LFG addon is not a bad idea.

[Kaver]

You really DO have issues with controlling how other people act, don't you? WoW!




It's funny, because options 2 and 3 have UI elements to help keep them organized.

And Blizzard doesn't want 1 to be inconvenient. They're catering to Nosalgia due to the demand of the private server players, and those people who may have jumped on the purist bandwagon.

Make no mistake, the lack of a group-management UI isn't because it's better for the game. It's literally just to promote nostalgia. Blizzard even said this in their official post, pointing out how they would have kept the modern Premade Group Finder interface!

[bluepost]we intend to be very careful about allowing add-on functionality that might undermine aspects of the social dynamics that are core to the Classic experience, even in cases like this where it’s clear that the addon author had no ill intent and was simply trying to provide a service to the Classic community. Ultimately, if a streamlined group-finding system was something we considered compatible with Classic, we would have kept the modern Premade Group Finder tool rather than choosing to remove it from the Classic client[/bluepost]

When they talk about it being "compatible with Classic", they're referring to preserving the nostalgic experience. And I hate to break it to you, but nostalgia is an extremely limited resource. And what I find most interesting is that later on down the road in the patch history of vanilla, Blizzard made several attempts to shore up the weakness of finding groups: The meeting stones, and the group functionality of the innkeepers. They simply didn't have the technology or the design experience to do it right.

Now they do.

You're fighting for something that WILL die off sooner or later. Enjoy your purist idiocy while it lasts, I guess.

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Thank you!

I'm only aksing you to be civil like everybody should be.


"undermine aspects of the social dynamics"

They say it there. A LFG tool will undermine the social dynamics of classic.

Making it easy to group up with strangers will be a huge issue for the game. It will reduce the need of building a friends list and making effort with your guild. If you can easily group up with strangers, there is no practical reason of interacting socially with people outside of dungeons. It's very simple.

In relation to the 3 options:

1) Ask strangers

2) Ask people on your friend list

3) Ask people from your guild

Option 2 and 3 have interfaces because they are very important for the social dynamics of the game. Making it convenient to play with strangers is not good. Making it easy for people to choose stranger everytime they they make or join a group is not good. Playing with strangers should be inconvenient so you are required to built a good friendlist and interact with your guild.

PS. I never called anybody autistic. @NoiseTank13 is trolling. I don't do petty name-calling. I respect the fact that everybody don't share my opinion.

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How many times have I pointed out that a group-listing tool WOULD STILL REQUIRE YOU TO TALK TO THE GROUP!?

People need to socialize outside of dungeon groups. Talking about tactic inside a dungeon is not being social. If they have a LFG tool to group up with strangers everytime they need to do a dungeon then they don't need to socialize outside of dungeons.

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Nevermind, we're done here. It's obvious that you're blatantly wrong, but don't want to admit it.

Fair enough. Some people don't want to broaden their horizon.

[Fragulrock]

So I see all the "don't ruin our classic experience"

All of these quality of life things were added due to people downloading add ons....

Classic still has add ons, so if the majority of people playing classic download the add on's then why not just add that qol into the game?

Watch any of the main streamers not one of them is using the basic UI.

Hell I tried to use the normal UI, and when I hit 20 I gave up and grabbed some add on's myself (I'm vanilla I got to 58 with no add ons but I was young and naive)

QOL doesn't ruin classic, its the talent trees, difficulty, the grind, and all of that other good stuff that makes it classic.

Throwing in a better quest tracker won't kill it, hell even LFG wouldn't ruin it. They can still make it a requirement to walk to the dungeons but to be automatically put in a party would save a lot of time.

[Qnubi]

Yes, because pestering every single person who's playing a warrior, tank spec or not, is MUCH better and more healthy of a social interaction than actually creating better social tools(like an actual group-management UI) so that people with similar interests can more easily find each other.

You can mix it up with Druids and Paladins, it doesn't have to be a warrior tank every day, so basically you only "pester" (although, I don't know why asking is a bad thing, must be this "anti-social" thing some people suffer from) the same class every 3rd day. How about that?

Today I even didn't respond to a whisper message, I am still alive, crazy!

Oh btw, I am a tank, this is my advise to all the DPS suffering to find a tank, just ask!

[Beet]

The LFG addon for new players that have started 1 year later after Classic launch is not a bad idea.

I speak from my own personal experience. I have started playing WoW mid TBC and the experience was horrible even at high pop realm.
The point is, it was WAY WAY harder and time consuming to find lowbies, because everyone was level 70 and raiding, this will eventually happen in classic.

At launch, WoW Classic experience will be really easy for you, because everyone is levelling and everyone will be willing to party up without wasting time to complete the content. Fast-forward 1 year later, this will be waay harder for new players, so and LFG system that can be used DURING LEVELING ONLY, is not a bad idea 1 year later from now.

Little hypocrisy within the WoW Classic community ; "Disable LFG, but allow Quest helper" which these are on the same tier. They both help you with levelling.

I played in vanilla from day one. What you speak didnt happen. Always had people doing 5 mans even 2 years out.

[Aggrophobic]

I perfectly understand the situation. And I presented you a solution.

Besides, classic is not a game for alts. If you want to progress your main, you are not going to have time for an alt.

Look, it is over. Retail crybabies have lost. You will not ruin our experience. Go back to BfA if you want QoL.

Stop harassing our experience. We want true vanilla experience and not something that it will kinda look like it.

Haha. Classic is not the same as vanilla and the expereince is not the same. Do not fool yourself.

[Adrianoz]

I perfectly understand the situation. And I presented you a solution.

Besides, classic is not a game for alts. If you want to progress your main, you are not going to have time for an alt.

Look, it is over. Retail crybabies have lost. You will not ruin our experience. Go back to BfA if you want QoL.

Stop harassing our experience. We want true vanilla experience and not something that it will kinda look like it.

Who is we? Are you an elected official?

I play classic, played vanilla, and I disagree, hence you should go back to private servers.

[bmjclark]

Honestly, having used the LFG addon and also just spammed in world chat for a group, I can say both bring me exactly the same amount of social interaction (zero).

[Azerate]

Yeah. The LFG chat is basically the same, with the difference that you have to spam your announcement all the time, which people usually macro to quickly post. It's a small quality of life change.

I think people confuse "lfg addons" with automatic LFG queuing systems, or something.

[Apexis]

Look, it is over. Retail crybabies have lost. You will not ruin our experience. Go back to BfA if you want QoL.

Stop harassing our experience. We want true vanilla experience and not something that it will kinda look like it.

From what I have been reading both here and on the WoW forums, Classic people are doing enough on their own to ruin their own experience and do not require any help in doing so.

Also you are not getting the true Vanilla experience, you are being given a rendition of that experience, which people have proven over the past week that is nothing like the true experience. No one plowed through to a point where two raid bosses simply fell over by a group of people that were not all level 60 when entering either raid content. At this point, Rag and Ony might as well been in LFR mode given how fast they went down. Practice for years or not, this is not Vanilla.

I remember leveling and I remember well the limitations from everything from my own computer to Blizzards own server and design limitations. Given this rendition of Vanilla, it is very obvious that tediousness was used as a means of force cooperation while leveling. Had there not been the necessity to level a weapon and talents initially. There would have been less cooperation and friendliness, not more, which has taken place in retail since at least BC.

Vanilla community was not organic, it was forced and manufactured by limitations of the time across the board. Classic proves this much and it has not been out a week. What people thought they had was not what they really had. Course that got the community through until the end of Wrath then fully imploded on itself at the beginning of Cata.

[Drusin]

Have you guys seen what LFG chat looks like on your realm? Side note: /join LookingForGroup. The shit is a constant spam fest. Imagine if all the gold sellers, carry sellers, trolls on your retail realms trade chat were actually looking for groups and that's how spammy LFG chat is on classic. Imagine if dungeon finder didn't exist lol /2 and /4 on retail would be refuckingtarded.

[korijenkins]

The addon that literally helps you with questing, the addon that gives you markers in the map and saves when you mined copper mine, what is the different between a pure LFG channel in WoW and a LFG interface??? I mean I don't understand the backlash

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Thats not a solution. That's your "Don't like it, tough luck" mindset. The SOLUTION to my thread post, is to allow LFG type features after 1 year of Classic launch.

Quest helper helps you with quests
Gatherer helps you with nodes the mini map and saves them for you to farm in the future
LFG tool after 1 year will help new players find dungeon grps, when you will be spamming raids and having a blast at lvl 60, not caring about the lowbies. GG.

Why is quest helper needed? Because you're unskilled and can't solo difficult quests? Because you're anti-social and don't want to group with strangers? Maybe YOU are the problem in this equation.

[SirCowdog]

I'm only aksing you to be civil like everybody should be.

You need to travel more. As in real life. Everyone doesn't need to be how you expect or want them to be. Either that or you need to spend more time on the internet. Because if you think the way I'm posting is harsh, you haven't seen anything. All I'm doing is disagreeing with you and adding a little bit of snark. You've never seen angry or uncivil if you think I'm out of line.

"undermine aspects of the social dynamics"

They say it there. A LFG tool will undermine the social dynamics of classic.

Taking something out of context in order to fit your narrative isn't doing you any favors. The actual quote is:

"we intend to be very careful about allowing add-on functionality that might undermine aspects of the social dynamics that are core to the Classic experience"

That MIGHT undermine the aspects that are core to the Classic experience. What they're afraid of is hurting the nostalgia while the game is still establishing itself. The funniest part about that statement, however, is that Blizzard themselves have already changed the game in fundamental ways AWAY from the "Classic Experience". They've already deviated from the purist vision of Vanilla. This line of bullshit about the social dynamics of classic have already been fundamentally altered.

Making it convenient to play with strangers is not good. Making it easy for people to choose stranger everytime they they make or join a group is not good. Playing with strangers should be inconvenient so you are required to built a good friendlist and interact with your guild.

Every time you post you just make yourself look more and more stupid. Just stop. What's important is the community and health of the entire server, not just individual lists of friends or guild members.

You're so stuck on this idea that the ONLY way to have a community is via spamming trade chat and limiting the scope to just guilds/friends. You're talking directly out of your ass, and you're so prideful about it that you can't admit you're wrong, or even change your point of view. You'd rather continue making a fool out of yourself.

At this point I question whether you ever actually played Vanilla at all, or if you're even playing Classic right now. Everything you say makes no sense. You just created an idea out of thin air, then made up bad logic to support it. Nothing you've said is based in reality.

People need to socialize outside of dungeon groups. Talking about tactic inside a dungeon is not being social. If they have a LFG tool to group up with strangers everytime they need to do a dungeon then they don't need to socialize outside of dungeons.

Talking to people, regardless of setting, is being social. Maybe it only starts with tactics, but depending on if the run goes well or not, maybe you get added to the precious friend list you're so fond of bringing up. Maybe you get invited to a guild. Maybe you get a /whisper the next time that group wants to do something.

You keep creating these bullshit scenarios and made-up explanations to support your bad logic. Just stop already. I will have more respect for you if you admit your fault and take a more objective stance.

Fair enough. Some people don't want to broaden their horizon.

You're such a massive hypocrite! You talk about broadening horizons while simultaneously advocating for a super-narrow, purist view of WoW Classic that doesn't allow for ANY change!

Talk about cognitive dissonance. JEEEsus!

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You can mix it up with Druids and Paladins, it doesn't have to be a warrior tank every day, so basically you only "pester" (although, I don't know why asking is a bad thing, must be this "anti-social" thing some people suffer from) the same class every 3rd day. How about that?

Today I even didn't respond to a whisper message, I am still alive, crazy!

Oh btw, I am a tank, this is my advise to all the DPS suffering to find a tank, just ask!

The point is not that groups can not be found, or that I personally have any issues doing so. The discussion is about the social dynamics of the entire game, on a server-wide level, and how a Group-Finding or Group-Management UI would effect that dynamic.

The opposition claims that anything other than spamming a macro into a global channel would fundamentally harm the social dynamic of the "Classic Experience", based primarily on a handful of deeply flawed premises:

1) Because Blizzard said so(because they're never wrong, amirite?)
2) Slippery Slope arguments about a LFG tool leading to instant teleports and/or auto-matchmaking, the ruination of WPVP, the destruction of the economy, cross server tech, and apparently creating lazy and/or anti-social people.

The logic behind these points of view result in powerful arguments such as:

GTFO if you don't like it.
This game isn't for you.
You're lazy.
Go play retail.

Whereas those of us who want a better UI to sort through the macro-spam of trade chat just want to be able to better find groups so we can actually play the game and more effectively find players with similar goals or interests. You know, enjoying the game and being social instead of hating and telling people to leave the game or being super elitist/exclusionary because other people aren't playing the game how we think they should.

In closing: It's not that spamming a global channel doesn't work. Clearly it does. It's that spamming a global channel is an EXTREMELY ineffective tool for finding groups, and doesn't actually contain the traits or benefits to the social dynamic that Purists claim it does. Even if it did have those benefits, it wouldn't be the ONLY source of social interaction, or the sole distributer of such benefits.

The premade group finder from retail serves the same function, but in a cleaner, more-effective and efficient manner. It does not allow for instant teleports to the group. It doesn't automatically form the group. It doesn't have ANY barriers to communication with the group or other players. It's just a modern UI version of listing groups.

The ONLY harm it would do is to a nostalgia-fueled vision of what Vanilla was supposed to have been, but doesn't actually exists because Blizzard has ALREADY deviated from it.

[Underverse]

Disable quest helper and LFG. I've had to look up one quest so far and I'm level 20, not using quest helper. It's really not that hard. It's also not hard, at all, to find groups. I'm not playing with any friends who are even close to my level and I haven't encountered a single obstacle finding a group. These 'small' QoL changes detract quite a bit from the game.

[Inuyaki]

Yeah. The LFG chat is basically the same, with the difference that you have to spam your announcement all the time, which people usually macro to quickly post. It's a small quality of life change.

I think people confuse "lfg addons" with automatic LFG queuing systems, or something.

This!

Also no one wants crossrealm and dungeonports, those 2 functionalities destroyed "the social aspect" (tbf you could be pretty anti social before too)

Why is it so hard to have a pin board like tool, where people can set their status to lfg and other people can whisper them then. Why is it different if you sent a whisper to a person on that board instead of a person that spammed the trade chat? It is most likely even more social, because you get more whispers and stuff...


Edit
Also on Elysium there are such things for years...
https://forum.elysium-project.org/to...r-for-vanilla/
Private server players seem to have no problem with them
(I actually don't know how much it is used, I just find it interesting that it seems to be fine there, but somehow it would "destroy" Classic)

[Qnubi]

The point is not that groups can not be found, or that I personally have any issues doing so. The discussion is about the social dynamics of the entire game, on a server-wide level, and how a Group-Finding or Group-Management UI would effect that dynamic.

The opposition claims that anything other than spamming a macro into a global channel would fundamentally harm the social dynamic of the "Classic Experience", based primarily on a handful of deeply flawed premises:

1) Because Blizzard said so(because they're never wrong, amirite?)
2) Slippery Slope arguments about a LFG tool leading to instant teleports and/or auto-matchmaking, the ruination of WPVP, the destruction of the economy, cross server tech, and apparently creating lazy and/or anti-social people.

The logic behind these points of view result in powerful arguments such as:

GTFO if you don't like it.
This game isn't for you.
You're lazy.
Go play retail.

Whereas those of us who want a better UI to sort through the macro-spam of trade chat just want to be able to better find groups so we can actually play the game and more effectively find players with similar goals or interests. You know, enjoying the game and being social instead of hating and telling people to leave the game or being super elitist/exclusionary because other people aren't playing the game how we think they should.

In closing: It's not that spamming a global channel doesn't work. Clearly it does. It's that spamming a global channel is an EXTREMELY ineffective tool for finding groups, and doesn't actually contain the traits or benefits to the social dynamic that Purists claim it does. Even if it did have those benefits, it wouldn't be the ONLY source of social interaction, or the sole distributer of such benefits.

The premade group finder from retail serves the same function, but in a cleaner, more-effective and efficient manner. It does not allow for instant teleports to the group. It doesn't automatically form the group. It doesn't have ANY barriers to communication with the group or other players. It's just a modern UI version of listing groups.

The ONLY harm it would do is to a nostalgia-fueled vision of what Vanilla was supposed to have been, but doesn't actually exists because Blizzard has ALREADY deviated from it.

How is finding a group within minutes not efficient? So clearly my method works pretty good. (I don't spam trade or other chat channels, at all) You might end up angering SOME players, but who cares there are hundreds of tanks per server. And DPS warriors are literally meaningless, you could have them all hate you and nothing changes for you, you don't need them, at all. If 10% of the tanks get mad at you and put you on ignore you still have 90% that will happily tank a dungeon for you. Afterwards you put them on your friend-list and you slowly build up an efficient list of buddies to play with. My tank gets whispers daily by people I have played with and I either accept or decline their offer to tank for them. And my mage has like 10+ tanks by now that I can ask for a run, if none of them is available I go back to the good old /who method and find a tank within a couple minutes and add to my list if I was happy with their performance. Have you actually tried it yet?

My point is:
1. Don't be afraid to message players. It's the most efficient way to participate in group activities.
2. The player-base is gigantic you are bound to anger some. You don't want to play with very sensitive players that get mad at something meaningless as whispers anyway. Imagine what happens when you wipe with such a sensitive player. Avoid at all costs!

[LedZeppelin]

Work on your social skills friend

[Kaver]

You need to travel more. As in real life. Everyone doesn't need to be how you expect or want them to be. Either that or you need to spend more time on the internet. Because if you think the way I'm posting is harsh, you haven't seen anything. All I'm doing is disagreeing with you and adding a little bit of snark. You've never seen angry or uncivil if you think I'm out of line.





Taking something out of context in order to fit your narrative isn't doing you any favors. The actual quote is:

"we intend to be very careful about allowing add-on functionality that might undermine aspects of the social dynamics that are core to the Classic experience"

That MIGHT undermine the aspects that are core to the Classic experience. What they're afraid of is hurting the nostalgia while the game is still establishing itself. The funniest part about that statement, however, is that Blizzard themselves have already changed the game in fundamental ways AWAY from the "Classic Experience". They've already deviated from the purist vision of Vanilla. This line of bullshit about the social dynamics of classic have already been fundamentally altered.






Every time you post you just make yourself look more and more stupid. Just stop. What's important is the community and health of the entire server, not just individual lists of friends or guild members.

You're so stuck on this idea that the ONLY way to have a community is via spamming trade chat and limiting the scope to just guilds/friends. You're talking directly out of your ass, and you're so prideful about it that you can't admit you're wrong, or even change your point of view. You'd rather continue making a fool out of yourself.

At this point I question whether you ever actually played Vanilla at all, or if you're even playing Classic right now. Everything you say makes no sense. You just created an idea out of thin air, then made up bad logic to support it. Nothing you've said is based in reality.




Talking to people, regardless of setting, is being social. Maybe it only starts with tactics, but depending on if the run goes well or not, maybe you get added to the precious friend list you're so fond of bringing up. Maybe you get invited to a guild. Maybe you get a /whisper the next time that group wants to do something.

You keep creating these bullshit scenarios and made-up explanations to support your bad logic. Just stop already. I will have more respect for you if you admit your fault and take a more objective stance.





You're such a massive hypocrite! You talk about broadening horizons while simultaneously advocating for a super-narrow, purist view of WoW Classic that doesn't allow for ANY change!

Talk about cognitive dissonance. JEEEsus!

First of all: You need to calm down. This is not about me. You’re letting your emotions take over. Also I thought you were done with this conversation? Apparently you’re a liar. Well, I forgive you.

Now the whole thing is extremely simple because it is about social structure:

1) Blizzard said they don’t want addons that undermine social dynamics. LFG does that.

2) Talking tactics inside a dungeons is not the only social behavior that Classic need. We also need to communicate outside of dungeons and NOT only in the context of making group.

3) Having a friend list and guild is NOT about excluding yourself. It’s about how you make that friend list and build bonds in your guild. You do that by going out into the world and talk to people.

4) People seem to think a LFG tool is okay as long as it doesn’t have auto-queue and teleport. Well, it is not. The problem with LFG is that it allows you to easily group up with strangers and when you’re allowed to do that you’re not required to talk with people outside of dungeons. This is really bad for a MMORPG.

5) You’re not meant to spam trade chat. People who does that are making the game harder for themselves. You’re meant to be a completely normal person and TALK to people in general. Not ONLY when you need a dungeon group.

In general people don’t understand that a MMORPG like Classic lives on social interactions. It’s not enough to communicate with other people only when you need a group or are inside a dungeon. When playing Classic you need to communicate in general and build relations to other players. That’s how the game is designed. It’s very simple. It’s a World. Talk to people instead of hidding behind some grouping tool. And STOP spamming trade chat.

[Drpizka]

Who is we? Are you an elected official?

I play classic, played vanilla, and I disagree, hence you should go back to private servers.

Yeah I am.

Go back to retal, your garrison missions are ready.

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From what I have been reading both here and on the WoW forums, Classic people are doing enough on their own to ruin their own experience and do not require any help in doing so.

Also you are not getting the true Vanilla experience, you are being given a rendition of that experience, which people have proven over the past week that is nothing like the true experience. No one plowed through to a point where two raid bosses simply fell over by a group of people that were not all level 60 when entering either raid content. At this point, Rag and Ony might as well been in LFR mode given how fast they went down. Practice for years or not, this is not Vanilla.

I remember leveling and I remember well the limitations from everything from my own computer to Blizzards own server and design limitations. Given this rendition of Vanilla, it is very obvious that tediousness was used as a means of force cooperation while leveling. Had there not been the necessity to level a weapon and talents initially. There would have been less cooperation and friendliness, not more, which has taken place in retail since at least BC.

Vanilla community was not organic, it was forced and manufactured by limitations of the time across the board. Classic proves this much and it has not been out a week. What people thought they had was not what they really had. Course that got the community through until the end of Wrath then fully imploded on itself at the beginning of Cata.

I actually have a vanilla experience. I do not care if somebody rushed to clear raids within a week, I take my time and enjoy doing the quests and dungeons.

And do not forget that this is not a new game; people have been playing it for years, they know what they are doing. Back then we didn't have a clue.

Any classic game can be speedrunned nowadays.

I don't know what you mean with the community. I had plenty of friendly random encounters and people are generally eager to create groups even for non-elite quests.

[kyoloco]

it is not a bad idea

but that wouldnt be classic

what you are looking for are pristine servers

something blizz suggested and no one took seriously

[Wingspan]

I did, because i was forced to.

Some people will obediently roll over in a new situation pretty quickly (and more power to you if you are that type) but most people will eventually feel constrained and resentful when they realize they are forced into something.

A major flaw in a lot of gaming design is “forcing” people to do things for entertainment. If you have to force them, then it’s not really entertainment.

If you come into the game wanting the social aspect, then it’s not forced... if you only do it because you were forced, then it isn’t going to end well.