Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    While i agree with the sentiment that blizzard think of the players as hopeless addicts (pretty much every system is designed to reward the casual player and hinder or downright stop the players that wants to play more) i feel like none of the proposed changes op has put forward will in any way change that.
    you're right, i said it would make it tolerable, not likeable...

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Talrath View Post
    World bosses cant be raidbosses because they dont require a functioning brain. The obsidium sanctum, ruby sanctum and eye of eternity requirement was having a functioning reqiorement.

    Just look at the raids of wrath, I liked them alot bettter than legion. The only i liked in legion was the burning throne raid, the rest was a meh.

    Maybe i should tell you my requirements when i deem a boss a raidboss.
    1: ofcourse a different instance and not just walking around in the world. So that you actually find a new environment different of the outside.
    2: need tacs and an enrage timer.
    3: needs to be fun.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Are the rotation fixed, havent been playing for 7 month's. And more precisely the rotation of ferals and are they good in mythics.
    Sorry bud, but just because you think a boss doesn't fit *your* arbitrary criteria, doesn't actually mean it's not a raid boss.

    Simple fact is, if it required a raid group while it was current content, then it was a raid boss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    They don't hate the playerbase, but they do think we're on average very stupid.
    And on average, they aren't wrong.

  3. #83
    Ah yes, Blizzard hates us. So much. Every company hates their customers and would be better off if they`d shove off.

    I am clueless what you want the game to do to be more to your liking. Basically you want them to remove the grind, which is a big part of every MMO that ever existed and the reason why people log in every day, reduce Reputation needed for things like flying, remove WQs. So if I understood correctly what you are saying is that you want the game to reward you for not playing the game. Uh huh. Sounds logical.

    And pray tell what do you want to do between patches then? Or do you expect them to drop a new dungeon every two weeks to keep you engaged in the game?

    The format we are working with is constant change of seasons between content drops and filler stuff to keep people engaged and yes, to make them pay their subs, because - surprise - Blizzard needs to make money to pay for the content development.

    The alternative would be to have nothing to do between major patches, because there will always be downtime needed to develop new stuff. Blizzard is already keeping that time very short compared to other companies. Check how long SWTOR has gone without any Raid that has more then 2 bosses, or even a dungeon. Blizzard is adding more content in a simple patch then other companies add in a full expansion cycle. Give them a break.

  4. #84
    thank you for your feedback.

  5. #85
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    pretty much every system is designed to reward the casual player and hinder or downright stop the players that wants to play more
    I think I have an idea of what you're on about, but this comes across more as a whine for whining's sake than a well thought out or genuine criticism.

    Yes, the game is designed to reward casual players. But it does still reward the more serious player even more. The fact that it demands exponentially more effort the higher you get in the game doesn't really mean that it is designed to hinder or stop more serious players though.

    The game is very clearly designed to not limit the amount of extra effort someone can put into the game and get better rewards for it. That's the way diminishing return rewards are designed to work.

    Take the AP system for example: Because each successive AP level costs exponentially more than the previous level, someone who is putting in double the effort towards accumulating AP is basically gaining 2 levels. Because of the way Artifact Knowledge works, that player needs to keep on putting in double the effort to stay 2 levels ahead.

    At no point (during progression) is the more casual player who puts in 1/2 of the effort ever going to be on par with the more serious player. Yes, the player putting in half the effort will end up getting to the same power level for half the effort, but that should never be confused with getting the same reward for half the effort. The reason isn't complicated: Getting the power sooner has significant value.

    Simply put: Getting the "same" reward but later doesn't mean you're getting the same reward at all.

  6. #86
    Completely agree, time-gating has gone too far (already did back in MOP tbf). It's obvious the thought behind is to increase/keep ppl subbed, but in my case it just makes me bored enough to unsub, which is why i havent touched bfa since nov. last year.

  7. #87
    Holy crap, an MMORPG requiring grinding to unlock content. Those evil bastards! Things weren't this way in Vanilla, that's for sure! How dare they want content to last more than the first week of it being released?

    Honestly I have more fun without flying than with it, as the world is actually interesting to navigate and explore. I only get it because I feel obligated and know the huge disadvantage I'd have in the wpvp/race to resource nodes.

    Kind of on board with the HoA being account wide though, at least the essence items.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I think I have an idea of what you're on about, but this comes across more as a whine for whining's sake than a well thought out or genuine criticism.

    Yes, the game is designed to reward casual players. But it does still reward the more serious player even more. The fact that it demands exponentially more effort the higher you get in the game doesn't really mean that it is designed to hinder or stop more serious players though.

    The game is very clearly designed to not limit the amount of extra effort someone can put into the game and get better rewards for it. That's the way diminishing return rewards are designed to work.

    Take the AP system for example: Because each successive AP level costs exponentially more than the previous level, someone who is putting in double the effort towards accumulating AP is basically gaining 2 levels. Because of the way Artifact Knowledge works, that player needs to keep on putting in double the effort to stay 2 levels ahead.

    At no point (during progression) is the more casual player who puts in 1/2 of the effort ever going to be on par with the more serious player. Yes, the player putting in half the effort will end up getting to the same power level for half the effort, but that should never be confused with getting the same reward for half the effort. The reason isn't complicated: Getting the power sooner has significant value.

    Simply put: Getting the "same" reward but later doesn't mean you're getting the same reward at all.
    If only the player that play 2x as much actually got 2x the ap.. Doing 6 mythic islands compared to only three a week doesnt even make up for a 30% increase due to how insane the weekly reward is.
    But 30% increase is still way to steep an exponential curve. It actively discourages players from ap farming until their goal is "realisticly reachable", and i think that is a really bad design. I hate just waiting around for the goal to come to me like some kind of damn handout, i wanna work towards it.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  9. #89
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Land of the mighty moose, polar bears and fika.
    Posts
    6,153
    How can you make any sort of character progression feel meaningful if it more or less resets the next content patch? A content update is essentially it's own self-contained game within the expansion. How long does it take a brand new lvl 120 to get to Nazjatar and set foot in the latest raid?

    You're not building towards anything, you are instantly thrown in the latest content no matter how little effort you put in.

    There's no satisfying rewards in BFA, because everything is either a cosmetic reward many hours away, or content you'll plow through in one afternoon. There is no inbetween.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2019-08-26 at 07:03 PM.
    Stop designing WoW like every content patch is it's own little expansion.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    If only the player that play 2x as much actually got 2x the ap.. Doing 6 mythic islands compared to only three a week doesnt even make up for a 30% increase due to how insane the weekly reward is.
    But 30% increase is still way to steep an exponential curve. It actively discourages players from ap farming until their goal is "realisticly reachable", and i think that is a really bad design. I hate just waiting around for the goal to come to me like some kind of damn handout, i wanna work towards it.
    No, that's good design. Not making it worthwhile to do burnout farming is the point. You can still work towards your goal, it just isn't the best path to do it mindlessly grinding.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Holy crap, an MMORPG requiring grinding to unlock content. Those evil bastards! Things weren't this way in Vanilla, that's for sure! How dare they want content to last more than the first week of it being released?

    Honestly I have more fun without flying than with it, as the world is actually interesting to navigate and explore. I only get it because I feel obligated and know the huge disadvantage I'd have in the wpvp/race to resource nodes.

    Kind of on board with the HoA being account wide though, at least the essence items.
    If they wanted content to last, they'd simply make it difficult and then remove the false barriers and caps.

    Gating is not grinding.

  12. #92
    I'm still shook that people think 80% of the population play horde.

    I mean 80% of the people that do max level relevant content are horde, but there is an equal horde/alliance split. Always had, always will.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Well, in Blizzard defense, you don't give them much to like as a community.
    I hate this dismissive response so damned much.

    Blizzard is openly responsible for the state of the community. Why?

    • They ask for feedback and ignore it.
    • They say that there isnt constructive feedback when time and time again there are very well made and constructed threads compiling information for the sheer sake of making it easy for blizzard and they ignore it.
    • They have on many many occasions outright said players need to like something or just plain called them wrong. For example BrM monk in... I think it was Legion? When Ion came out and stated that just plain everyone, raider and casual alike, just weren't doing it right. He was wrong of course and the backlash was so hard that they had to fix the class. But this shouldn't have happened in the first damned place.
    • They have apologized after the fact for ignoring feedback: they did this with fury warrior a few years ago stating they had ignored all feedback regarding fury warrior and sure enough the class was shite. They promised they wouldn't do it again. And then proceeded to do it again with another warrior spec one expansion later.
    • Remember when they said they needed more feedback going into BfA in a stream, and then deleted the feedback forum later that day?
    • They keep repeating the same stupid mistakes each expansion and then apologize for the bad design later on. But when the flaws in design are noted and discussed from day 1, you don't get sit back and act like it was some big surprise.
    • They've been caught in numerous lies

    Blizz isnt shit to players because the community is shit to them.

    The community is shit to them because they are shit to players.

    So many of the good willed and dedicated players have given up on being civil with blizzard due to years and years of abuse. So no shit things are as they are.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  14. #94
    Bloodsail Admiral Isilrien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The North
    Posts
    1,178
    They don't hate you. They just want your money, and so the longer that they can string you along, the more money they can potentially get from you.

  15. #95
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    If only the player that play 2x as much actually got 2x the ap.. Doing 6 mythic islands compared to only three a week doesnt even make up for a 30% increase due to how insane the weekly reward is.
    All of which is a good thing actually. Like I said, it's designed to give diminishing returns. You still get more power, but the further ahead of the pack you get, the harder it becomes to get even further ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    But 30% increase is still way to steep an exponential curve. It actively discourages players from ap farming until their goal is "realisticly reachable", and i think that is a really bad design.
    The intent is simple: You decide how much effort you're prepared to put in and you're rewarded accordingly. That is a massively superior design to the one where players pursue set outcomes regardless of how that fits in with your time budget.

    Systems like having BiS, having fixed daily or weekly caps were terrible systems for most players, because there was a static requirement that everyone was expected to meet. You cannot expect a "one size fits all" approach to work in a game like WoW with the massively diverse playerbase that it has. Sure, it will work fantastically for the small fraction of the playerbase whose schedule it happens to align with, but for most players, such systems are either pushing you commit more time to the game than you can afford, or you're finishing everything with an excess of time to spare and then you're left bored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    I hate just waiting around for the goal to come to me like some kind of damn handout, i wanna work towards it.
    No offense, but that's basically BS.

    Of course you get to work towards your goals. Do you honestly believe that things like AotC or Cutting Edge will just "come to you like some kind of damn handout"? They won't. You have to actively work towards them if you want to get them.

    As I already said, you're ignoring the fact that the value of rewards are closely tied to how quickly you can get them. I mean, sure, you could just arb around and wait for AK to make it trivial to hit your next Heart of Azeroth level. You could wait for the next tier so that you can go and clear the previous raid on mythic. But if those are your goals, that has nothing to do with the game or it's systems and you have only yourself to blame for any feelings you may have of the game feeling like a handout.

    If, on the other hand, you want to be a cutting edge raider, the game demands that you work for it. You're going to have to put in a lot more effort to get your Heart of Azeroth 5 levels ahead of the casual crowd. And you're going to have to keep up that effort to stay ahead. In return though, you're going to have the means to tackle the content, and reap the rewards that are only available to an exclusive group of the most committed players in the game.

  16. #96
    Grand Marshal Hottage Hottage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Hague, NL
    Posts
    3,817
    1. I'm a turbo casual scrub who barely plays 4 hours a week anymore and still unlocked Flying almost four weeks ago.
    Yes, Nazjatar is an absolute dumpster fire to navigate without flying, but if you're unwilling to put even the minimum of effort into earning stuff in game, what's even the point of playing?
    2. With Artifact Knowledge as high as it is, grinding a fresh level 120's neck up to something vaguely decent isn't that difficult at all, by the time you're 120 you should already be close to level 15 or so, and just grinding dungeons will bring you up to the mid thirties before you're geared enough to do anywhere that the neck even matters.
    3. See #1.
    4. Warfronts being PvE encounters is definitely a puzzling choice, there should at the very least be a PvP option (like Island Expeditions).
    5. What you consider fun others might not, personally the idea of grinding IE's over and over for 10 levels gives me flashbacks to grinding Warsong Gulch for Grand Marshal.
    Battle for Azeroth: Grand Marshal Hottage | Classic: Hottage | Overwatch | Diablo III
    PC Specs: Intel i5 8600K @ 4.5Ghz | Corsair H60 | 16GB DDR4 @ 3.2Ghz | ZOTAC GeForce RTX 2080 Twin Fan | Gigabyte Z370N
    WD Black NVMe 1TB | Toshiba P300 3TB | NZXT H200 Black/Red | Corsair SF750 | Windows 10 Pro 64bit
    Nvidia SHIELD 32GB LTE | Razer Naga Hex Wraith Red | Razer Blackwidow X Chroma | ViewSonic XG2730

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Blizz isnt shit to players because the community is shit to them.

    The community is shit to them because they are shit to players.
    Not entirely true. The people who write on forums tend do be a different breed - most argue for the sake of arguing, dismiss ideas because there are workarounds, look for flaws in the post to criticize, offer replies just to feel superior and so on. This isn't necessarily WoW-related, you can pick any game, no, any forum you want (outside of specialty ones, like IT forums) and you'll see people do this.

    Sure, Blizz could do better, but so could the forum posters.

  18. #98
    This is the right blog for anybody who wishes to find out about this topic. You realize so much its almost hard to argue with you (not that I actually would want to…HaHa). You certainly put a brand new spin on a topic that's been discussed for decades. Excellent stuff, just excellent!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, that's good design. Not making it worthwhile to do burnout farming is the point. You can still work towards your goal, it just isn't the best path to do it mindlessly grinding.
    The best path being to log in for 1hour a day then log off and play another game... Waiting for the goal to come to you... Honestly without a grind the goal doesnt feel satisying at all.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  20. #100
    this text ofc. does not make you vocal minority. Not at all! Everyone thinks like that. I do understand forums are for discussions, but you are not asking questions, you just created a shitty post with shitty title of "i wANt wOW mY WAy!!!!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •