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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans
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    I think Blizzard must have kicked Fred Skinner's dog, kissed his girlfriend and stole his truck to have this much hate for the company.

    Blizzard doesn't hate it's customers. At the end of the day, Blizzard is a business and will make decisions based on what is good for their business, even if it ends up pissing some people off. IMO, Blizzard has done a pretty good job keeping the majority of people more or less happy.
    I'm a crazy taco.

  2. #42
    Ironically, I think Blizzard is trying too hard to please the players. They don't hate them at all. Just like parents can be too harsh, they can also be too soft. And Blizzard is too soft. They listened too much, giving in when players said they wanted one thing but really needed another. Game designers aren't put in the world to be a player's best friend, they're put there to make the game engaging.

    Blizzard is a company, and companies try to win new customers, and keep the old ones happy. Trouble is, at some point, nobody with a vision is left around, and then people just start listening to what the customers are saying. Because that's all they have to go on. Trouble with that is, we're all phenomenally bad at stepping back and looking objectively at ourselves. Others are better at it. But Blizzard seems to have ceased doing that.

  3. #43
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    That was not meant as criticism towards capitalism, but as criticism towards a single example, Blizzard Entertainment. Other companies actually invest into new developments, blizzard does not do that anymore. They just follow existing hypes.

    They handle WoW as a cash cow, and do only invest as much as they think is needed. While losing millions of customer short of the start of any new expac, because their content is not as replayable as they think it is.
    Hmmm...honestly..you don't know if they invest and what they work on...and...on the other hand you are a bit contradicting in how they lose millions and also make millions.

    It just boils down to this...their quarterly reports are kinda staying on the same level and beyond that, none of us has a clue what is going on at their HQ

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tacoloco View Post
    I think Blizzard must have kicked Fred Skinner's dog, kissed his girlfriend and stole his truck to have this much hate for the company.

    Blizzard doesn't hate it's customers. At the end of the day, Blizzard is a business and will make decisions based on what is good for their business, even if it ends up pissing some people off. IMO, Blizzard has done a pretty good job keeping the majority of people more or less happy.
    Pssst...don't apply common sense here (somebody will scream how they don't please pppl, because in WotLK they had 12 million subs and likely now not anymore...but even during WotLK ppl screamed how WoW was dead because of Blizzard's decisions)

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    It just boils down to this...their quarterly reports are kinda staying on the same level and beyond that, none of us has a clue what is going on at their HQ
    Yeah, because they replaced a large subscriber base with microtransactions.

    Actually WoW is one of a very few MMORPGs where the developer is that greedy he wants both subsciptions and microtransactions. It is the defacto most expensive MMORPG currently. And the content they offer is not really well done, outside of premade group play.

    The most people who play their game play dull world quests. And some few get the fun content, in mythic dungeons or premade group raid content. Everything else is skinner box satisfaction.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  5. #45
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Even if Ion often comes out like a real smug !@#&£#* in many of his live appearances, talking about "hate" is quite a stretch, if not frankly unwarranted. It's just that they're in an odd predicament with WoW: it's an old game that's paying the bills at Blizz despite its age because all their other games are stale af or dead.

    So they they are basically sailing uncharted territory ATM, having to compete with all those MOBAs and Battle Royale's because Blizzard - as usual in the last 10 years or so - was late, way late to the party. And frankly it seems that they simply don't know who are they designing the game for, so they add something for hyper-casuals, cater to the elite crowd with excellent raids and (less so) dungeons, add collectibles everywhere... While none of these things are bad in themselves, the ensemble is... Quite close to a Frankenstein.
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  6. #46
    Many devs have come to feel entitled. Blizz devs are just as good an example as the Apex legends devs. We are just oranges to squeeze and if we fight back we are "toxic".

    Anyways, yeah, the devs have taken the playerbase for granted for a long time. They thought they were the best game and sit back as they recycled the same things hoping for the fools to keep drooling at their feet. Well, the world moved on, theres mmo's out there that are better than WoW and players left in droves.
    They are hoping to bring them back with classic. We shall see. I for one am not. I have taken a break from the live game until the next expansion where hopefully they finally decide to up their game rather than continuing to recycle the same tired ideas.

  7. #47
    Scarab Lord scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Cathedral of Eternal Night? Seat of the Triumvirate? you conveniently forget them?

    - - - Updated - - -



    wrong forum bro. this forum is for classic, you want general discussion
    Both of those were god awful dungeons. One of them re-used outdoor assets. You never actually get to see what the "Seat" of the triumpvirate looks like.
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Blizzard, not only hates the players, but sees them as hopeless addicts. Proof is time gating and awards locked behind mindless rep grinds, like flying.

    Back in WoD, a vocal minority complained about lack of content. This content drought they were talking about had nothing to do with quests, or storyline or lore, but mostly to do with there not having a next tier raid and pvp progression that did not go on for several months without anything in sight to look forward to. They also took a huge risk with a completely new system, garrison and missions, which the players were not used to and did not expect to turn out the way it did.

    BfA would be tolerable if they would:

    1. Change flying requirement from revered to honored, this means the players would have cleared, at least three times, the new zones.
    2. Make the heart of azeroth progression account wide so that people could have a chance at playing an alt or changing mains without totally burning out
    3. Once everyone has flying, they could at least start to have fun with unlocking the allied races that should have been given to them anyway, but this grind is not as bad as the above two.
    4. If they want BfA to really feel like a war between the factions, warfronts should have been a player versus player versus environment, which would have made it a lot more interesting than its current mindless state.
    5. Make islands a decent source of XP, besides making the heart of azeroth progress account wide, would make this a fun time sink for players with lots of alts, as opposed to a mindless time sink like in 1 and 2 above.

    All the players are asking for is to have fun while wasting their time, not to feel like shit.
    Ok lets address the hyperbolic comment first that blizzard hates the players, i just don't think they themselves understand what we want or what they should do, its quite clear they are midguided trying to funnel us towards the fun rather than making systems where it happens on its own.

    I do agree all ap systems going forward should be account wide even if that requires restrictions for farming high yield returns but the only set back to leveling an alt and raiding along side a main should be gearing process and the leveling process, not extras ontop of that.

    I also believe flying should be done sooner, first major content patch and they should design the addon areas with flying IN-MIND rather than avoiding it.

    The requirements for flying are pretty fair, i wouldn't change them part 1 should be finished before part two even comes out which takes about a week and abit depending on how much you want it.

    Yes warfronts should've been pvp but their servers are crap that's the problem, and it'd need to be a massive "battleground" i think it'd work better if they scaled it down with more troop choices and commands players could give/build troops themselves rather than mine and having only a few players going into the fray with the npcs (like hero units)
    Make sure if you still play your voice is heard if it matters to you, Mine wasn't.
    https://simplearmory.com/#/us/aman't...ectable/mounts
    BFA is another failure on Blizzard for leaving out information yet again despite promising communication with players while Azerite armor is an unfun system forced onto us to keep us grinding.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Actually WoW is one of a very few MMORPGs where the developer is that greedy he wants both subsciptions and microtransactions. It is the defacto most expensive MMORPG currently.
    FFXIV's shop is like 3-5 times bigger than WoW's in half the time, so you are wrong on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    FFXIV's shop is like 3-5 times bigger than WoW's in half the time, so you are wrong on that one.
    Really? Because it makes people like heelsvsbabyface literally biggest hipocrites in MMO community.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacoloco View Post
    I think Blizzard must have kicked Fred Skinner's dog, kissed his girlfriend and stole his truck to have this much hate for the company.

    Blizzard doesn't hate it's customers. At the end of the day, Blizzard is a business and will make decisions based on what is good for their business, even if it ends up pissing some people off. IMO, Blizzard has done a pretty good job keeping the majority of people more or less happy.
    It's just a troll, I saw him posting on different nick and avatar few months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even some alt account.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    FFXIV's shop is like 3-5 times bigger than WoW's in half the time, so you are wrong on that one.
    Which does not change anything about my statement.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Really? Because it makes people like heelsvsbabyface literally biggest hipocrites in MMO community.
    It's not the first case Az proved himself to be dishonest, so I'm not surprised. You can do a comparison yourself if you want.
    https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/inde...tion_Sold_Item
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/In-Game_Store
    It doesn't list additional bank space for $1/month and mobile app with separate subscription that has less functionality that Blizzard's Armory had.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Which does not change anything about my statement.
    Except the part where you claimed that WoW is the most expensive MMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  13. #53
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Well, first, hate seems like the wrong word. I think it would be more correctly called disdain...which was clearly demonstrated at the last Blizzcon (“Do you guys not have phones?”).

    Too many people think Blizz is the same reputable company that developed the Warcraft series, Diablo I & II, Starcraft, and even WoW initially. This is not the same company. They have grown by leaps and bounds, and they have become just another corporation.

    As just another corporation, customers are not people to be respected, but rather wallets to be drained as efficiently as possible. I know some want to blame Activision for all of this, but the sad reality is that Blizz was most likely going to get here regardless.

    This is why everything is done cheaper. There is a clear correlation between subscribers and the money Blizz invests. Blizz invested a lot in WoW, as well as with BC and Wrath. They invested a bit less in Cata, and their investment has been (largely) steadily declining ever since. In typical corporate leadership fashion, rather than blaming their conscious decision to invest less, they blame middle management and workers, the age of the game, and even players...anyone but themselves and their decision to spend less.

    WoD was a shock even to them. It prompted an increase in spending on Legion (still not nearly as much as they spent on BC or Wrath), but you can still see the cheap ideas in action...pruning abilities continued, the artifact weapon had a cute mini-game associated with it but was largely just passive bonuses to distract the players from the lack of having to develop interesting weapons (instead they could develop a handful of dirt-cheap skins and colors for each weapon), and Demon Hunters were reduced to just 2 specs; and they even included the much maligned garrison mission table so that they didn't have to develop something truly new and interesting.

    Legion did well enough that the executives at Blizz decided it was okay to go back down to WoD levels of investment (perhaps even less). Rather than a new race or two, we have reskins of existing races...again, dirt cheap to produce. For the first time ever, they did almost nothing to the classes at all...pretty much preserving them as they were in Legion. They honestly figured that they could keep this grift going for an entire expansion and hold onto enough subscriptions to look really profitable...instead, the bulk of their profitability has to do with firing a lot of their people; something that is not sustainable in the long run, hence why their stock is not bouncing back.

    Give up on BfA...Blizz is not going to spend anything more on it (it is the new WoD). Maybe, just maybe, they will spend Legion level of effort (again still much less than they did in BC or Wrath), but we'll have to see. In the meantime, if you are okay with the game being more thoughtful and less pew-pew-pew, then enjoy Classic for now.

  14. #54
    Blizzard KNOWS people hate timegating but thats how they get their subs back. Someone subs to know the rest of the story and buys 1 month of sub for 1 day of gameplay.

    There are also fewer and fewer raids since WotlK, it used to have let me see:
    -Nax
    -vault of archavon
    -eye of eternity
    -ruby sanctum
    -obsidium sanctum
    -ulduar
    -onyxia again
    -trial of the champion
    -ice crown citadel

    So thats 9 freaking raids.

    Now in legion they had:
    -nightmare
    -trial of valor
    -nighthold
    -tomb of sargeras
    -argus raid, forgot the name

    So 5 raids, its the same with dungouns. Blizzars KNOWS that people stay subbed even though they are giving less stuff to do that honestly interesting. No1 wants to grind the necklace because its useless, its different than in classic where you could get imba gear if you grinded.

    Now lets compare it with ff14, ff14 doesn't have trash mobs in raids so wiping doesnt matter. Songs during raids are epic and the fight aswell. There are so many raids and dungouns coming at every patch. The mainquest continues and stops only when its logical to stop, so basically they will finish every continuation of the main quests. Every thing else is alot less boring when grinding for something. All of this is because they know that if they screw up, the players will get angry whereas Blizzard KNOWS people will get angry and will STILL pay for the subs.

    So yeah....

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Well, first, hate seems like the wrong word. I think it would be more correctly called disdain...which was clearly demonstrated at the last Blizzcon (“Do you guys not have phones?”).

    Too many people think Blizz is the same reputable company that developed the Warcraft series, Diablo I & II, Starcraft, and even WoW initially. This is not the same company. They have grown by leaps and bounds, and they have become just another corporation.

    As just another corporation, customers are not people to be respected, but rather wallets to be drained as efficiently as possible. I know some want to blame Activision for all of this, but the sad reality is that Blizz was most likely going to get here regardless.

    This is why everything is done cheaper. There is a clear correlation between subscribers and the money Blizz invests. Blizz invested a lot in WoW, as well as with BC and Wrath. They invested a bit less in Cata, and their investment has been (largely) steadily declining ever since. In typical corporate leadership fashion, rather than blaming their conscious decision to invest less, they blame middle management and workers, the age of the game, and even players...anyone but themselves and their decision to spend less.

    WoD was a shock even to them. It prompted an increase in spending on Legion (still not nearly as much as they spent on BC or Wrath), but you can still see the cheap ideas in action...pruning abilities continued, the artifact weapon had a cute mini-game associated with it but was largely just passive bonuses to distract the players from the lack of having to develop interesting weapons (instead they could develop a handful of dirt-cheap skins and colors for each weapon), and Demon Hunters were reduced to just 2 specs; and they even included the much maligned garrison mission table so that they didn't have to develop something truly new and interesting.

    Legion did well enough that the executives at Blizz decided it was okay to go back down to WoD levels of investment (perhaps even less). Rather than a new race or two, we have reskins of existing races...again, dirt cheap to produce. For the first time ever, they did almost nothing to the classes at all...pretty much preserving them as they were in Legion. They honestly figured that they could keep this grift going for an entire expansion and hold onto enough subscriptions to look really profitable...instead, the bulk of their profitability has to do with firing a lot of their people; something that is not sustainable in the long run, hence why their stock is not bouncing back.

    Give up on BfA...Blizz is not going to spend anything more on it (it is the new WoD). Maybe, just maybe, they will spend Legion level of effort (again still much less than they did in BC or Wrath), but we'll have to see. In the meantime, if you are okay with the game being more thoughtful and less pew-pew-pew, then enjoy Classic for now.
    Unless you know how much they spent on anything, your opinion is garbage.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    Blizzard KNOWS people hate timegating but thats how they get their subs back. Someone subs to know the rest of the story and buys 1 month of sub for 1 day of gameplay.

    There are also fewer and fewer raids since WotlK, it used to have let me see:
    -Nax
    -vault of archavon
    -eye of eternity
    -ruby sanctum
    -obsidium sanctum
    -ulduar
    -onyxia again
    -trial of the champion
    -ice crown citadel

    So thats 9 freaking raids.

    Now in legion they had:
    -nightmare
    -trial of valor
    -nighthold
    -tomb of sargeras
    -argus raid, forgot the name

    So 5 raids, its the same with dungouns. Blizzars KNOWS that people stay subbed even though they are giving less stuff to do that honestly interesting. No1 wants to grind the necklace because its useless, its different than in classic where you could get imba gear if you grinded.

    Now lets compare it with ff14, ff14 doesn't have trash mobs in raids so wiping doesnt matter. Songs during raids are epic and the fight aswell. There are so many raids and dungouns coming at every patch. The mainquest continues and stops only when its logical to stop, so basically they will finish every continuation of the main quests. Every thing else is alot less boring when grinding for something. All of this is because they know that if they screw up, the players will get angry whereas Blizzard KNOWS people will get angry and will STILL pay for the subs.

    So yeah....
    Going by that logic, FFXIV has two raids per expansion, one is LFR only.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Going by that logic, FFXIV has two raids per expansion, one is LFR only.
    Wait what, I'm pretty sure there are multiple.
    Oooh thats what you meant, i concur if its about the savage difficulties and the LFR one.

    The savage one is divided in parts i get that but killing those bosses is quite hard especially the third and fourth which most people cant even touch.

    The LFR one well i would still say that one is heroic equivelent of WoW raids so you can still say its a real raid, because i see wow LFR not as a raid.

    There are also the trials, so three raids every patch. Still more than blizzard right?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Except the part where you claimed that WoW is the most expensive MMO.
    Blizzard sells gold in their shop. Square doesnt do that in theirs. Thats much more likely to create microtransactions than anything else.

    Ergo, WoWs shop is way more penetrated than Square Enix Shop.

    Also, Blizzard makes way more money with microtransactions than Square. Which is a causality.

    Blizzard is the most greedy MMORPG creator.

    You know, while players condem pay to win in every other game, players seem to ignore it in blizzards flagship.

    And yes, it is pay to win if you buy gold to hire a raiding guild to get you mythic gear.
    Last edited by Fred Skinner; 2019-08-25 at 01:08 PM.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    Wait what, I'm pretty sure there are multiple.
    Oooh thats what you meant, i concur if its about the savage difficulties and the LFR one.

    The savage one is divided in parts i get that but killing those bosses is quite hard especially the third and fourth which most people cant even touch.

    The LFR one well i would still say that one is heroic equivelent of WoW raids so you can still say its a real raid, because i see wow LFR not as a raid.

    There are also the trials, so three raids every patch. Still more than blizzard right?
    No, I said two per expansion: one normal in three wings and one Alliance in three wings. Shadowbringers for example has Eden and YoRHa. Already less than Uldir, Battle of Dazar'alor, Crucible of Storms and The Eternal Palace.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Thats much more likely to create microtransactions than anything else.
    No, it isn't. Now that we are even in our arguments, maybe you can bring something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    Also, Blizzard makes way more money with microtransactions than Square. Which is a causality.
    Do you have the data that supports that?
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    Blizzard KNOWS people hate timegating but thats how they get their subs back. Someone subs to know the rest of the story and buys 1 month of sub for 1 day of gameplay.

    There are also fewer and fewer raids since WotlK, it used to have let me see:
    -Nax
    -vault of archavon
    -eye of eternity
    -ruby sanctum
    -obsidium sanctum
    -ulduar
    -onyxia again
    -trial of the champion
    -ice crown citadel

    So thats 9 freaking raids.

    Now in legion they had:
    -nightmare
    -trial of valor
    -nighthold
    -tomb of sargeras
    -argus raid, forgot the name

    So 5 raids, its the same with dungouns. Blizzars KNOWS that people stay subbed even though they are giving less stuff to do that honestly interesting. No1 wants to grind the necklace because its useless, its different than in classic where you could get imba gear if you grinded.

    Now lets compare it with ff14, ff14 doesn't have trash mobs in raids so wiping doesnt matter. Songs during raids are epic and the fight aswell. There are so many raids and dungouns coming at every patch. The mainquest continues and stops only when its logical to stop, so basically they will finish every continuation of the main quests. Every thing else is alot less boring when grinding for something. All of this is because they know that if they screw up, the players will get angry whereas Blizzard KNOWS people will get angry and will STILL pay for the subs.

    So yeah....
    I played in and loved Wrath, but you just named 5 1 boss raids and one of them was a rehash of a vanilla raid whereas all five Legion raids were very original and had some amazing fights. Like, come on.

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