PTR SPOILERS The Cenarion Circle's Priorities

[Mehrunes]

We also free a lot of prisoners in the dark shore scenario, they can't rise that many with just two valkyrs that rezz them one by one and with a lot of the dead unwilling to follow.

The three Val'kyr at Deathknell were resurrecting hundreds daily in Cataclysm, so that's not really accurate.

[Tripzzz]

The three Val'kyr at Deathknell were resurrecting hundreds daily in Cataclysm, so that's not really accurate.

Cataclysm was 9 years ago... What we saw in Darkshore was a couple months ago... So it's actually very accurate. Continuity doesn't even matter. Bringing up old shit is fucking pointless. Blizzard contradicts themselves all the damn time, only the current shit matters and even that will eventually be retconned. It's always been New lore >>>>> Old lore.

[Mehrunes]

Cataclysm was 9 years ago... What we saw in Darkshore was a couple months ago... So it's actually very accurate. Continuity doesn't even matter. Bringing up old shit is fucking pointless. Blizzard contradicts themselves all the damn time, only the current shit matters and even that will eventually be retconned. It's always been New lore >>>>> Old lore.

Yeah, no. Nothing from Cata in that regard has been retconned. If you want to harp on game scale and point at few Night Elves being resurrected in-game go ahead. But that's monumentally weak argument because the amount of Night Elves resurrected in Darkshore in-game actually surpasses the amount of Forsaken resurrected in Deathknell in-game. And yet the smaller number in Deathknell translated to hundreds daily in lore, as explained in a later quest in Silverpine. It's always been new lore > old lore when, you know, there actually has been a case of Blizzard contradicting themselves like you mentioned. And you haven't established that being the case here for squat. Then again that's utterly unsurprising.

[Hellspawn]

But that's monumentally weak argument because the amount of Night Elves resurrected in Darkshore in-game actually surpasses the amount of Forsaken resurrected in Deathknell in-gam

Stop making stuff up. We don't know how many get resurrected. In the Warfront we see like 5 of them and in a later scenario there is just one.

[Aucald]

I don't even think its short sighted. Sylvanas is a threat to all life. With all the blight and crap she is tossing around, stopping her means less lands destroyed as well as less beings wiped out.

I don't think that's what Malfurion is thinking in the heat of the moment, as it were; though it's likely not far from his thoughts either. "Protect/revenge my people" is probably foremost, but after the fires are banked he'd probably still agree with the rationale that Sylvanas must be stopped in any case.

[Mehrunes]

Stop making stuff up. We don't know how many get resurrected. In the Warfront we see like 5 of them and in a later scenario there is just one.

But in the part you quoted (or more specifically, cherry-picked) I was speaking about what we saw in-game. You know, the exact same thing that you did. So if we "don't know how many got resurrected" in-game (you know, the thing I was talking about) as you claimed in the second sentence here, how comes you managed to give specific numbers of precisely that in the very next sentence? Could it be you didn't understand what you were replying to? Even if you did, weird choice of things to cherry-picking either way.

[Eggroll]

Too bad that Sadfang is already on Manduin's payroll.

Good, we'll skin them both alive

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Stop making stuff up. We don't know how many get resurrected. In the Warfront we see like 5 of them and in a later scenario there is just one.

6 too many??? For it to be sold as "vengeance for Teldrassil"?? I'm still waiting for the vengeance to happen...

[Tripzzz]

Yeah, no. Nothing from Cata in that regard has been retconned. If you want to harp on game scale and point at few Night Elves being resurrected in-game go ahead. But that's monumentally weak argument because the amount of Night Elves resurrected in Darkshore in-game actually surpasses the amount of Forsaken resurrected in Deathknell in-game. And yet the smaller number in Deathknell translated to hundreds daily in lore, as explained in a later quest in Silverpine. It's always been new lore > old lore when, you know, there actually has been a case of Blizzard contradicting themselves like you mentioned. And you haven't established that being the case here for squat. Then again that's utterly unsurprising.

In game =/= lore. How many times does this have to be explained to you??

[baskev]

Since when does the story in wow about population numbers?

Not numbers, but parts of groups....look at how they described blood elves.

Also on Teldrassil were mostly civilian and they got so many of them to Stormwind that they could not all fit into the city.

You clearly did not play the alliance version of the darkshore events. When you try to rescue as many people from teldrassil. you never get a lot of them. i think 10% is normal before you fade to black and it ends. And less elf childeren means less population for the future?

We also free a lot of prisoners in the dark shore scenario, they can't rise that many with just two valkyrs that rezz them one by one and with a lot of the dead unwilling to follow.

Yup...but do we save all of the. a lot does not mean most.

Night elfs usually only wins offscreen but there was actually a cinematic in the 8.1 ptr that showed that night elf won there. But I guess it would have been to confusing why we would do the warfront afterwards.

Yup, so its not canon.

Al we got is see a lot of us murdered in the pre battle ( and killed in their sleep if the horde players choose this).
Seen our city burn, we try to get as many people out but you will always pass out before any normal numbers.
And many get ressed to undead ranks. If you see how many dark archers we meet so far...it was more then a "few" they ressed.

[Mehrunes]

Yup, so its not canon.

How many times does it need to be repeated to you that books are canon?

[Mehrunes]

In game =/= lore. How many times does this have to be explained to you??

In-game events are still lore. What the hell are you talking about? You do realize I was referring to not Deathknell alone as it's portrayed with game-scale (which obviously isn't lore and I never claimed it is), but a Silverpine quest describing it? Or did you not go this far into my post before you decided you have enough material for your next shitty gotcha that fell flat on its face as per usual?

Until it favors his side of the argument on a separate occasion ofc.

Putting aside the fact that in-game events most certainly are lore, making your overall remark here devoid of any substance to begin with, are you capable of actually supporting your accusations here or are you just talking shit for the sake of talking shit? And doing so in extremely courageous way of not even doing so in a reply to me?

[baskev]

How many times does it need to be repeated to you that books are canon?

Yup books can be canon if they do not conflict with the main media ( the game in this case). And sometimes they conflict with eachother. That is why i always use main media over extra media.
And he was talking about a 8.1 ptr thing that did not happen live version of the game....so .......books have nothing to do with it.

[Rozz]

Yup books can be canon if they do not conflict with the main media ( the game in this case). And sometimes they conflict with eachother. That is why i always use main media over extra media.
And he was talking about a 8.1 ptr thing that did not happen live version of the game....so .......books have nothing to do with it.

That's not necessarily true. The game uses books to build upon storylines that were incomplete, unable to fit, or too clunky. The only time you would ignore book info is the same time you'd ignore game info -- when the devs choose which version they prefer for the narrative. Neither is any more or less canon in terms of events that occur, since both are treated as 'main media' for lore. The books aren't like the MCU to the comic MU, they're both the MU.

[Mehrunes]

Yup books can be canon if they do not conflict with the main media ( the game in this case). And sometimes they conflict with eachother. That is why i always use main media over extra media.
And he was talking about a 8.1 ptr thing that did not happen live version of the game....so .......books have nothing to do with it.

There's no "can be canon" here. The books are canon by default and Blizzard treats them as such.

[Tripzzz]

In-game events are still lore. What the hell are you talking about? You do realize I was referring to not Deathknell alone as it's portrayed with game-scale (which obviously isn't lore and I never claimed it is), but a Silverpine quest describing it? Or did you not go this far into my post before you decided you have enough material for your next shitty gotcha that fell flat on its face as per usual?

You making a comparison of the in game scale between Darkshore and Deathknell is simply stupid. Deathknell is a small starting zone. The silverpine quest confirms 100s being raised daily there but there is no such confirmation for the number of night elves raised in Darkshore. What we see in game after the event is over is 6 raised night elves. That's it.

What falls flat on it's face is trying to imply that the number of night elves raised in Darkshore is larger than the number or forsaken raised in Deathknell based on in game scaling. Which is what you did. As if Blizzard actually thought about that.... How the hell can you not understand something so simple??? In game =/= lore.

[Wangming]

that scenario is also marked as DNT, as Do Not Translate

meaning it's not the final version and is probably a placeholder, because nossy kids like you keep datamining everything, depraving WoW of any mystery or surprises

Cause WoW is famous for having great twists.

[Tripzzz]

If you want to harp on game scale and point at few Night Elves being resurrected in-game go ahead. But that's monumentally weak argument because the amount of Night Elves resurrected in Darkshore in-game actually surpasses the amount of Forsaken resurrected in Deathknell in-game. And yet the smaller number in Deathknell translated to hundreds daily in lore, as explained in a later quest in Silverpine.

Here's the relevent part of the quote. You are using in game scaling for your argument that it's implied the number is large, when there are no quests or references to the amount of night elves raised in darkshore surpassing the dead humans raised in Deathknell. And using other in game references we see less than 10 loyal undead night elves. So who is actually cherrypicking here?

[bowlink]

There's no "can be canon" here. The books are canon by default and Blizzard treats them as such.

Books are cannon unless when they aren't which happens alot

[Aucald]

Books are cannon unless when they aren't which happens alot

That's not really how it works, though. The only "books" to be explicitly non-canonized are the RPG materials. Every other novel, short story, or comic is indeed canon. Some elements of a specific comic, specifically Med'an and his role as Guardian have been explicitly decanonized as well, but only that aspect of the comic and so all of its other events are still canon and even represented in game. The Med'an issue functions more as errata than it does explicit de-canonization of a material source (as in the authors of the comic should never have made the claim).

[baskev]

That's not necessarily true. The game uses books to build upon storylines that were incomplete, unable to fit, or too clunky. The only time you would ignore book info is the same time you'd ignore game info -- when the devs choose which version they prefer for the narrative. Neither is any more or less canon in terms of events that occur, since both are treated as 'main media' for lore. The books aren't like the MCU to the comic MU, they're both the MU.

I am not talking about mian or alternate. Nor am i saying we should ignore books. But when lets say in the main media ( in this case game) thrall is green, But the books make him dark green. I am going with the game.
And they contradict themselves sometimes. We have red shirt guy as a example.

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There's no "can be canon" here. The books are canon by default and Blizzard treats them as such.

......again.....was not talking about the books. We where talking about a ptr patch.

As for the books. Not saying they are not canon ( for the 1001 time). I am saying when they contradict eachother in such a way it can not be explained. The main media ( in this case game) goes before the books.
If books make things more clear about the game then yeah...they are canon. But if they contradict it....part of the book or the book as whole is not canon.