1. #1

    About time to fix mistweaver monk (constructed suggestions)

    I created the post originally on EU battlenet forums. However unfortunately I dont have any character on US therefore I can't post it on there. If anyone could share this post on official wow US forums for me, I would really appreciate your help. Here is the link for the original post:

    h t t p s: //eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/about-time-to-fix-mistweaver-monk-constructed-suggestions/70637

    After the resto shaman buffs, mistweaver officialy became the underdog in the raids in terms of HPS potential (and was already the worst and still the worst at utility department). Meanwhile holy paladins are the best of the best just because of a single trait called "Glimmer of Light" which also requires almost no mana whatsoever.

    As a mistweaver-born healer, I can't stand this tragedy anymore. Thus, I will provide some suggestions to fix the crucial problems within the mistweaver and hoping to be heard from developers.

    Mistweaver's main problem is the lack of identity. What I mean by is that we have no role in both utility and HPS department. Solving the utility problem can be hard in the middle of a expansion, I understand that as a developer myself. However, the HPS part can be fixed. Our toolkit has so much potential for HPS, it just needs some attention to shine. Then finally we can have an identity that we deserve and crave for a long time: "Mistweaver the HPS Machine"

    Problem 1: Has the worst mastery among all other healers by far in terms of scaling and usefulness in the raid environment. Furthermore, The scaling issue causes / will cause even more problems in future raids.

    Solution: Change the mastery such that it works on vivify's cleave healing as well ( i.e the healing that goes to renewing mist targets also procs mastery).
    - Vivify procs mastery on all targets it healed. Vivify's healing can be reduced by %5-10 in order to balance things out.

    or

    - Vivify procs %50 of the mastery on other targets it healed.

    Problem 2: Inefficient mana usage of spells.
    - 2800 mana for Renewing Mist,
    - 5200 mana for Enveloping Mist
    - 7200 !! mana for Essence Font.

    Solution 1: Lowering the mana usage such as
    - Renewing mist: 2800 to 2600
    - Enveloping Mist: 5200 to 4750
    - Essence Font: 7200 to 6500

    Solution 2: Mana usage stays the same but the spell power coefficients increase accordingly.
    - Renewing Mist: %7 increase
    - Enveloping Mist: %12 increase (this spell needs to be cheaper so badly though. Thus, I prefer low mana usage all day compare to healing increase)
    - Essence Font: %5 increase

    *I strongly prefer solution 1 but both are at least viable solutions in my opinion*

    Problem 3: Worst healing CD of all, Revival. Has very low spellpower coefficient and it can even wipe the entire raid just because of its dispel mechanic. Hello High Botanis, Za'qul and others that I dont remember.

    Solution 1: (my favorite one so far) Change Revival such that it also procs %30 of your mastery on targets it healed.

    Solution 2: Remove the dispel effect and increase its healing by %10

    Solution 3: Bring back the Blessing of Yu'lon.
    Blessing of Yu'lon: Activating Revival summons the spirit of Yu'lon, healing all Revival targets for an additional %30 of Revival's heal over 6 sec.

    Problem 4: Low impact of talents.

    Solution: New talent introduction, rebalancing the numbers of some and making some current talents baseline.
    - Make Jade Serpent Statue baseline and introduce a new talent called "Dancing Mists" (the artifact trait in the legion)
    Dancing Mists: Renewing Mist has a %20 chance to immediately spread to an additional target when initially cast or when traveling to a new target.

    *It would also have a really good synergy with the new mastery I mentioned before*

    - Rising Mist: %30 increase

    - Replace Chi Wave with a new talent called "Secrets of Mist"
    Secrets of Mist: Soothing mist can chain up to 2 additional allies within 10 yards of your main target at %70 power.

    or

    - Replace Chi Wave with a new active talent called "Hidden Power of Soothing"
    Hidden Power of Soothing: Your next Soothing Mist heals for %50 more and can be channeled while moving. (45 sec cooldown, Instant, No mana cost)

    I am sure there can be variety of suggetions that can improve mistweaver. However, the suggestions I mentioned can really help the general flow of mistweaver in terms of synergy, mastery scaling and most importantly "the fun".

    Let's give Miistweaver the identity it deserves!

    Thank you for your time...
    Last edited by Qiox; 2019-08-16 at 02:11 PM. Reason: making it easier to read

  2. #2
    The only thing I agree here is to remove dispel on revival. Everything else NO. Mistweaver is DESIGNED to be the worst healer for those who want the worst to play. Deal with it.

    About time is wrong. Mistweaver is always underpowered. Stop whining here.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ruwshtyb View Post
    The only thing I agree here is to remove dispel on revival. Everything else NO. Mistweaver is DESIGNED to be the worst healer for those who want the worst to play. Deal with it.

    About time is wrong. Mistweaver is always underpowered. Stop whining here.
    Very helpful, good job.

    OP: Actually, some of your solutions and ideas have been posted and shared to the dev team before, to no avail. I get your sentiment and I agree MW needs a certain niche(*) apart from being the most mobile healer, even if that's definitely a solid strength. The main problem I see is the reliance and catch 22 of Essence Font, it heals for a lot, is a smart heal, can be used whilst moving - which makes it strong, but it's quite boring. When it is on cooldown, that's when in raid setting a problem arises that we only have Vivify to heal 3 targets, or do the single target Soothing and/or Enveloping Mist casts, where both feel very low in output vs. Essence Font. It's kinda a feast or famine feeling, where one spell is so strong, but the whatever-seconds it is on cooldown for, you're just filling spells and time until you can hit it again when it'll do good healing.

    I do still think MW mechanically is in a decent spot, and much better than it was from Legion and definitely from WoD, but it misses some core "oh that's a MW job!" role, apart from being a pretty decent sustained ST healer (which in a raid setting almost never happens).

    (* Right now, in Eternal Palance, healing balance is pretty damn awful, so one could argue that apart from Glimmerdins and Disc Priests, every other healer needs a niche thanks to the awful tuning.)

  4. #4
    Honestly i wish they would just revert it back to its mop counterpart. The spells were fun back then, they could do their entire rotation whilst moving, and a good mistweaver really shined as having infinite mana and able to have ridiculous spread healing potential. Their mastery was more fun than it is today. Yes its completely passive orbs and was always their weakest stat, but the amount of orbs you could generate actually had the raid leader saying, if you are getting low to run into the orbs. It felt useful. Emminence fistweaving / lightning weaving was certainly fun to stance swap to when needed and definitely felt better than way of the crane or the rising mist talent, and that wasnt even particularly op compared to disc priests damage / healing.
    They had their niche back then. I understand why blizzard wanted them to have cast times to their spells but theyve kinda half reverted back to instant casts but all in all their spell kit seems alot clunkier than it should be. They never had to be the strongest hps machines, their niche could have remained as super mobile healers with decent mana control and constant spread healing.
    Chi explosion could have also been a really good addition. A good healer could time to explode all their orbs right as big damage goes off much like chi burst is now and actually it was the ability i was most excited about during wod as the healing from your orbs in mop was nothing to scoff at. But they massively nerfed the amount of orbs that spawned and i think the healing too so it became obsolete.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mjolnrik View Post
    Honestly i wish they would just revert it back to its mop counterpart. The spells were fun back then, they could do their entire rotation whilst moving, and a good mistweaver really shined as having infinite mana and able to have ridiculous spread healing potential. Their mastery was more fun than it is today. Yes its completely passive orbs and was always their weakest stat, but the amount of orbs you could generate actually had the raid leader saying, if you are getting low to run into the orbs. It felt useful. Emminence fistweaving / lightning weaving was certainly fun to stance swap to when needed and definitely felt better than way of the crane or the rising mist talent, and that wasnt even particularly op compared to disc priests damage / healing.
    They had their niche back then. I understand why blizzard wanted them to have cast times to their spells but theyve kinda half reverted back to instant casts but all in all their spell kit seems alot clunkier than it should be. They never had to be the strongest hps machines, their niche could have remained as super mobile healers with decent mana control and constant spread healing.
    It is your nostalgic. Deal with it.

    "having infinite mana". Funny people have completely forgotten why blizzard removed spirit and how chi/ mana tea worked.

    "able to have ridiculous spread healing potential."

    Fistweaving is bad and purely your nostalgic. Eminence was never good. FW/LW healing was objectively bad design. Bringing back terrible nostalgic stuff like the active soothing mist or ReM-Uplift is extremely harmful.

    Chi explosion could have also been a really good addition. A good healer could time to explode all their orbs right as big damage goes off much like chi burst is now and actually it was the ability i was most excited about during wod as the healing from your orbs in mop was nothing to scoff at. But they massively nerfed the amount of orbs that spawned and i think the healing too so it became obsolete.
    Chi explosion was a WoD talent. The spell never existed in MoP. I think what you are talking about is "detonate chi" which was added in WoD as well. Detonate Chi was proven a complete failure.


    I don't think you understand how mastery before Legion worked. It is always under tuned, proven by theory-crafting and it had serious bugs which were never fixed until the spell was removed.

    They had their niche back then.
    Funny how people complained about so-called utility on the MMO-champion forum during MoP->Legion.


    You are basically false memory. These kinds of "good old days of MW" stuff are all based on false information and pure nostalgic. Stop whining and deal with it!
    Last edited by ruwshtyb; 2019-08-21 at 04:04 AM.

  6. #6
    to throw some of my own thoughts into the ring;

    Change Spells to Increase Mastery use;
    Vivify: have it apply mastery as the off target hits instead of the current hits. Altogether with other changes would dramatically increase Mastery power compared to now.
    Decouple Vivify and Renewing Mist for multi-target;
    At the moment Vivify as a multitarget spell is essentially chain heal with extra steps (I believe it's cheaper which is a plus), keeping up renewing mist is effectively a non-issue but ReM doesn't exactly always pick the best jump targets for future healing, so just letting it do the automatic targeting that chain heal does with it's jumps would be a general quality of life improvement.
    An additional idea would be to change the TFT+Viv bonus from a free Viv to hitting mastery on active ReM targets, with general changes to mana costs.
    Decouple Essence Font and Double Mastery;
    Essence Font is a strong enough spell on it's own to validate it's use, tying the double mastery buff to it just forces misuse of a high mana spell. Applying it similarly to Secret Infusions as a buff after TFT is consumed as 'all Gust of Mist applications hit twice for X sec' would add a bit more control (though it would effectively lower the total number of double gusts possible by a third as a consequence). Or possibly adding a toggleable with a stacking buff for it from applying ReM or something (though that would create an odd 'ramp-up' time to really get going)

    I'll edit in some additional points in the morning.

    EDIT:
    DPS:
    Melee abilities should get ~20% increases to damage, opportunity costs to try and add dps on the boss for Progression is so much higher then other healers.
    Revival:
    Drop the cd to 2-2.5 min, as far as raid cooldowns go revival tends to either be thrown in with others or not planned around, lowering the cd would allow it to more consistently fall around major mechanics at least.
    Last edited by Lindestria; 2019-09-13 at 10:29 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindestria View Post
    to throw some of my own thoughts into the ring;

    Change Spells to Increase Mastery use;
    Vivify: have it apply mastery as the off target hits instead of the current hits. Altogether with other changes would dramatically increase Mastery power compared to now.
    Decouple Vivify and Renewing Mist for multi-target;
    At the moment Vivify as a multitarget spell is essentially chain heal with extra steps (I believe it's cheaper which is a plus), keeping up renewing mist is effectively a non-issue but ReM doesn't exactly always pick the best jump targets for future healing, so just letting it do the automatic targeting that chain heal does with it's jumps would be a general quality of life improvement.
    An additional idea would be to change the TFT+Viv bonus from a free Viv to hitting mastery on active ReM targets, with general changes to mana costs.
    Decouple Essence Font and Double Mastery;
    Essence Font is a strong enough spell on it's own to validate it's use, tying the double mastery buff to it just forces misuse of a high mana spell. Applying it similarly to Secret Infusions as a buff after TFT is consumed as 'all Gust of Mist applications hit twice for X sec' would add a bit more control (though it would effectively lower the total number of double gusts possible by a third as a consequence). Or possibly adding a toggleable with a stacking buff for it from applying ReM or something (though that would create an odd 'ramp-up' time to really get going)

    I'll edit in some additional points in the morning.

    EDIT:
    DPS:
    Melee abilities should get ~20% increases to damage, opportunity costs to try and add dps on the boss for Progression is so much higher then other healers.
    Revival:
    Drop the cd to 2-2.5 min, as far as raid cooldowns go revival tends to either be thrown in with others or not planned around, lowering the cd would allow it to more consistently fall around major mechanics at least.
    Stop requesting stupid changes.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ruwshtyb View Post
    The only thing I agree here is to remove dispel on revival. Everything else NO. Mistweaver is DESIGNED to be the worst healer for those who want the worst to play. Deal with it.

    About time is wrong. Mistweaver is always underpowered. Stop whining here.
    what a garbage post.
    change can't wait.

  9. #9
    If you get the one good thing about revival dispelling removed i hope you're sterile and can't breed.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    If you get the one good thing about revival dispelling removed i hope you're sterile and can't breed.
    Sorry. I am speaking the truth. All these good old days changes don't work. ReM-uplift. Active SooM etc. All these proposed changes are echo chamber.

    Remove revival dispelling is something at least you could do at this point considering Blizzard constantly screws MW over this issue.

    BTW, I generally do not care about such a failure spec like MW.

  11. #11
    htrnsfdnse good old days changes don't work. ReM-uplift. Active SooM etc. All these proposed changes are echo chamber.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qiox View Post

    Problem 3: Worst healing CD of all, Revival. Has very low spellpower coefficient and it can even wipe the entire raid just because of its dispel mechanic. Hello High Botanis, Za'qul and others that I dont remember.

    Thank you for your time...
    .

    I remembered playing mistweaver on SoO back in pandaria, Using revival when everyone was taking bid raid damage, was great toping the health bars and dispelling. i think they reduced the power of revival because if they stack cds (2-3 revivals) like that it will be like an exploit.

    But yeah they should address revival in a way that keeps the current niche dispel and heal and perhaps putting EMist/renwal on everyone.
    Last edited by Alexplode; 2019-11-06 at 05:33 PM.

  13. #13
    make revival some kind of aoe Zen-style shield/damage reduction protector thing and then some upwave blast heal would be good

  14. #14
    Revert us back to ReM blanketing, Uplift and Chi gameplay, bring back mana tea. Remove the failure that is Essence Font and Upwelling along with it. There you go, fixed.

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