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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Neenaw View Post
    So supporting the slaughter of innocent women and children isn't dishonourable??
    Do the night elves even have children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, it's irrelevant, because it doesn't address the point: just make the practice of void magic forbidden in all of the isle of Quel'danas if you want to be super-cautious about it, and done.
    And what if radiation from Silvermoon is strong enough to reach Quel'danas?

    Unless you can prove that blood elves reproduce like rabbits, that's an irrelevant point to make. And again: they have herds of mana wyrms. On top of that, the blood elves' animosity (to put it mildly) towards the Light was made crystal clear during TBC, prior to the cleansing of the Sunwell and the subsequent redemption of the blood elves.
    Are these herds big enough?

    There is no real indication that M'uru was sent to Silvermoon to counter the "magic famine", but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that does point to that being to punish the Light and enslave its powers.
    I already posted the proof.

    Exclusively? True, it does not. But it does lend more credence to mine than yours, especially when you consider the rest of the evidence. Again, back in TBC, as a new paladin character, you are instructed to use your ability "Mana Tap" to drain from M'uru. No other class had that. On top of that, after Kael'Thas absconds with M'uru from Silvermoon, one of the blood elves has this to say: "Kael'thas and his felbloods be damned! All we've worked for is gone, but they're fools to think we won't fight back. Already, Lady Liadrin seeks a new source of power for our order. We will not be destroyed so easily." Notice how the only importance of M'uru seems to be as a 'power source' for the Blood Knights, and not a "food" source for the blood elves as a whole.
    That just points that Kael'thas distributed that power specifically for paladins. After all, they are the only ones capable of using it to harness holy magic. Why would he give them mana wyrms and naaru to warlocks?
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    And what if radiation from Silvermoon is strong enough to reach Quel'danas?
    First, you'd need to prove that void magic has such a powerful radiation that it can traverse the sea and still be strong enough to go through the buildings protecting the Sunwell. And then you'd need to prove that simple radiation is enough to trigger a reaction in the Sunwell.

    Are these herds big enough?
    Considering we never saw a single blood elf suffering of hunger or withdrawal, and the still destroyed half of Silvermoon are filled with Wretched, who are blood elves who overindulge in mana sapping, I'd say that yes, they have enough mana sources to feed themselves.

    I already posted the proof.
    Proof of what? That they can reproduce like rabbits? Because if you're claiming that you posted proof that the reason M'uru was kidnapped was to feed the hungering blood elves... no, you didn't, since your piece of evidence does not exclusively point to your conclusion.

    That just points that Kael'thas distributed that power specifically for paladins. After all, they are the only ones capable of using it to harness holy magic. Why would he give them mana wyrms and naaru to warlocks?
    The statement I put in bold further supports the idea that the reason M'uru was captured was to "punish" the Light, since if it was just for the paladins, then that means the rest of the blood elves did not need it. Mana is mana, doesn't matter if it is drained from a naaru, a demon or an elemental.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
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  3. #123
    People who claim the playable Blood Elves sucked on fel should stfu because they prove they don't know anything about the lore they try to shit on. They never did, as has been stated in the past by Blizzard themselves. And the green eyes have also been explained to be from radiation because a FEW Blood Elves like Rommath used it to rebuild Silvermoon (without the average Blood Elf knowing).

    And even if they did, while using Fel would have been a desperate necessity for survival, that necessity doesn't exist now. It's a difference if people resort to cannibalism during times of great struggle and have no other means to survive or if they do it while living in security and not the slightest danger of starving.

    Also, most of the hate comes from Alliance people that after ~13 years are still butthurt that Blood Elves are on the Horde. If they were Alliance and exiled the Void Elves who then would have joined the Horde they'd be totally justified and Void Elves would have been the lowest of scum ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    when i learned anythin from mmo-c then it is that shit is only bad when the horde does it
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    First, you'd need to prove that void magic has such a powerful radiation that it can traverse the sea and still be strong enough to go through the buildings protecting the Sunwell.
    No. It is you who has to prove that it is not. Otherwise void magic is potential threat to the Sunwell.
    And then you'd need to prove that simple radiation is enough to trigger a reaction in the Sunwell.
    Alleria's touch is enough.
    Considering we never saw a single blood elf suffering of hunger or withdrawal, and the still destroyed half of Silvermoon are filled with Wretched, who are blood elves who overindulge in mana sapping, I'd say that yes, they have enough mana sources to feed themselves.
    There are obese people in countries suffering from famine.

    Proof of what? That they can reproduce like rabbits? Because if you're claiming that you posted proof that the reason M'uru was kidnapped was to feed the hungering blood elves... no, you didn't, since your piece of evidence does not exclusively point to your conclusion.
    It does. Kael kidnapped him to use his as energy source. This is the direct meaning of that sentence.

    The statement I put in bold further supports the idea that the reason M'uru was captured was to "punish" the Light, since if it was just for the paladins, then that means the rest of the blood elves did not need it.
    This only means that naaru can be better used by priests and paladins. If WoW magic is in anything similar to physics, converting one type of energy to another means some energy leaks.
    Mana is mana, doesn't matter if it is drained from a naaru, a demon or an elemental.
    This statement shows that blood elves would kidnap him regardless of their opinion on the Light.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    No. It is you who has to prove that it is not. Otherwise void magic is potential threat to the Sunwell.
    That's not how it works. You made this claim about "radiation" when nothing in the lore, so far, has exhibited any kind of "radiation" that is anywhere that powerful, so the burden of proof falls on you to show that void magic "radiation" behaves like nothing ever demonstrated on lore yet. And I never said void magic is not dangerous to the Sunwell, I simply said that much less extreme precautionary measures could have been using, like outlawing the usage of void magic near the Sunwell, or anywhere in the Isle of Quel'danas if you wanted to be extra careful.

    Alleria's touch is enough.
    This goes in direct contradiction as to your previous claim, as Alleria had to touch the Sunwell to cause the reaction. The "void magic radiation" was not enough, apparently.

    There are obese people in countries suffering from famine.
    Irrelevant as it does not pertain to the point.

    It does. Kael kidnapped him to use his as energy source. This is the direct meaning of that sentence.
    It doesn't, and I explained why. It can be taken as Kael'Thas' chosen method of punishing the Light for ignoring the blood elves in their darkest hour.

    This only means that naaru can be better used by priests and paladins. If WoW magic is in anything similar to physics, converting one type of energy to another means some energy leaks.
    Except magic is not physics. In fact, magic seems to be the opposite of physics as what it does is, well, "break the laws of physics."

    This statement shows that blood elves would kidnap him regardless of their opinion on the Light.
    It absolutely does not, no matter how you slice it. Blood elves had sated their addiction problem when they learned how to drain mana from living beings. And the reason that's a fact is the huge abundance of "wretched" elves, who are blood elves who overindulge in mana and end up in that state.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  6. #126
    Elves are INCREDIBLY stubborn, shallow, self-servimg egoistical and fickle. With that it mind it makes a lot of the more radical allegiance shifts make more sense.

    On Void Elves, I wish they actually raised more about how cataclysmically dangerous it is having the Void Elves casually strolling around Stormwind. Even Deathwing fell to the whispers eventually. Anduin has WAY too much faith at them all keeping it at bay, when it would just need one to slip up to be a serious danger to everyone.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That's not how it works. You made this claim about "radiation" when nothing in the lore, so far, has exhibited any kind of "radiation" that is anywhere that powerful, so the burden of proof falls on you to show that void magic "radiation" behaves like nothing ever demonstrated on lore yet. And I never said void magic is not dangerous to the Sunwell, I simply said that much less extreme precautionary measures could have been using, like outlawing the usage of void magic near the Sunwell, or anywhere in the Isle of Quel'danas if you wanted to be extra careful.
    So you want to risk the Sunwell just to introduce new discipline of magic nobody asked for?
    This goes in direct contradiction as to your previous claim, as Alleria had to touch the Sunwell to cause the reaction. The "void magic radiation" was not enough, apparently.
    I assure you that her touch is much less than void magic radiation. It is like saying that Jaina's hands are more potent than radiation caused by her spellcasting.

    Irrelevant as it does not pertain to the point.
    If you distirbute a good(mana) improperly, some people will have too much and some would not have enough.

    It doesn't, and I explained why. It can be taken as Kael'Thas' chosen method of punishing the Light for ignoring the blood elves in their darkest hour.
    Show me when did Kael'thas plan such vendetta.
    Except magic is not physics. In fact, magic seems to be the opposite of physics as what it does is, well, "break the laws of physics."
    We know that transformation of Ashbringer to be holy requires you to spend mana. Also, fel mana potions reduce your spellpower.

    It absolutely does not, no matter how you slice it. Blood elves had sated their addiction problem when they learned how to drain mana from living beings. And the reason that's a fact is the huge abundance of "wretched" elves, who are blood elves who overindulge in mana and end up in that state.
    But they are minority and they are usually not from the ruling caste, so we can't say the entire society has abundance of mana.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, it's irrelevant, because it doesn't address the point: just make the practice of void magic forbidden in all of the isle of Quel'danas if you want to be super-cautious about it, and done.
    Even better idea, how about starting inquisition to hunt and burn every void practicioner.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    So you want to risk the Sunwell just to introduce new discipline of magic nobody asked for?
    And now you're moving goalposts, since this was never about "what people asked for."

    I assure you that her touch is much less than void magic radiation. It is like saying that Jaina's hands are more potent than radiation caused by her spellcasting.
    Then "I assure you" that you don't know what you're talking about. Your first claim was that "just void radiation is enough to put the Sunwell in danger" and then what you said next it "radiation wasn't enough to put the Sunwell in danger, Alleria had to touch it."

    The simple fact Alleria had to be almost on top of the Sunwell and actually touch it to cause a reaction goes directly against your claim that "void magic radiation is enough to put the Sunwell in danger", much less radiation from all the way from Silvermoon.

    If you distirbute a good(mana) improperly, some people will have too much and some would not have enough.
    Ok, then prove that "mana" was distributed improperly in Silvermoon. This is another claim of yours that goes directly against what is shown in the game since not only we see no blood elf "starving" in the streets, but the city itself is littered with those fel crystals that provide magic to all.

    Show me when did Kael'thas plan such vendetta.
    I never said that was Kael'Thas' plan. I simply said it could be, and it's supported by the fact the blood elves held the Light in contempt and blamed it for "abandoning the blood elves" when they most needed it.

    We know that transformation of Ashbringer to be holy requires you to spend mana. Also, fel mana potions reduce your spellpower.
    You're talking as if the Ashbringer doesn't exude magic as well. I don't think the Ashbringer had ever required to be "recharged" after reducing hordes of undead monsters to ash. As for the fel mana potions... gee, perhaps their adverse effect could be caused by the fact it's a FEL mana potion? After all, it's a fact that fel magic has adverse effects on one's body.

    But they are minority and they are usually not from the ruling caste, so we can't say the entire society has abundance of mana.
    Two claims, no evidence. First: saying they're "a minority" doesn't mean anything. 49.9% of a population is still technically "a minority". And how do you know none of those wretches are from "the ruling caste"?
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And now you're moving goalposts, since this was never about "what people asked for."
    I mean, people of Quel'thalas. Umbric's followers are minority.

    Then "I assure you" that you don't know what you're talking about. Your first claim was that "just void radiation is enough to put the Sunwell in danger" and then what you said next it "radiation wasn't enough to put the Sunwell in danger, Alleria had to touch it."

    The simple fact Alleria had to be almost on top of the Sunwell and actually touch it to cause a reaction goes directly against your claim that "void magic radiation is enough to put the Sunwell in danger", much less radiation from all the way from Silvermoon.
    She wasn't using magic so there could not be any greater radiation.
    Ok, then prove that "mana" was distributed improperly in Silvermoon. This is another claim of yours that goes directly against what is shown in the game since not only we see no blood elf "starving" in the streets, but the city itself is littered with those fel crystals that provide magic to all.
    I yield on this one.
    However, the wretched become wretched if they consume too much magic at once by, for example, stealing other elf's rations. It is possible that they can overdose even without abundance.
    I never said that was Kael'Thas' plan. I simply said it could be, and it's supported by the fact the blood elves held the Light in contempt and blamed it for "abandoning the blood elves" when they most needed it.
    Yes, it could be. But it doesn't have to.
    You're talking as if the Ashbringer doesn't exude magic as well. I don't think the Ashbringer had ever required to be "recharged" after reducing hordes of undead monsters to ash. As for the fel mana potions... gee, perhaps their adverse effect could be caused by the fact it's a FEL mana potion? After all, it's a fact that fel magic has adverse effects on one's body.
    Ashbringer requires "recharge" in case someone corrupts it, like Balnazzar in Legion. Fel mana potion is weird because it reduces spellpower instead of health.

    Also, it is quite interesting that some kinds of energy conversions never occured in WoW. For example, there is no mages using arcane to conjure light or darkness. Or on that manner, fel used to conjure nature. There might be some rules for that.

    Two claims, no evidence. First: saying they're "a minority" doesn't mean anything. 49.9% of a population is still technically "a minority".
    And how do you know none of those wretches are from "the ruling caste"?
    I said usually. There is little mentions of them being commanders of some forces or aristocrats. What I want to say is that they are msot likely rogue elements that gained mana through illegal means.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    I mean, people of Quel'thalas. Umbric's followers are minority.
    Same thing. It's still you moving the goal posts, since the issue was never about "what the people asked for."

    She wasn't using magic so there could not be any greater radiation.
    She still is a practitioner of void magic, so there should be lingering effects on her. Also, it just occurred to me: you're heavily implying that the blood elves are so reckless and irresponsible that, if not outlawed, they'd practice void magic in the near vicinity of the Sunwell, despite knowing the effects of mixing void and holy magic.

    On top of that, in the exact same scenario, as a void portal opens, Alleria uses her void magic to close the portal, and nothing bad happened due to her using void magic right on top of the Sunwell.

    I yield on this one.
    However, the wretched become wretched if they consume too much magic at once by, for example, stealing other elf's rations. It is possible that they can overdose even without abundance.
    Yes, it could be. But it doesn't have to.
    Again, we see nothing in the game that indicates the Wretched were stealing from other blood elves as the only cases of that happening is AFTER they became wretched and overtaken by their thirst for magic.

    Ashbringer requires "recharge" in case someone corrupts it, like Balnazzar in Legion. Fel mana potion is weird because it reduces spellpower instead of health.
    Ashbringer's corruption still doesn't mean that magic behaves like physics does in the real world. And as for the potion, re-read the item's name: FEL mana potion. Fel. Fel. Fel magic has adverse effects on a person's body.

    I said usually. There is little mentions of them being commanders of some forces or aristocrats. What I want to say is that they are msot likely rogue elements that gained mana through illegal means.
    And again, that would require evidence. Even if there are no "aristocrats or elites", it doesn't mean they're lowlifes that stole from others.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    There is a fundemental difference at the core.

    Fel Magic, while bad, doesn't hold a significant chance to corrupt you, your loved ones, and those around you. Used properly, like the Blood Elves used it, it can replace alot of problems you might of faced, and be benefitial.

    Void Magic, has a guarenteed chance to corrupt you if you aren't prepared. And takes ALOT OF STUDY AND PRACTICE just to have a chance to not be corrupted by it. And even then, your magic has a chance to corrupt things around you, no matter how well you've trained yourself. Just look at Aleria and the Sunwell. She neraly destroyed it and doomed Azeroth just by being near it.

    So no, the Sin'dorei aren't being terribly hypocritical. The Alliance are fooling themselves if they think the Void Elves aren't a threat to them, and Azeroth proper. Short term they got it. Long term, world is doomed.
    Grom and the orcs would like to have a word with you. But then again, orcs have proven time and again to be weak willed so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    People who claim the playable Blood Elves sucked on fel should stfu because they prove they don't know anything about the lore they try to shit on. They never did, as has been stated in the past by Blizzard themselves. And the green eyes have also been explained to be from radiation because a FEW Blood Elves like Rommath used it to rebuild Silvermoon (without the average Blood Elf knowing).

    And even if they did, while using Fel would have been a desperate necessity for survival, that necessity doesn't exist now. It's a difference if people resort to cannibalism during times of great struggle and have no other means to survive or if they do it while living in security and not the slightest danger of starving.

    Also, most of the hate comes from Alliance people that after ~13 years are still butthurt that Blood Elves are on the Horde. If they were Alliance and exiled the Void Elves who then would have joined the Horde they'd be totally justified and Void Elves would have been the lowest of scum ever.
    Oh they knew alright. Were even taught and encouraged to suck the life out of creatures, some of which were radiated from the fel crystals as well. I agree they didn't suck on straight fel, maybe some did, but they aren't innocent in this by a long shot. They are a very selfish race like all elves in WoW. And no I don't care that blood elves went to the horde, even if it was literally only because of Asian girls.
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
    ― Ronald Regan

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    The actress who player her just died recently. The original movie with Gene Wilder, that is.
    Come again? The actress who played who?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Come again? The actress who played who?
    Violet Beauregarde's actress, Denise Nickerson. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-48947783

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