If implemented, could the Tinker class be WoW's first Ranged Tank?

[Nynax]

Yeah, I could see Blizzard pulling a Mistweaver and take an interesting, unique concept and just make it like the other specs that have a similar role because they can't balance it.

However, even if the experiment fails, I'll be very interested to see Blizzard try it. They did flirt with the idea with Warlocks and Dark Apotheosis.

You never know...they admitted they went too far with pruning and homogenization. Maybe, just maybe, next expansion will bring back more of the "different classes/specs are good at different things."

^
To which the community will likely respond with "lol, nah. we only want the BEST classes at these few things." and we will go right back to where we started.

[Lanfall]

I’m thinking like the Bounty Hunter and Trooper tanks from SWTOR.

They aren't ranged tanks either. Maybe the initial shot but after that they are melee'd.

[Ielenia]

Would a tank operating outside of 5 yds but within 10yds work with WoW's raid mechanics, or would it be too OP?

It wouldn't. Because even if this tank had a 10-yard radius attack, the boss would just move up the rest of the way to breach the gap back to melee range. Then we have the whole "tank stacking routine" as the other tank won't be able to stack with the "ranged" tank unless it's a ranged tank as well.

Then there is the whole "ranged mechanics" some bosses do that would be another thing for the ranged tank to be mindful of.

[Kyphael]

I've personally always wanted a mage tank, even if Tinker probably wouldn't fit the mage mesh very well. Dark Apotheosis as a demo lock was a blast to tank with and felt really good, if weak.

I would love a Battle-Mage tank that focuses on kiting, freezing and blowing enemies back with a full on frost armor effect.

As for the Tinker, I'm still not sold, not even on concepts because I don't know how cool Blizzard can make it. I still keep imagining they'll just turn engineering shit into abilities which isn't very interesting, just optimize engineering so the shit they make is actually useful in combat and people can make any class a "tinker" and give us Necromancer or Bard.

[Kumorii]

Not if the tank has a dummy up to make the boss run to the dummy instead of the tank. This would keep the tank safe and allow it to blast away while the boss wails on the dummy.

I tank who ignores tank mechanics and can go full blown dps without any risk of dying...?

[Teriz]

They aren't ranged tanks either. Maybe the initial shot but after that they are melee'd.

Well technically they are, since their primary attacks exceed 5yds. additionally, players really enjoyed playing as them because they felt different than the melee tanks in the game.

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I would love a Battle-Mage tank that focuses on kiting, freezing and blowing enemies back with a full on frost armor effect.

As for the Tinker, I'm still not sold, not even on concepts because I don't know how cool Blizzard can make it. I still keep imagining they'll just turn engineering shit into abilities which isn't very interesting, just optimize engineering so the shit they make is actually useful in combat and people can make any class a "tinker" and give us Necromancer or Bard.

Actually Tinkers have unique abilities from their MOBA base (WC3 and HotS) that aren't found in engineering.

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You never know...they admitted they went too far with pruning and homogenization. Maybe, just maybe, next expansion will bring back more of the "different classes/specs are good at different things."

^
To which the community will likely respond with "lol, nah. we only want the BEST classes at these few things." and we will go right back to where we started.

Yep, the community is never satisfied. I'm still sad about Fistweaver never getting balanced and becoming a thing.

[ro9ue]

Given the abilities shown by the Island Expedition "Tinkers" I noticed that the "tank" characters had almost entirely ranged abilities that averaged about 10 yds. Given the fact that both of these characters (Razek and Gazlowe) were piloting mechs, it got me thinking that maybe Blizzard is attempting to emulate SWTOR's ranged tanks like the Powertech or the Vanguard who fought outside of melee range.

That would be an interesting development, and would make the Tinker a very different type of tank than the tanking specs in the existing classes.

Would a tank operating outside of 5 yds but within 10yds work with WoW's raid mechanics, or would it be too OP?

I think the obvious Tinker tank is something like a mech suit, but a possibility for a ranged tank could be something like you are operating a remote robot that's doing the tanking for you. Maybe you lob in some grenades and rockets, but the bot is taking the hits. The player could also have a kit that is essentially a mini healer or damage prevention - your bot is tanking but you're sending in drones to repair it.

I'm picturing something like Rexxar in HotS but more complex abilities.

[Teriz]

It wouldn't. Because even if this tank had a 10-yard radius attack, the boss would just move up the rest of the way to breach the gap back to melee range. Then we have the whole "tank stacking routine" as the other tank won't be able to stack with the "ranged" tank unless it's a ranged tank as well.

Then there is the whole "ranged mechanics" some bosses do that would be another thing for the ranged tank to be mindful of.

I don't think the boss closing the distance on the ranged tank changes the definition of what it is though.

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I tank who ignores tank mechanics and can go full blown dps without any risk of dying...?

Keep in mind, I'm just putting up the "drone/pet/dummy" tanking concept as a way to achieve "true" ranged tanking. In that concept I always believed that there should be a type of feedback loop that damages the actual tank as the dummy takes the damage. Also since the true tank in this concept would be ranged, they would more than likely have less armor than a melee tank, and be at a very real risk of dying if they don't use their damage mitigation skills.

But I digress, I think following the SWOTR model of a faux ranged tank is the better way to go, and the IE Tinker abilities back that up.

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I think the obvious Tinker tank is something like a mech suit, but a possibility for a ranged tank could be something like you are operating a remote robot that's doing the tanking for you. Maybe you lob in some grenades and rockets, but the bot is taking the hits. The player could also have a kit that is essentially a mini healer or damage prevention - your bot is tanking but you're sending in drones to repair it.

I'm picturing something like Rexxar in HotS but more complex abilities.

Yeah, exactly what I picture as well.

However, I think something like that would be a bit too complex to play and balance.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think the obvious Tinker tank is something like a mech suit, but a possibility for a ranged tank could be something like you are operating a remote robot that's doing the tanking for you. Maybe you lob in some grenades and rockets, but the bot is taking the hits. The player could also have a kit that is essentially a mini healer or damage prevention - your bot is tanking but you're sending in drones to repair it.

I'm picturing something like Rexxar in HotS but more complex abilities.

That is not a ranged tank, that is a pet tank and the concept is equally awful as has been shown in pretty much every single game that has ever attempted it.

[ro9ue]

That is not a ranged tank, that is a pet tank and the concept is equally awful as has been shown in pretty much every single game that has ever attempted it.

The player is still performing the tanking role and at a ranged distance = ranged tank.

[Ielenia]

I don't think the boss closing the distance on the ranged tank changes the definition of what it is though.

It doesn't, but it does make the definition pointless. I mean, what's the point of a "ranged tank" that cannot "range tank" since all the bosses (and most of the mobs) would just run to the "ranged tank" to engage in melee, anyways? Give it a 10-yard range, 20-yard range or 30-yard range, your targets will just close the distance and engage you in melee, anyways.

In a game designed like WoW, "ranged" can only apply to DPS and healers.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The player is still performing the tanking role and at a ranged distance = ranged tank.

The player can stand anywhere in the room, hence why it is a proxy tank or a melee tank or a mid range tank or an outside the boss room tank..

[Cracka_Bob]

Honestly, never been a fan of ranged tanks.

My thought of a Tinker could've been a double type tank method. Either you tank in your mech, or you eject and have the mech as a tanking unit.

I think it would be a cool "decoy" or "Last Stand" ability. Basically eject and "shadowstep" somewhere nearby (could be targeted like Heroic Leap) and your mech could take a hit or 2 and then self-destruct, dealing damage and putting a temp shield on you while it repairs itself. Alternatively, you could end the effect early and get pulled back into the mech without gaining the shield.

[ro9ue]

The player can stand anywhere in the room, hence why it is a proxy tank or a melee tank or a mid range tank or an outside the boss room tank..

So can a hunter... still a "ranged" dps.

[SirCowdog]

Yes, but designing such a boss without disadvantaging the four existing tanks would be very constraining on encounter designers, so they wouldn't do it.

Most likely, yeah. Part of the problem is that the Tank/Heal/DPS dynamic is too deeply part of the fundamental mechanics of the game. It's actually limiting what can be done with encounters. Which makes it REALLY amazing, considering what Blizzard have been able to do with it over the years.

No, I highly expect any Mech-based tank spec for Tinkers to be primarily melee, with a number of mid-ranged attacks or utility abilities.

Alternatively, we might see a situation where Tinker doesn't have a tank spec at all. Shredder could be a mech-based melee spec, Gunner/Explosives for a ranged spec, and then Medic for a heal spec. Because honestly, it doesn't really seem like the game needs another tank spec(not that it would hurt) as much as more heals.

But who knows what will actually happen.

[Revamp Man]

It's not my shitty class, it's Blizzard's shitty class. Blizzard created it, not me.

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Not if the tank has a dummy up to make the boss run to the dummy instead of the tank. This would keep the tank safe and allow it to blast away while the boss wails on the dummy.

Blizzard hasn't made the class

All we get are crappy Homebrew concepts

Also with the dummy thing.... like a pet??... like a hunter or warlock??

[Teriz]

Blizzard hasn't made the class

All we get are crappy Homebrew concepts

It's an NPC class.

Also with the dummy thing.... like a pet??... like a hunter or warlock??

It would more than likely be stationary.

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It doesn't, but it does make the definition pointless. I mean, what's the point of a "ranged tank" that cannot "range tank" since all the bosses (and most of the mobs) would just run to the "ranged tank" to engage in melee, anyways? Give it a 10-yard range, 20-yard range or 30-yard range, your targets will just close the distance and engage you in melee, anyways.

In a game designed like WoW, "ranged" can only apply to DPS and healers.

I enjoyed the ranged tanks in SWTOR more than the melee tanks even though I was still fighting in melee range.

That's the point.

[Ielenia]

I enjoyed the ranged tanks in SWTOR more than the melee tanks even though I was still fighting in melee range.

That's the point.

Well, SWTOR is not WoW, plus designing a "range tank" that has 10-yard range attacks is a waste of design, since, to make it work, basically every single mob and boss in the game would have to be changed, mechanically speaking, to make a "range tank" plausible. In SWTOR it works because the game was designed with that in mind.

[Teriz]

Well, SWTOR is not WoW, plus designing a "range tank" that has 10-yard range attacks is a waste of design, since, to make it work, basically every single mob and boss in the game would have to be changed, mechanically speaking, to make a "range tank" plausible. In SWTOR it works because the game was designed with that in mind.

A minute ago you were saying that this tank is no different than existing WoW tanks, and now you're saying that a faux ranged tank would break boss mechanics because it's so different than what we currently have. Which one is it?

[Tyrilion]

Ranged tanks are not viable in a majority of current content, imagine all the bosses with the mechanics that involve certain positioning, imagine a tank who has to kite to stay alive having to face a boss in a certain way and stand there getting wailed on. Ranged tanks will NEVER happen in WoW.