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  1. #341
    Stood in the Fire
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    Class design is some of the worst the genre has ever seen. It is incomprehensible how bad the actual core gameplay has become for a game that adds so little.

    Plot had its hopes and a few good early moments but they spirited away within an hour of the expansion starting and whenever the core story and context actually bothered to surface it just shit itself any time after.

    Dungeons and raids are sub-average, worse than anything else bar maybe Cataclysm and the systems driving them make it highly unappealing and unsustainable.

    Nothing other to say than it's a bad game, not bad for WoW, but full-on bad. Blizzard has completely lost their touch. I'm sure some people love packing shit into their gullets and thus love this but that is their prerogative.

    Everyone who mattered is gone now and it's a newer developer crew working on someone elses product, while they're endlessly berated. It has as much chance of getting good again as The Simpsons does. Probably less as at least that show has money, meanwhile Activision is probably pushing budgets down to the dime these days.
    Last edited by BlueRemedy; 2019-08-20 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #342
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Are we allowed to call posts like the OP "blog stuff", or does that only work for negative OPs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    Not even trollling, can you explain why?

    Literally it's difficult for me to think of anything I enjoyed less than island expeditions other than something like being hit over the head repeatedly with a shovel, so I'm genuinely intrigued as to what boxes they're ticking for you that you'd voluntarily do them outside of the weekly quest.
    I like islands because for me they capture the things I actually like about WoW combat in the open world and magnifies them, specifically pulling large groups of mobs and being able to use my skills to survive. I like trying to figure out the best way to go to beat the timer. And I love love love the fact that they take a minute or two at most to pop, unlike dungeons. They remind me a lot of the MoP scenarios, though more engaging and less frustrating.

    Now, the way YOU feel about Islands is the exact way I feel about Warfronts. And you know what's funny? Several members of my guild LOVE warfronts. Meanwhile, I actually like most of BFA. I don't think classes suck (and I play a lot of different classes), I've loved all the zones (except certain vertical parts of Nazjatar pre-flying), and the raids have been mostly excellent except for that awful awful awful Crucible of Storms fiasco.

    That's the beauty of opinions... we can all have them, and most of the time, we can have different ones and agree to disagree. But at no time are our opinions about these things actual facts, and that's what some people are missing here.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    This is simple maths. We will use Fire Mage as an example here. Now follow along with me slowly here. Just so you don't spew more bullshit onto your keyboard.

    If in Legion I had access to both Flame On(talent) and Phoenix Flames(because it was granted for free by the Artifact). Then if they shove Phoenix Flames into the same talent row as Flame on in BfA.

    What does that give us? Is it a net loss? Are you following yet buddy?

    It's very simple isn't it.

    A minor difference, sure. But you also gained other traits and actually more of them. So yes, the math is simple but somehow you managed to get it wrong anyway.
    I didn't say there were no changes but overall, it's very similar and more or less the same expansion, with a few improvements to the horrible RNG Legion had.
    Heck, the legendary system alone was enough to ruin Legion for me.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Because:

    - Island expeditions are terrible
    - Warfronts are terrible
    - The story is godawful
    - The Azerite armor system is bland and not compelling
    - Zone design was lackluster for most zones
    - Specs were gutted and play terribly
    - Gated grinds are the new normal
    - There just isn't anything exciting happening in game
    I agree with the bulk of this. I'd also add how terrible 2 of the 3 seasons of m+ has been. Ghuunies were terrible and also didn't work for the first little bit making the whole thing awful, reaping was fun and I don't think I've heard anyone complain about it, and now these emissaries that are just super annoying.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    It’s absolutely not the same. There is zero character progression from 110-119 and on 120 the only thing you get is essences. You get three Azerite items but that’s not character progression, that’s tied to gear.

    I complained about this in another thread today, Blizzard could basically remove BfAs leveling phase because it has no point to it. You get nothing by leveling (except weaker).

    And after Legion you not only lost the artifact skill, you lost almost all passive artifact traits, you lost legendary effects and you lost set bonuses. You lost way more than you gained.
    Ok but the artifact and the neck + armors in BfA are the same system only different pices of gear.
    Sets are also always made pointless at the start of a new expansion so there is no real difference there.

    The leveling has always been rather pointless. Heck, it was not even fun back in vanilla and the game didn't really start until max level but that just how WoW works and should not come as a surprise to anyone after 15 years.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Oh okay. We're going to play that game?

    15ish Artifact Traits.
    1 Artifact Ability.
    2 Legendary talents.
    2 Set bonuses.

    vs

    3 shitty passive procs (6 if you count the double rings from 8.1)


    I mean. It's not that hard to compare is it? The Azerite "traits" are also all hilariously shit passive procs. "+84 mastery for 12 seconds"


    I can't believe people are still making this argument.
    3 passive procs because class should feel complete without supplementing it with some dumb items that will go away as soon as expansion ends like:
    "legendary" items, tons of artifact passive traits, one useless artifact ability, and 2 passive tier set band-aid bonuses

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    That's the hilarious thing champ.

    The classes don't feel complete. Because they were completely and utterly gutted to be designed around their Artifact and Legendaries.


    Then they went right ahead and gutted those too, whilst adding absolutely nothing to fill the gaping hole left over. Lmfao this is too easy.
    Yes they do feel complete. In legion they did felt hollow without all that stuff.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Mythics aren't good, too much trash and too much of it can't be CCed. Eternal Palace is okay, a bit on the easy side.
    "checking armory" 7/8 HC, 748 io... fucking /facepalm
    I.O BFA Season 3


  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Oh okay. We're going to play that game?

    15ish Artifact Traits.
    1 Artifact Ability.
    2 Legendary talents.
    2 Set bonuses.

    vs

    3 shitty passive procs (6 if you count the double rings from 8.1)


    I mean. It's not that hard to compare is it? The Azerite "traits" are also all hilariously shit passive procs. "+84 mastery for 12 seconds"


    I can't believe people are still making this argument.
    Most of the artifact traits where just "shit passive procs" as well though and some of them are just baseline now. But hey if you don't like it, play something else.
    Your childish outbursts here will not help you.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    That's your subjective opinion man.
    Then tell me what is missing from classes?

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Not trying to confirm anything, however i personally do not like Naz. I do really enjoy Mecha though, and think it suits the daily style of gameplay far better - accessible, and easy to consume in small bites. If they insist on pushing further and further down the D3 road with quick daily content, this is the way to go - naz is just not enjoyable for me at all.
    Haven't been to Mechagon yet as I said. Maybe I should try that because Nazjatar is driving me away more from 8.2 than it would keep me retained.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Most of the artifact traits where just "shit passive procs" as well though and some of them are just baseline now. But hey if you don't like it, play something else.
    Your childish outbursts here will not help you.
    Uhm, there were not only 3 major passive traits, some minor passive traits had some major effects attached to them as well. BfA specs are bare bones compared to Legion specs. Pruning gone wrong and Blizzard knows it. Pruning wasn't even the main issue, the main issue they added nothing for character progression in exchange of the pruning.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again
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  13. #353
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
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    M+ were OK with lots of annyoing flaws. I liked how my specs played.

    But pretty much everything else sucked.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Most of the artifact traits where just "shit passive procs" as well though and some of them are just baseline now. But hey if you don't like it, play something else.
    Your childish outbursts here will not help you.
    I mean everyone should have learned by now that Scarecrowz is some autistic kid who has literally no idea what he's talking about.

    Why even bother trying to have a debate or a semi-intelligent conversation with him? Literally all he does is come here to bitch about WoW with self-contradictory "arguments" (if they can even be called that). Probably a LFR / sub 1500 hero who hasn't achieved anything in the game and never will tbh.

    Regarding OP, I don't think BfA is as bad as the internet meme hate bandwagon tries to make it out to be because it's cool to hate on Blizzard and WoW nowadays after Blizzcon 2018. It's FAR from a good expansion, however. I'd say it's about average - mediocre in the true meaning of the word.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    I mean everyone should have learned by now that Scarecrowz is some autistic kid who has literally no idea what he's talking about.

    Why even bother trying to have a debate or a semi-intelligent conversation with him? Literally all he does is come here to bitch about WoW with self-contradictory "arguments" (if they can even be called that). Probably a LFR / sub 1500 hero who hasn't achieved anything in the game and never will tbh.

    Regarding OP, I don't think BfA is as bad as the internet meme hate bandwagon tries to make it out to be because it's cool to hate on Blizzard and WoW nowadays after Blizzcon 2018. It's FAR from a good expansion, however. I'd say it's about average - mediocre in the true meaning of the word.
    I guess you're right. I haven't spent as much time on MMO-C the last year or two so I might not get whos trolling and whos not anymore.
    I can agree on that. About average.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Haven't been to Mechagon yet as I said. Maybe I should try that because Nazjatar is driving me away more from 8.2 than it would keep me retained.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uhm, there were not only 3 major passive traits, some minor passive traits had some major effects attached to them as well. BfA specs are bare bones compared to Legion specs. Pruning gone wrong and Blizzard knows it. Pruning wasn't even the main issue, the main issue they added nothing for character progression in exchange of the pruning.
    But you litteraly have the same traits as either passives, talents or traits in BfA. The specs might have felt a bit bland at the star but with all the gear and the neck and everything we have no it really is more or less the same specs.
    They also didn't really remove anything but passive stats and extra damage.

    You are free to not like the expansion but don't try to make up pointless crap. It's enough to just say that you simply don't like it.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    But you litteraly have the same traits as either passives, talents or traits in BfA. The specs might have felt a bit bland at the star but with all the gear and the neck and everything we have no it really is more or less the same specs.
    They also didn't really remove anything but passive stats and extra damage.
    I simply don't like it, yes. It's still not pointless because classes in BfA lost more than than they've got. Least specs got their artifact ability (for free). Many specs had former baseline skills turned into talents (Shadow Priest for example). Legendary effects have in most cases entirely been removed. Azerite armor is at best compensating the passive artifact traits. That's it. And please don't bring up essences. They're identical for all classes and offer not more than a usual CD button.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again
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  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I simply don't like it, yes. It's still not pointless because classes in BfA lost more than than they've got. Least specs got their artifact ability (for free). Many specs had former baseline skills turned into talents (Shadow Priest for example). Legendary effects have in most cases entirely been removed. Azerite armor is at best compensating the passive artifact traits. That's it. And please don't bring up essences. They're identical for all classes and offer not more than a usual CD button.
    But the only thing that was really lost was the passives and in many cases they were simply baked into the class anyway. You have more major traits now and you even have a few to pick from, you did get the essences and even if they are the same for all classes that doesn't take anything away from your class. Some of them really speed up game play and sure as heck are more exiting that your average CD as well.

    You are, again, free to not like the expansion but in most cases more was added than was taken away.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    But the only thing that was really lost was the passives and in many cases they were simply baked into the class anyway. You have more major traits now and you even have a few to pick from, you did get the essences and even if they are the same for all classes that doesn't take anything away from your class. Some of them really speed up game play and sure as heck are more exiting that your average CD as well.

    You are, again, free to not like the expansion but in most cases more was added than was taken away.
    Again, that just isn't true at all.

    From Legion to BfA we lost:

    - Artifact skills
    - Artifact traits
    - Legendary effects
    - Set bonuses

    I give you that some classes got their artifact skills as talents but what happened in this case? Right, they entirely removed a former talent (or in least cases baked it into the class) to get it done. The same happened with some major passive artifact traits. They replaced former talents that were entirely removed (or in least cases, again, baked into the class). Then we had the legendary effects that in most cases got removed entirely. Right now not one single legendary comes to my mind that is a talent or something similar now (I'm sure there might be some examples yet I don't know about any). So that wasn't enough in most cases and classes got even pruned further, like with the Shadow Priest where Shadow Word: Death all of a sudden is a talent now. Shadow Priest lost two buttons in BfA that replaced former "real" talents. That's two skills I have less than before.

    Again, Azerite traits might be a mixture of former artifact traits and set bonuses but they're not enough to feel your character develop in any way. They're passive effects that barely matter. Essences are the opposite, they're active effects that barely matter and that's not even individual to classes.

    How can you even think of saying classes in BfA got more than what was removed when class design is the major criticism of this expansion and even Blizzard acknowledged that they messed it up?
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again
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  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Again, that just isn't true at all.

    From Legion to BfA we lost:

    - Artifact skills
    - Artifact traits
    - Legendary effects
    - Set bonuses

    I give you that some classes got their artifact skills as talents but what happened in this case? Right, they entirely removed a former talent (or in least cases baked it into the class) to get it done. The same happened with some major passive artifact traits. They replaced former talents that were entirely removed (or in least cases, again, baked into the class). Then we had the legendary effects that in most cases got removed entirely. Right now not one single legendary comes to my mind that is a talent or something similar now (I'm sure there might be some examples yet I don't know about any). So that wasn't enough in most cases and classes got even pruned further, like with the Shadow Priest where Shadow Word: Death all of a sudden is a talent now. Shadow Priest lost two buttons in BfA that replaced former "real" talents. That's two skills I have less than before.

    Again, Azerite traits might be a mixture of former artifact traits and set bonuses but they're not enough to feel your character develop in any way. They're passive effects that barely matter. Essences are the opposite, they're active effects that barely matter and that's not even individual to classes.

    How can you even think of saying classes in BfA got more than what was removed when class design is the major criticism of this expansion and even Blizzard acknowledged that they messed it up?
    You make zero sense though. You got the same passives, you have the same traits and you also have Essences. Essences are extreme buffs to your output as well so how you can say that they "barely matter" is just silly. Your feelings on the matter does not change the fact that you basicaly have the same spec now compared to Legion in most cases.

    Blizzard also never said that they messed up. Not once, not ever. They reverted som changes such as the GCD-limitations and that was a horrible change to begin with, I can agree on that but seeing how thats gone thats hardly an issue anymore. Class design might not be on point but it was just as bad in Legion and thats my point.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by KingMavros View Post
    The people that like BFA are the ones probably asking to make cata dungeons easier at start of expansion. #facts.
    Why thank you feels good man!

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