What is a "normal" Orc actually like - and can orcs be at peave with anyone?

[George Lucas]

They're based on stereotypes of specific races. Elves have generally been based on asians, humans on euro-whites (sometimes the english are included), orcs on blacks, dwarves on scotts, gnomes on english (somtimes the irish), etc. Same in Tolkien, same in Startrek, etc.

Nope, not the same "in Tolkien" and also not the case with some of the Warcraft stuff you listed. Orcs have nothing in common with blacks, they are generic Eurasian nomads. Elves are also in no way based on Asians. One building type in Darnassus looks a bit like a Japanese pagoda, that's it. Elves are from Germanic mythology and more specific Warcraft Elves are at this point just Warhammer Elves without the cool stuff. Gnomes are also not based on any specific culture. They are a race that is just based around a profession. Humans are not based on euro-whites, they are generic medieval fantasy humans with western modern day morals.
I will refrain from going more off topic and talking about Tolkien, but holy shit, you are so wrong.

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

Orcs were never at peace, they always fought someone or even their own kind over resources.

Sounds like America.

[Sevyvia]

Nah, orcs are naturally insane, violent bullies, which is why they need the power of plot behind them to still be alive.

A culture like theirs (as we are shown it) makes no sense. Either they have a massive amount of slaves and can afford to focus on conflict the way they do, or they die out, or they reform their culture. None of these are true, yet they're still around, because Blizzard wants them to be the special-cool tribal noble (forget about the repeated genocide) savages that they very much are not.

[George Lucas]

With elves I'm specifically talking about high elves/void elves. NE are closer to the north eastern native americans while tauren are based on south western native americans. I'm also not going to go into depth on how close they are and how they're actually based on it because people will call me racist. Just do the research yourself.

And what is Asian about High and Void Elves? High Elves are just a uninspired LotR copy. And LotR Elves are based on Germanic mythology.
Night Elves draw culturally the most from Graeco-Roman culture (pre-sundering) and then from Celtic pagans and more general hunter-gatherer animism (Druids), Amazones as described by the greek (warrior women) and finally the pre-indo-european cult of the great godess (Magna Mater/Kybele/Gaia/...). But, the thing is that I doubt that the Warcraft authors even know where most of the stereotypes they use come from.

[StationaryHawk]

Nah, orcs are naturally insane, violent bullies, which is why they need the power of plot behind them to still be alive.

A culture like theirs (as we are shown it) makes no sense. Either they have a massive amount of slaves and can afford to focus on conflict the way they do, or they die out, or they reform their culture. None of these are true, yet they're still around, because Blizzard wants them to be the special-cool tribal noble (forget about the repeated genocide) savages that they very much are not.

Seems to me that this is what peons are for? Their entire purpose is manual labour.

[Kathranis]

Elves have generally been based on asians

Try Nordic and a little Korean. Also slight hints of Greco-Roman, Medieval European, and Arabian, esp. in their architecture.

orcs on blacks

Try Mongolian and Japanese. There is virtually nothing specifically African about orcish culture.

[Venziir]

Durotan remained peaceful. They just ruined Grom. Blackhand and Bladefist were always known to be major dicks.

Prior to WoD, Bladefist was described as a savage warrior, but still an honorable hero and proud orc.

[Wilian]

The orcs didn't really become dicks until after they drank the green Kool-Aid.

Except the orcs had razed pretty much everything draenei related except Shattrath before drinking the green Kool-Aid. They drank it after razing the draenei capitol of Karabor.

[Syegfryed]

Try Nordic and a little Korean. Also slight hints of Greco-Roman, Medieval European, and Arabian, esp. in their architecture.

wait what? what nordic aspects elves have? some of the "viking" or nord theme can sure be put under orcs with their honor and die in battle thing.

Except the orcs had razed pretty much everything draenei related except Shattrath before drinking the green Kool-Aid. They drank it after razing the draenei capitol of Karabor.

they were already under corruption by fel energies and were tricked to go to war by their elders

[Wilian]

they were already under corruption by fel energies and were tricked to go to war by their elders

Irrelevant, he said they did it because of the green kool aid. They had done it long before the green kool aid. You have no point to make here.

[Zuben]

Sounds a lot like human tribalism before diplomacy/mutually-assured-destruction mellowed things down. Orcs can cope.

[Syegfryed]

Irrelevant, he said they did it because of the green kool aid. They had done it long before the green kool aid. You have no point to make here.

he is right though, they weren't dicks, they were just fighting a war, after the blood they went batshit crazy

[Wilian]

he is right though, they weren't dicks, they were just fighting a war, after the blood they went batshit crazy

No. They were pretty batshit crazy and practiced genocide. And its obvious he meant the entire matter not just the crazy bit. I dont even understand why you are trying to comment here to me, you started off the topic from getgo

[Syegfryed]

No. They were pretty batshit crazy and practiced genocide.

it was a war, killing is something natural, is not more evil than other races going to war, its not "being a dick", only after the blood they went into frenzy killing.

[Stormbreed]

Their history is full of clans fighting each other, constantly war focused, even before the corruption... I am looking for examples where orcs have actually been okay with living in peace with anyone over a prolonged period.. I haven't found it yet.

So I look to their lore, in the time before the legion that was described, and even then you would have clans having feuds and it was actually culturally encouraged.

You're not evil attacking a clan for food and water, and in arguments or disputes, the winner is resolved through a good fight.

I mean can a race like this ever live in peace with others?

When war is all you know, killing is as easy as breathing....

[Mace]

When war is all you know, killing is as easy as breathing....

That's almost poetic... and a PM air of tragique to it.

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They were historically more peaceful than Night Elves, Mace.

Didnt Lord of the clans point out the clans frequently fought each other, and ogres, they didnt have beef with the Draenei though, until kil'jaeden manipulated them

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P,s. Thanks for bumping my topic, I noticed elf topics easily garner myriad of responses, i stopped posting about other things partly because no one is interested most of the times, so the only things I post about these days that I like and gain responses are elves.. nice to see this one picking up

[Kathranis]

wait what? what nordic aspects elves have? some of the "viking" or nord theme can sure be put under orcs with their honor and die in battle thing.

They're a hodge-podge, but elves are originally from Norse mythology, which Tolkien drew heavily on, and it's thus inherited by the elves in WoW, mainly the night elves. In particular, the World Trees are inspired by Yggdrasil. There are minor elements incorporated into their architecture, too, such as their longships and longhouse; though obviously not as overt as the vrykul, the basic structure is there.

There's nothing particularly Nordic about the orcs. In WC1-2 they drew heavily from the Mongol horde, and in WC3 and beyond, elements of feudal Japanese culture were also incorporated (stemming no doubt from the team's oft-professed love of Samurai Shodown 2). Naturally they also drew upon Tolkien, Warhammer, D&D, and so forth. But the Mongol and Japanese influences are sort of the unique Warcraft stamp on orcs.

[Wilian]

it was a war, killing is something natural, is not more evil than other races going to war, its not "being a dick", only after the blood they went into frenzy killing.

Dude you're just typing a lot with no reason at all, I don't still know what you're trying to say. The dude I quoted said the green kool aid made them do it, I explained it did not and they made most of it before the green kool aid. All you're doing is speaking irrelevant shit. You got super defensive over a fact and now try to just desperately say something to appear right. Just stop it.

[Syegfryed]

Dude you're just typing a lot with no reason at all, I don't still know what you're trying to say. The dude I quoted said the green kool aid made them do it, I explained it did not and they made most of it before the green kool aid.

he said the green kool aid made then dicks, and that is true, only after the blood they became corrupted and bind to the demons will, before was just normal war

All you're doing is speaking irrelevant shit. You got super defensive over a fact and now try to just desperately say something to appear right. Just stop it.

you are very aggressive or mad by something, are you ok?

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They're a hodge-podge, but elves are originally from Norse mythology, which Tolkien drew heavily on, and it's thus inherited by the elves in WoW, mainly the night elves. In particular, the World Trees are inspired by Yggdrasil. There are minor elements incorporated into their architecture, too, such as their longships and longhouse; though obviously not as overt as the vrykul, the basic structure is there.

i mean coming from Norse mythology don't rly matter, Norse elves were totally different from the tolkien archetype in everything, sure the world tree is inspired in the ygdrassil but its just that, they even treat the tree different

There's nothing particularly Nordic about the orcs. In WC1-2 they drew heavily from the Mongol horde, and in WC3 and beyond, elements of feudal Japanese culture were also incorporated (stemming no doubt from the team's oft-professed love of Samurai Shodown 2). Naturally they also drew upon Tolkien, Warhammer, D&D, and so forth. But the Mongol and Japanese influences are sort of the unique Warcraft stamp on orcs.

sure mongol and japanese are the primal ones, but clans like frostwolf have some hints about nordic yes, the thing of dying in combat, honoring the ancestors, the warsong is way more like the norse warriors than samurais by example.

shamanism is also related with then, Odin was basically a shaman or portrayed as one

[ophion1990]

Until WoD retconned that.

How did WoD retcon that? Garrosh went through great lengths to convince Grom of what the future held for the orcish race. As far as Grom knew, his people would be betrayed by the Draenei, they'd be enslaved by the Legion and they'd starve out in internment camps.

OT: Does anyone know? I think orc behaviour is kinda like troll regeneration, it changes when the writers want it to do so. Pretty sure they're still described as "peaceful" in the character creation screen. Yet war is incredibly easy to sell to them...