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  1. #101
    What if they exiled both Umbric and Alleria because they don't want Sylvanas to have that kind of power at reach.

    #tinfoilhat

    (/s)

  2. #102
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Blood elves had to use fel(which is nothing bad in their opinion, even now) because their precious Sunwell has been destroyed. Void magic is very dangerous for the Sunwell, so it is prohibited to avoid situation from Warcraft 3 when many children and old elves died. There is nothing hypocritical because they, just as always, put their safety and convenience before anything.
    I'm sorry, but it's still completely hypocritical, any way you slice it.

    Yes, void magic is dangerous to mix with holy magic, but here's the thing: just forbid void magic practice anywhere near the Sunwell, and we're gucci. Fel magic isn't allowed near the Sunwell, either, I imagine, considering it was that what caused its corruption in the first place.

    And the blood elves did capture, enslave and experiment on a Naaru, to the point it caused the Naaru to fall into void, and that was not done out of "necessity". It was actually done in spite because they believed the Light had abandoned them.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #103
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    It's what I like to call the Elf Cycle. Elf get power, get strong. Elf get too much power, bad stuff happens. Elf swears to be good, some elf still want power and leave. Elf get new power. Cycle repeats. It happened with Arcane for the night elves, fel with the blood elves, and it's going to happen again. All this void energy is going to end up summoning some void lord or some such. The void elves will promise to regulate their void magics, some will leave to be evil shaman or something.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, void magic is dangerous to mix with holy magic, but here's the thing: just forbid void magic practice anywhere near the Sunwell, and we're gucci. Fel magic isn't allowed near the Sunwell, either, I imagine, considering it was that what caused its corruption in the first place.
    No. It did not. It was death magic which is, despite popular opinion, completely different cosmic force.
    And the blood elves did capture, enslave and experiment on a Naaru, to the point it caused the Naaru to fall into void, and that was not done out of "necessity". It was actually done in spite because they believed the Light had abandoned them.
    Their necessity was to consume the energy, any energy. Naaru were powerful energy source. The fact that they were beings of Light was just an additional motif. Also, elves have experimenting on magical beings in their nature.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  5. #105
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    They're trying to move past it, so they distance themselves from acts that could be percieved as similar, and a source of power that is very fucking dangerous, nearly fucked up shit again because Alleria had a visit, intent or not. It makes sense.
    It was going to happen if she was there or not. Her being there helped them save the sunwell.

    If I recall correctly that’s what the dialogue of the bad void followers came off as.

    But it’s understandable for the blood elves to be extra cautious.
    Last edited by TigTone; 2019-08-24 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #106
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    No. It did not. It was death magic which is, despite popular opinion, completely different cosmic force.
    Regardless, the point still stands: just forbid void magic practice anywhere near the Sunwell and there is no problem.

    Their necessity was to consume the energy, any energy. Naaru were powerful energy source. The fact that they were beings of Light was just an additional motif. Also, elves have experimenting on magical beings in their nature.
    False. Capturing M'uru had nothing to do with survival or the need to feed on magical energy. They already had Kael'Thas teachings of siphoning mana from living beings which was enough, as well as all those fel crystals around Silvermoon.

    "A key theme in the blood elven narrative is the Light's fall from grace in Thalassian society, and its subsequent revival following The Burning Crusade's finale. Most of the elves became disillusioned with the Light following the Third War, holding it in contempt for failing their homeland in its hour of greatest need.[59] With this mindset, the elves came to incorporate the notion of "bending" the Light to their will, and seeing themselves as its true masters as a result of this dominion: the other paladins of the world are forced to live by a strict moral doctrine when wielding the Light and its blessings, yet the Blood Knights had efficiently circumvented this by using Prince Kael'thas's teachings on the captured naaru, M'uru, siphoning his Light-given energy to fuel their paladin-esque abilities."

    They did it out of spite, as revenge against the perceived betrayal of the Light to the blood elves.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Regardless, the point still stands: just forbid void magic practice anywhere near the Sunwell and there is no problem.
    We don't know how sensitive the Sunwell is. Near is very flexible term.

    False. Capturing M'uru had nothing to do with survival or the need to feed on magical energy. They already had Kael'Thas teachings of siphoning mana from living beings which was enough, as well as all those fel crystals around Silvermoon.
    There is never enough of power, my friend. Naaru were extremely powerful energy generators and they would use them anyway.But that doesn't mean they wouldn't do that otherwise. Kael'thas just came for energy and technology.

    "Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider and his blood elves waited until the newly arrived naaru departed Tempest Keep. He had little interest in what the naaru hoped to accomplish on this shattered world: it was Tempest Keep that had brought him here. At the prince's signal the elves stormed the dimensional fortress, quickly defeating its automated defenses and claiming its satellite structures. The only real threat the elves discovered was a lone naaru who had stayed behind to maintain the keep's defenses. With some difficulty, Kael'thas subdued the energy being and sent it to Quel'Thalas so that the magic-addicted blood elves could feed upon it.
    Back in the capital city of Silvermoon, Magister Astalor Bloodsworn was not content with this idea. After long months of study and experimentation, he and his fellow wizards learned how to manipulate and corrupt the naaru's luminous energies. In the end the wizards devised a process by which the powers of the Light could be transferred to recipients who had not earned such abilities. Instead of feeding upon the naaru's magic, the blood elves would wield the naaru's Light-given powers themselves."


    The vengeance is just a sweet addition.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  8. #108
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    They were a threat to the Sunwell and as a result the Thalassian way of life. Before it’s restoration they would have been fine with them.

    They could have kept them a friendly distance in the Ghostlands. But the Void Elves seem to lean heavily to the Alliance anyway, so they were a twofold risk.
    Last edited by Aeula; 2019-08-24 at 07:40 PM.

  9. #109
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    We don't know how sensitive the Sunwell is. Near is very flexible term.
    Considering Alleria's void magic only reacted to the Sunwell when she was right next to it, I'd say "near" is almost a synonym to "almost standing on top of it". But if you want to be on the safe side, it's easy: ban the use of void magic anywhere in the building that houses the Sunwell. Or, if you want to be extra-super-duper-careful, just outlaw it in the Isle of Quel'Danas. There, problem solved.

    There is never enough of power, my friend. Naaru were extremely powerful energy generators and they would use them anyway.
    But that doesn't mean they wouldn't do that otherwise. Kael'thas just came for energy and technology.
    That line alone shows that the capture and torture of the Naaru was not done out of necessity, but out of greed and spite. The problem with their addiction was solved the moment the blood elves adopted the idea of draining mana from living beings and started herding mana wyrms.

    "Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider and his blood elves waited until the newly arrived naaru departed Tempest Keep. He had little interest in what the naaru hoped to accomplish on this shattered world: it was Tempest Keep that had brought him here. At the prince's signal the elves stormed the dimensional fortress, quickly defeating its automated defenses and claiming its satellite structures. The only real threat the elves discovered was a lone naaru who had stayed behind to maintain the keep's defenses. With some difficulty, Kael'thas subdued the energy being and sent it to Quel'Thalas so that the magic-addicted blood elves could feed upon it.
    Back in the capital city of Silvermoon, Magister Astalor Bloodsworn was not content with this idea. After long months of study and experimentation, he and his fellow wizards learned how to manipulate and corrupt the naaru's luminous energies. In the end the wizards devised a process by which the powers of the Light could be transferred to recipients who had not earned such abilities. Instead of feeding upon the naaru's magic, the blood elves would wield the naaru's Light-given powers themselves."


    The vengeance is just a sweet addition.
    Your quote does not support your idea, exclusively. For example, it could be said that the blood elves "feeding" on the Naaru is Kael'Thas' idea of retribution and revenge for the Light's perceived injustices toward the blood elves, and not done "because the blood elves need to feed."
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    It was going to happen if she was there or not. Her being there helped them save the sunwell.

    If I recall correctly that’s what the dialogue of the bad void followers came off as.

    But it’s understandable for the blood elves to be extra cautious.
    Her being near the sunwall was what invited the void in.

  11. #111
    I don't get how learning from your mistakes is hypocritical.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I don't get how learning from your mistakes is hypocritical.
    Pretty much this. Criticizing Sin’dorei for actually trying to prevent repeating past mistake is extra retardation. If anything Anduin is stupid for letting a ticking time bomb entering stormwind.

  13. #113
    Void Elves should have been Horde.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Considering Alleria's void magic only reacted to the Sunwell when she was right next to it, I'd say "near" is almost a synonym to "almost standing on top of it". But if you want to be on the safe side, it's easy: ban the use of void magic anywhere in the building that houses the Sunwell. Or, if you want to be extra-super-duper-careful, just outlaw it in the Isle of Quel'Danas. There, problem solved.
    Yet again, she only touched it. This is not void magic per se.

    That line alone shows that the capture and torture of the Naaru was not done out of necessity, but out of greed and spite. The problem with their addiction was solved the moment the blood elves adopted the idea of draining mana from living beings and started herding mana wyrms.
    Do we really know how much magic does the population of Quel'thalas need? Not to mention that they propably plan to reproduce, as 90% of them died in the third war.

    Your quote does not support your idea, exclusively. For example, it could be said that the blood elves "feeding" on the Naaru is Kael'Thas' idea of retribution and revenge for the Light's perceived injustices toward the blood elves, and not done "because the blood elves need to feed."
    It doesn't support your idea either.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    That's b/s, like every person, even elves sometimes have a bad day, adn sometimes don't react in the usual noble and great ways people react.

    If you had been traumatized by a genocide event, it would change your people, and they might go a bit extreme, but it wasn't for long. Blood elves aren't dishonourable. it's not how blizzard paints them after TBC.
    So supporting the slaughter of innocent women and children isn't dishonourable??

  16. #116
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Yet again, she only touched it. This is not void magic per se.
    Again, it's irrelevant, because it doesn't address the point: just make the practice of void magic forbidden in all of the isle of Quel'danas if you want to be super-cautious about it, and done.

    Do we really know how much magic does the population of Quel'thalas need? Not to mention that they propably plan to reproduce, as 90% of them died in the third war.
    Unless you can prove that blood elves reproduce like rabbits, that's an irrelevant point to make. And again: they have herds of mana wyrms. On top of that, the blood elves' animosity (to put it mildly) towards the Light was made crystal clear during TBC, prior to the cleansing of the Sunwell and the subsequent redemption of the blood elves.

    There is no real indication that M'uru was sent to Silvermoon to counter the "magic famine", but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that does point to that being to punish the Light and enslave its powers.

    It doesn't support your idea either.
    Exclusively? True, it does not. But it does lend more credence to mine than yours, especially when you consider the rest of the evidence. Again, back in TBC, as a new paladin character, you are instructed to use your ability "Mana Tap" to drain from M'uru. No other class had that. On top of that, after Kael'Thas absconds with M'uru from Silvermoon, one of the blood elves has this to say: "Kael'thas and his felbloods be damned! All we've worked for is gone, but they're fools to think we won't fight back. Already, Lady Liadrin seeks a new source of power for our order. We will not be destroyed so easily." Notice how the only importance of M'uru seems to be as a 'power source' for the Blood Knights, and not a "food" source for the blood elves as a whole.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Neenaw View Post
    So supporting the slaughter of innocent women and children isn't dishonourable??
    Do the night elves even have children?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, it's irrelevant, because it doesn't address the point: just make the practice of void magic forbidden in all of the isle of Quel'danas if you want to be super-cautious about it, and done.
    And what if radiation from Silvermoon is strong enough to reach Quel'danas?

    Unless you can prove that blood elves reproduce like rabbits, that's an irrelevant point to make. And again: they have herds of mana wyrms. On top of that, the blood elves' animosity (to put it mildly) towards the Light was made crystal clear during TBC, prior to the cleansing of the Sunwell and the subsequent redemption of the blood elves.
    Are these herds big enough?

    There is no real indication that M'uru was sent to Silvermoon to counter the "magic famine", but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that does point to that being to punish the Light and enslave its powers.
    I already posted the proof.

    Exclusively? True, it does not. But it does lend more credence to mine than yours, especially when you consider the rest of the evidence. Again, back in TBC, as a new paladin character, you are instructed to use your ability "Mana Tap" to drain from M'uru. No other class had that. On top of that, after Kael'Thas absconds with M'uru from Silvermoon, one of the blood elves has this to say: "Kael'thas and his felbloods be damned! All we've worked for is gone, but they're fools to think we won't fight back. Already, Lady Liadrin seeks a new source of power for our order. We will not be destroyed so easily." Notice how the only importance of M'uru seems to be as a 'power source' for the Blood Knights, and not a "food" source for the blood elves as a whole.
    That just points that Kael'thas distributed that power specifically for paladins. After all, they are the only ones capable of using it to harness holy magic. Why would he give them mana wyrms and naaru to warlocks?
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  18. #118
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    And what if radiation from Silvermoon is strong enough to reach Quel'danas?
    First, you'd need to prove that void magic has such a powerful radiation that it can traverse the sea and still be strong enough to go through the buildings protecting the Sunwell. And then you'd need to prove that simple radiation is enough to trigger a reaction in the Sunwell.

    Are these herds big enough?
    Considering we never saw a single blood elf suffering of hunger or withdrawal, and the still destroyed half of Silvermoon are filled with Wretched, who are blood elves who overindulge in mana sapping, I'd say that yes, they have enough mana sources to feed themselves.

    I already posted the proof.
    Proof of what? That they can reproduce like rabbits? Because if you're claiming that you posted proof that the reason M'uru was kidnapped was to feed the hungering blood elves... no, you didn't, since your piece of evidence does not exclusively point to your conclusion.

    That just points that Kael'thas distributed that power specifically for paladins. After all, they are the only ones capable of using it to harness holy magic. Why would he give them mana wyrms and naaru to warlocks?
    The statement I put in bold further supports the idea that the reason M'uru was captured was to "punish" the Light, since if it was just for the paladins, then that means the rest of the blood elves did not need it. Mana is mana, doesn't matter if it is drained from a naaru, a demon or an elemental.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  19. #119
    People who claim the playable Blood Elves sucked on fel should stfu because they prove they don't know anything about the lore they try to shit on. They never did, as has been stated in the past by Blizzard themselves. And the green eyes have also been explained to be from radiation because a FEW Blood Elves like Rommath used it to rebuild Silvermoon (without the average Blood Elf knowing).

    And even if they did, while using Fel would have been a desperate necessity for survival, that necessity doesn't exist now. It's a difference if people resort to cannibalism during times of great struggle and have no other means to survive or if they do it while living in security and not the slightest danger of starving.

    Also, most of the hate comes from Alliance people that after ~13 years are still butthurt that Blood Elves are on the Horde. If they were Alliance and exiled the Void Elves who then would have joined the Horde they'd be totally justified and Void Elves would have been the lowest of scum ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    First, you'd need to prove that void magic has such a powerful radiation that it can traverse the sea and still be strong enough to go through the buildings protecting the Sunwell.
    No. It is you who has to prove that it is not. Otherwise void magic is potential threat to the Sunwell.
    And then you'd need to prove that simple radiation is enough to trigger a reaction in the Sunwell.
    Alleria's touch is enough.
    Considering we never saw a single blood elf suffering of hunger or withdrawal, and the still destroyed half of Silvermoon are filled with Wretched, who are blood elves who overindulge in mana sapping, I'd say that yes, they have enough mana sources to feed themselves.
    There are obese people in countries suffering from famine.

    Proof of what? That they can reproduce like rabbits? Because if you're claiming that you posted proof that the reason M'uru was kidnapped was to feed the hungering blood elves... no, you didn't, since your piece of evidence does not exclusively point to your conclusion.
    It does. Kael kidnapped him to use his as energy source. This is the direct meaning of that sentence.

    The statement I put in bold further supports the idea that the reason M'uru was captured was to "punish" the Light, since if it was just for the paladins, then that means the rest of the blood elves did not need it.
    This only means that naaru can be better used by priests and paladins. If WoW magic is in anything similar to physics, converting one type of energy to another means some energy leaks.
    Mana is mana, doesn't matter if it is drained from a naaru, a demon or an elemental.
    This statement shows that blood elves would kidnap him regardless of their opinion on the Light.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

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