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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I work in banking and earlier this year after we bought another bank, and converted to their system, guess what? When we got all the new printers, computers, and software, we had to come in on Sunday for a couple hours to test it all and make sure it was good to go on Monday. We didn't inconvenience customers further by deciding to do it Monday morning, we came in on Sunday to test it out. It's not an alien idea.
    Of course, but it’s not a massive change like that is it. It’s another launch, something they’ve done plenty of times with a certain model and strategy. It makes zero sense for them to change that when it effects very little.

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    Of course, but it’s not a massive change like that is it. It’s another launch, something they’ve done plenty of times with a certain model and strategy. It makes zero sense for them to change that when it effects very little.
    Did they ever do a name reservation? Even back in 2004? I don't think so, correct me if I'm wrong if you played Vanilla. If not, then this was the first time they ever had to host a "name reservation." Sure, it's easier to not inconvenience their work staff by doing it on a traditional work day, assuming it's even a lot of work at all considering people were reserving names well into the night presumably long after work hours when there was no one from Blizzard even at offices (meaning much of it is automated), but by doing so they're essentially inconveniencing all of their 18-34 customer base instead. A vast majority of us were at our jobs. But whatever, it's no skin off their nose if they do it at the most goofball time frame for their most loyal customer base, but it doesn't mean they're immune from criticism from those of us that might have wanted first crack at our favorite names that likely went to the High School Junior that doesn't have to support himself and is just home on summer vacation.

    Maybe it's just sour grapes since I was literally on vacation for two weeks and name reservation landed exactly on my first day back to work, but it still sounds like bullshit to me.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Did they ever do a name reservation? Even back in 2004? I don't think so, correct me if I'm wrong if you played Vanilla. If not, then this was the first time they ever had to host a "name reservation." Sure, it's easier to not inconvenience their work staff by doing it on a traditional work day, assuming it's even a lot of work at all considering people were reserving names well into the night presumably long after work hours when there was no one from Blizzard even at offices (meaning much of it is automated), but by doing so they're essentially inconveniencing all of their 18-34 customer base instead. A vast majority of us were at our jobs. But whatever, it's no skin off their nose if they do it at the most goofball time frame for their most loyal customer base, but it doesn't mean they're immune from criticism from those of us that might have wanted first crack at our favorite names that likely went to the High School Junior that doesn't have to support himself and is just home on summer vacation.

    Maybe it's just sour grapes since I was literally on vacation for two weeks and name reservation landed exactly on my first day back to work, but it still sounds like bullshit to me.
    It's still essentially opening of the servers though, which will always have a large influx of people logging on. Things did break a little and they fixed them pretty quick, but they still need the support of their staff and external staff (such as the company that hosts their data servers in the U.S. and EU) to be ready. It's much, much easier to coordinate that on days where they know people will be working - especially as it's the summer period as well.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    I started playing it because it was the first MMORPG offering at least some content for casual gamers.

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    You can see the whole zone as well nowadays, as you do not outlevel it. Beside that, no, leveling those days was not more meaningful than nowadays. It was about reaching maximum level, and the moment of the first time. The last will not return in a remake. Nowadays, everyone knows everything about world of warcraft. It is not about the game having changed that much, but about the gamers.

    And believe me. People will notice that classic reloaded is not what they expected. Sure, it will begin strong, with millions of players creating a char. Yet.. most, the vast majority, is going to stop playing once they discover how dull leveling was in classic and that you had nothing to do at endgame level if you did not want to commit to a group of players and forget about your real life to a degree.

    Actually WoW Classic even was the worst incarnation of WoW up to now, as it created unemployed nolifers who dwelled in battlegrounds to become grand marshal or who raided Naxxramas with 39 other full time addicts. And this horrible implementation is going to return? With blizzard exactly knowing how many lifes got destroyed with their awkward implementation of time investment mattering that much, combined with the drug-like character of the classic skinner boxes?

    Actually, i see it as a complete misconception to create those addicts again with a classic reboot, repeating the same mistakes again and make people addicts. Blizzard shows their social incompetence on recreating a gameplay of World of Warcraft which leads to a massive amount of gaming addiction and destroyed lifes.

    I really wonder how any of those "developers" is able to look into a mirror without noticing what they are up to create.. again.



    Yeah, but sheer time investment isnt that. And that is all what wow classic was about, with way less lore and quests as you have nowadays, with the need to grind at level 5x if you do not play dungeons to continue leveling. WoW was.. horrible. A drug, created by vicious drug dealers who call themself "game designers". They should really be ashamed of what effects classic had to players those days.



    A paragon system would be an interesting idea, but i would repair the dull world content first. Sending thousands of turtles into the water, while having no story told doing so, and that in a hundred incarnations, without any engaging gameplay, is nothing i would call compelling.



    Which just asked you to grind for gold. Nothing else was the outcome.



    No, a hassle does not make a game a good game. Effort which is fun does. Well told story and lore does. Flow does. Mystery does. An execution challenge does. A mental challenge does.

    But hassle? Probably in the limited universe of a wow world quest designer, yes. But not in normal players minds.
    You disliked wow from the beginning, but you played it because it was the first MMORPG where you could be casual - but then saying it was all about getting to Max (the not-so-casual-raider approach). Call me confused. Personally I walk away from things I don't like (if possible - and it is possible in case of a pc game or book or movie or music or ...). Yet here you are 15 years later. Call me confused.

    But the reason I replay again is the comparrison between Wow dev's and drugdealers. Sure Wow is build upon the "reward system" that "triggers" most people. But so is every other MMO I know of - although not nearly as bad as say Facebook. But my biggest point is this:

    I live in the capitol of my country, we got plenty of drugdealers here. But I've never touched any drug in my life (appart from weed which wasn't for me) despite of that. Why? Because I know drugs would be bad for me and no drugdealer will ever change my mind. It's my choice and my will is what I'm saying. Same goes for pc-games like WoW. If I destroyed my life and family because of a pc game (drug) it would be my bad choice alone. Self control and taking responsibility for your own choices is whats its all about while navigating a world of temptations (addictove pc-games. social media or actual drugs)

  5. #85
    Stood in the Fire Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    run animations of classic are 1 of the 2 main reasons for classic for me.

    no longer bouncing anime unrealistic idiot characters. and no longer motion sickness cause of it.
    I meant for the new Worgen models. But I agree on Classic animations. My Tauren female hunter has not been herself since WoD.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Daeveren View Post
    These are "mega-servers", each of them being able to accomodate the likes of 10x the capacity of original realms, presumably scalable to infinity, as needed. They could very well have just one.
    The entire principle of Classic is to NOT have to deal with such things. Having a fixed community without the shuffling of sharding is one of the core point of the demands, and the layering is supposed to only last the first couple of weeks.

    I suppose that having so few servers is to ensure that they don't become ghost towns after the initial spike (I expect a lot of people giving up during leveling too), but what will Blizzard do if the population is still too high when layering reach the end of its supposed life ?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I wouldn't wake up at 5:30 AM to reserve video game character name, I'd rather sleep until 7:45.
    Me too, but I meant I get up at 5:30 AM to go to work

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    WoW was modeled after it, not copy and pasted, just like most MMO's of the time. D&D is where many Western RPG's took their influence. Classes require certain items to be able to perform certain task, this is akin to needing shaman needing Ahkn's, Priest needing candles, etc. The difference is, WoW made them be consumed on use, as they adjusting for an MMO format. D&D had more in depth class advancement, WoW had to reign that in for the MMO setting, but you still have that overall class/specialization identity, something retail does not have.

    When I'm talking about traditional RPG elements, I'm talking about the subtle nuances that fleshed things out. There were reasons your character could use this ability, cast this spell, act this way, and so on. Not to say that this is a better method than retail, as they are just two different approaches to playing the game.
    I would argue the spec identity is better on modern WoW. Maybe classes are now less important than specs but thats because specs are what define you as a character faaaaaar more than in vanilla. You still are able to use all of them (warrior is one click away for being a dps or a tank).

    You could use actions, abilities, spells because you learned them, either from class progression sheet or buying from a class trainer (wow). Sure, there were class specific quests to obtain certain abilities (paladin/lock mounts, lock demons, etc) but overall criteria to use x ability was - buy it from trainer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cateran100 View Post
    You can`t be a too long time player if you can`t see the similarities..The armor and weapon restricitions per class, the restricitions of race/class combos...Just shouting and crying out loudly: I came from D&D...Crushed spaceship? "The FSS Beagle was a Space Ship from the Galactic Federation that got lost during a miss-jump and ended up in Mystara Space. Due to technical problems, it crashed on the Planet. It landed in what later became known as the Valley of the Ancients, south of Blackmoor. The Ship itself was referred to as the City of the Gods." from the 80`s....

    The word what you looking for is "influenced"...obviously not used 1:1, but the similarities are there...too many and too much of them

    BTW your description about traditional RPG...nah, it`s the acting as actor...playing a role and interacting with the story and GM (Director) As D&D was the first full tabletop RPG funny to say, it is not traditional...
    In that case i can safely say it was influenced by Warhammer and not DND.

    Savage orcs fighting human kingdoms - check.
    Reclusive, living in a forest elfs - check.
    Wise, magically powerfull elfs living in a wonderfull city - check.
    Trolls who can regenerate - check.
    Design of orcs - check.
    Dwarfs offsprings worshiping fire demon - check.

    I mean, similiarities are off the chart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    You disliked wow from the beginning, but you played it because it was the first MMORPG where you could be casual - but then saying it was all about getting to Max (the not-so-casual-raider approach). Call me confused. Personally I walk away from things I don't like (if possible - and it is possible in case of a pc game or book or movie or music or ...). Yet here you are 15 years later. Call me confused.

    But the reason I replay again is the comparrison between Wow dev's and drugdealers. Sure Wow is build upon the "reward system" that "triggers" most people. But so is every other MMO I know of - although not nearly as bad as say Facebook. But my biggest point is this:

    I live in the capitol of my country, we got plenty of drugdealers here. But I've never touched any drug in my life (appart from weed which wasn't for me) despite of that. Why? Because I know drugs would be bad for me and no drugdealer will ever change my mind. It's my choice and my will is what I'm saying. Same goes for pc-games like WoW. If I destroyed my life and family because of a pc game (drug) it would be my bad choice alone. Self control and taking responsibility for your own choices is whats its all about while navigating a world of temptations (addictove pc-games. social media or actual drugs)
    Eh not good comparison - you can play wow for like couple hours, say it is not for you and move on with your live. Try that with any of the hard drugs. Or not. Dont do drugs :/

  9. #89
    I’m so torn.

    My first thought was “I like how the female throws both hands in the air!” My second thought was “oh no that means she no longer does the howl.”

    And the generic “troll” side cast for directional is pretty lame

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    I would argue the spec identity is better on modern WoW. Maybe classes are now less important than specs but thats because specs are what define you as a character faaaaaar more than in vanilla. You still are able to use all of them (warrior is one click away for being a dps or a tank).

    You could use actions, abilities, spells because you learned them, either from class progression sheet or buying from a class trainer (wow). Sure, there were class specific quests to obtain certain abilities (paladin/lock mounts, lock demons, etc) but overall criteria to use x ability was - buy it from trainer.

    - - - Updated - - -



    In that case i can safely say it was influenced by Warhammer and not DND.

    Savage orcs fighting human kingdoms - check.
    Reclusive, living in a forest elfs - check.
    Wise, magically powerfull elfs living in a wonderfull city - check.
    Trolls who can regenerate - check.
    Design of orcs - check.
    Dwarfs offsprings worshiping fire demon - check.

    I mean, similiarities are off the chart.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Eh not good comparison - you can play wow for like couple hours, say it is not for you and move on with your live. Try that with any of the hard drugs. Or not. Dont do drugs :/
    I fully agree.
    It was you who compared wow to an "evil drug" and the dev's to drugdealers. Thats why I responded. If you don't like a game after a couple of hours or days ... just walk away. If you can't but keep playing for 15 years it's not the games fault and it's not an evil drug

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    You disliked wow from the beginning, but you played it because it was the first MMORPG where you could be casual
    Unfortunately, blizzard did not make WoW fully casual. As their developers are hardcore nerds. They only put love into components they love. And if you see how bad world content is, you know its not that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    but then saying it was all about getting to Max (the not-so-casual-raider approach). Call me confused.
    Because it was. For most. When i started, i did not give a fuck about reaching max level for some months. Just played a few hours a day. At max level, i went into a raiding guild, ending in Naxxramas at the end of classic.

    I hated it to have to setup my schedule for a game and a group and could not define it myself. I ran through all stages of hardcore-raider-nerdism, and if i think about that nowadays, it was the stupidest thing i ever did.

    No game is worth that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    Yet here you are 15 years later. Call me confused.
    Well, today i have lost all patience for blizzard to continue on their path and their mission to create games for as many players as possible. Because if they would, WoW would have an engaging implementation and massive focus on open world content, and would adress solo players as like group players.. but surely not mythic raids or rated pvp as a focus, as like nowadays. I have also lost the patience with blizzard to implement gameplay first, also one of their missions. If you take a look on world quests, you do not really want to tell me it is compelling gameplay, or do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    But I've never touched any drug in my life
    Well, sorry, but you have. It is called World of Warcraft. And it burns deep into your brain.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Unfortunately, blizzard did not make WoW fully casual. As their developers are hardcore nerds. They only put love into components they love. And if you see how bad world content is, you know its not that.



    Because it was. For most. When i started, i did not give a fuck about reaching max level for some months. Just played a few hours a day. At max level, i went into a raiding guild, ending in Naxxramas at the end of classic.

    I hated it to have to setup my schedule for a game and a group and could not define it myself. I ran through all stages of hardcore-raider-nerdism, and if i think about that nowadays, it was the stupidest thing i ever did.

    No game is worth that.



    Well, today i have lost all patience for blizzard to continue on their path and their mission to create games for as many players as possible. Because if they would, WoW would have an engaging implementation and massive focus on open world content, and would adress solo players as like group players.. but surely not mythic raids or rated pvp as a focus, as like nowadays. I have also lost the patience with blizzard to implement gameplay first, also one of their missions. If you take a look on world quests, you do not really want to tell me it is compelling gameplay, or do you?



    Well, sorry, but you have. It is called World of Warcraft. And it burns deep into your brain.
    I agree I wished the world content would be about more than reaching max level in a matter of days and then be left with worldquests. For that reason (plus some more) I'm glad that they'll revive Classic.

    You said you were happy when you just played a few hours a day (and so was I - still am and will be again). But the moment you turned WoW into a chore with scheduels you hated it. Or in you words as far as I understand it, the moment WoW became like a drug to you.

    Don't get me wrong; I mean this in the friendliest non-patronizing way (otherwise I wouldn't respond) but it sounds to me like the real problem is more about some mechanics in yourself. Like I've said in a previous response: It's all about self dicipline and self control. If that is failing (and it can for me too of course) then the problem is still with you and something you'd have to put some work into trying to make better.

    Yes wow is, like almost any other game, build on the "reward system" that is similar to that of an addict but at least it doesn't try to hide it (like Facebook etc). Same can be said about alcohol or drugs (and lots of other things) but again; the difference lies in self dicipline and self control.

    Have a beer now and then, get shit-faced drunk on New Year, play WoW or any other game for a few hours a day, just don't let it control you but stay in control yourself (I feel like I should end this with an "Amen" lol).

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    I agree I wished the world content would be about more than reaching max level in a matter of days and then be left with worldquests. For that reason (plus some more) I'm glad that they'll revive Classic.

    You said you were happy when you just played a few hours a day (and so was I - still am and will be again). But the moment you turned WoW into a chore with scheduels you hated it. Or in you words as far as I understand it, the moment WoW became like a drug to you.

    Don't get me wrong; I mean this in the friendliest non-patronizing way (otherwise I wouldn't respond) but it sounds to me like the real problem is more about some mechanics in yourself. Like I've said in a previous response: It's all about self dicipline and self control. If that is failing (and it can for me too of course) then the problem is still with you and something you'd have to put some work into trying to make better.

    Yes wow is, like almost any other game, build on the "reward system" that is similar to that of an addict but at least it doesn't try to hide it (like Facebook etc). Same can be said about alcohol or drugs (and lots of other things) but again; the difference lies in self dicipline and self control.

    Have a beer now and then, get shit-faced drunk on New Year, play WoW or any other game for a few hours a day, just don't let it control you but stay in control yourself (I feel like I should end this with an "Amen" lol).
    Do i get you right that you try to blame me for all those classic addicts WoW had created? Do you really go full ad hominem at this point?

    Too easy, friend. Try to argument without taking me as a problem and the root of all evil, if you really seek a debate.

    Fact is, WoW was and even is addictive. Based on the gambling it offers. Based on skinner box effects all over.

    It is not my fault that all those nolifers got created during the days WoW classic was new. And i am sure history is going to repeat.

    it does not matter how strong you pretend to be, everyone can get addicted. Even the WHO sees gaming addiction as a real problem nowadays, and WoW is one of the prominent examples.

    Also, it is you who plays WoW, not me. Can you stop playing?
    Last edited by Fred Skinner; 2019-08-15 at 03:50 PM.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Do i get you right that you try to blame me for all those classic addicts WoW had created? Do you really go full ad hominem at this point?

    Too easy, friend. Try to argument without taking me as a problem and the root of all evil, if you really seek a debate.

    Fact is, WoW was and even is addictive. Based on the gambling it offers. Based on skinner box effects all over.

    It is not my fault that all those nolifers got created during the days WoW classic was new. And i am sure history is going to repeat.

    it does not matter how strong you pretend to be, everyone can get addicted. Even the WHO sees gaming addiction as a real problem nowadays, and WoW is one of the prominent examples.

    Also, it is you who plays WoW, not me. Can you stop playing?
    No I don't blame you for all the "addicts" WoW (not you) created.

    Yes I can stop playing but why would I when I still enjoy the game from time to time;
    I put my wife before WoW, I put the kids before WoW. I put work, friends, doing the dishes, cooking dinner, going for walks, reading books, watching movies and a lot of other things before WoW. Only if I got spare time left for a pc game I log in. A little bit of prioritizing(!) and self-dicipline goes a long way as I've said

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    Yes I can stop playing but why would I when I still enjoy the game from time to time;
    Yeah, i am sure you can.

    You know, many addicts do not know they are addicted. Cognitive dissonance often disallows them to see the inconvenient truth. So they believe in a lie where everything else has a higher priority, while they play every day for hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    I put my wife before WoW, I put the kids before WoW. I put work, friends, doing the dishes, cooking dinner, going for walks, reading books, watching movies and a lot of other things before WoW. Only if I got spare time left for a pc game I log in. A little bit of prioritizing(!) and self-dicipline goes a long way as I've said
    That much self discipline you have not discovered yet you are already deep in the addiction.
    Last edited by Fred Skinner; 2019-08-16 at 07:58 AM.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

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