source? Because 'High Tinker' is a title.

So far, he was labeled as a Warrior. He uses Thunder Clap. Gelbin is an exceptional Engineer, for sure. Maybe the best one originating from Azeroth. But that alone doesn't make him a Tinker by class.

I mean, since we're using wowpedia.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gelbin_Mekkatorque

[Skulltaker]

I mean, since we're using wowpedia.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gelbin_Mekkatorque

So, class, warrior, occupation Tinker. Thank you.

[DotEleven]

So, class, warrior, occupation Tinker. Thank you.

Your warrior is "citation needed". He might've used Thunder Clap once upon a time, but since BFA they gave him his mech.

I mean, how many "warriors" do you see doing this?

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/high-...uide#phase-one

[Skulltaker]

Your warrior is "citation needed". He might've used Thunder Clap once upon a time, but since BFA they gave him his mech.

I mean, how many "warriors" do you see doing this?

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/high-...uide#phase-one

Dude, you quoted WoW-Pedia. What exactly did you try to prove with your last post?

As for warriors: All of them who picked Engineer as a Profession and have sufficient skill, like Mekkatorque.

Again, can you cite him being a Tinker by Class? No? That's what I thought.

Shoot lightning? Engineers can do that. Create exploding bots? Engineers can do that. Rocket-jump? Goblins can do that.

So, what again am I supposed to look at there? Nothing special? That's what I thought.

How many Blacksmiths do you see forging items like The Ashbringer?

As has been established: NPCs by far outmatch PCs. Gelbin is an exceptional Engineer, just like whomever made the Ashbringer was an exceptional blacksmith. Unrivaled by the players. So?

Off for the night.

[DotEleven]

Dude, you quoted WoW-Pedia. What exactly did you try to prove with your last post?

As for warriors: All of them who picked Engineer as a Profession and have sufficient skill, like Mekkatorque.

Again, can you cite him being a Tinker by Class? No? That's what I thought.

Shoot lightning? Engineers can do that. Create exploding bots? Engineers can do that. Rocket-jump? Goblins can do that.

So, what again am I supposed to look at there? Nothing special? That's what I thought.

How many Blacksmiths do you see forging items like The Ashbringer?

As has been established: NPCs by far outmatch PCs. Gelbin is an exceptional Engineer, just like whomever made the Ashbringer was an exceptional blacksmith. Unrivaled by the players. So?

Off for the night.

No, not any warrior who picks up engineering can do what Gelbin did there.

But since you're gonna be a dick about it.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Master_Tinker_Trini
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinkerer_Sniggles

Oh, and for a bonus showing both Engineer AND Tinker not just as class, but SEPARATE classes.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sicco_Thermaplugg

[Teriz]

No, we don't. The onus of proof falls upon those that make the claims.


Titles.

So we just randomly have a set of characters using Tinker abilities from HotS, and one of them just happens to be the major Tinker lore character from HotS?

Okay.

[DotEleven]

So we just randomly have a set of characters using Tinker abilities from HotS, and one of them just happens to be the major Tinker lore character from HotS?

Okay.

Dude, he's just never going to get it because he refuses to take in any information he doesn't like. Hell, even when he contradicts himself he can't see it.

[Ielenia]

So we just randomly have a set of characters using Tinker abilities from HotS, and one of them just happens to be the major Tinker lore character from HotS?

HotS is not canon to WoW.

Okay? Okay.

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Dude, he's just never going to get it because he refuses to take in any information he doesn't like. Hell, even when he contradicts himself he can't see it.

I never contradicted myself in this thread.