World First Ragnaros and Onyxia Kill on Classic by APES - Gehennas EU

[akse]

MC wasn't really hard even back then.. maybe Ragnaros caused some issues but thats about it.

We basically did first guild run up to 3rd boss with 28 people.

BWL did have some hard encounters like Vael which took some time to get the DPS and healing requirements. After that we pretty much one shotted all bosses up to Chromaggus and Nefa. Nefa took like 2 resets.

AQ40 was on a different league starting from Huhuran.

Classic raiding is more like social gathering, having fun and looting epics while killing bosses rather than some sort of sports event.

[Igzorn]

but classic was hard right?... with MC being the greatest raid ever made right?

not realy vanilla was one thing over all at the time New so raid guides were hard to come by. no one knew exactly waht to do. because of that ppl think of it as hard.

MC for exemple has same/less mechanics as a current dungeon on heroic. to be fair some time into the contend and my raid group didnt need 40 man at all to run it (mostly cap'd around 30 semi afk).

the real intresting stuff will be aq40 and naxx. those had much more going than MC and ONY had together.

[MrHappy]

not realy vanilla was one thing over all at the time New so raid guides were hard to come by. no one knew exactly waht to do. because of that ppl think of it as hard.

MC for exemple has same/less mechanics as a current dungeon on heroic. to be fair some time into the contend and my raid group didnt need 40 man at all to run it (mostly cap'd around 30 semi afk).

the real intresting stuff will be aq40 and naxx. those had much more going than MC and ONY had together.

yea but still pales in comparison to anything wrath +

[Axxil]

Yes they beat Method.

Stop begin mad

Try reading what my post was in response to. You're looking like a fool.

[Ragedaug]

Sry mate you're lacking some knowledge. They competed in fresh server starts, not hoping for a classic server.

I'm not sure what it means to start in fresh server starts, or how that impacts the sarcasm I would using.

[Aphrel]

"The original world first kill of Ragnaros was 154 days after the initial release of the raid, years of game knowledge and practice took this down to just 6 days!"

Is this a bait? Or is the author completly unaware that ragnaros had twice the health in the beginning of vanilla?

Ontopic: I wonder if blizzard is going to hotfix the obvious clever use of game mechanics both guilds that have downed ragnaros sofar have abused. (Mind controling an add in UBRS that give a 1hour buff that gives 255 fire resistance).
That shit is gonna be abused as hell.

I mean, they changed how the ony/nef buffs can be used. I wouldnt be surprised if this was nerfed aswell.

Anyhow, sick dedication to level up to 60 so damn fast. Im amazed by that feat alone.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact he got killed so fast tells me people are gonna run through Classic content soo fast.

most definetly. No raidencounter in the first 3 raids have any dps or hps benchmark to speak of, its just doing the mechanics and you win. So in that regard its about as hard as the later heroic bosses on retail.
Its not until naxx that there even will be any significant tuning, but at that point the guilds still playing will have minmaxed to the point of beating those requirements by miles.

- - - Updated - - -

And people said it can't be done week 1.''That there is a reputation and resistance to be farmed.''
Gratz to Apes.

Lets be honest here, i dont think anyone of us saw it coming that that mindcontroled addbuff from UBRS gave 255fire resistance. (was 60 or 70 on priv servers iirc)
While it certanly would have been doable without it, it completly trivialzed the fight.

What amazes me more than the kill is teh fact that they managed to level up so damn fast. Its insane :P

[thunterman]

Well you aren't wrong, I believe anyone can achieve anything if they put their mind to it, but what you just said is like saying, "Metallica doesn't have skill. They just use their vocal chords and write some words down and pluck their guitar strings literally anyone can do that." well, yea, anyone can, have you?

That is not the same and you know it. There is no mechanic to deal with, every spec has a 1-2 button rotation. There is literally a set in stone list of things required. Such as certain drops from some dungeons, fire resistance potions e.t.c.

If you have those, you kill him. If you don't, you can't. Old raids have a barrier, as soon as you pass the barrier, it's a faceroll. Modern raids have an extremely low barrier but a massive skill cap for the actual fight itself, in terms of mechanics. Classic is a better game overall, but man, the raids suck.

If you allowed APES to create a 120 toon, pluck any gear they wanted from a vendor, they wouldn't be able to kill Azshara mythic.

[Tucci]

Oh, who would've known! The so mighty and harcore vanilla raids were to be roflstomped as if they were not retarded at all.

Uhhh...you mean the super early content, by people who've done them a billion times already? They were once "so mighty and hardcore"...you know, when they were new and the game itself was new. Also, MC mechanics being simple is not news.

Vanilla content never went anywhere and much of it was even re-released for newer players. So trying to rub this in people's faces as an "I told you so" is the only retarded thing I'm seeing.

The over-simplification and homogenization of the overall game is what people dislike about retail. The complexity and flavor of Vanilla and the creativity and interaction needed to succeed is what makes Classic great.

[Dioporco]

Ontopic: I wonder if blizzard is going to hotfix the obvious clever use of game mechanics both guilds that have downed ragnaros sofar have abused. (Mind controling an add in UBRS that give a 1hour buff that gives 255 fire resistance).
That shit is gonna be abused as hell.




Lets be honest here, i dont think anyone of us saw it coming that that mindcontroled addbuff from UBRS gave 255fire resistance. (was 60 or 70 on priv servers iirc)

Don't wanna burst your bubble but that trick was used back in vanilla too.

The difference is that back then people didn't speedrun it in greens.
People didn't have the basic skill required to clear MC in greens or at 55, people will eventually get Fire Res Gear and start doing MC over months.

[thilicen]

This was expected. Mechanically most vanilla bosses were piss easy compared to what players are used to these days.

[Soikona]

Uhhh...you mean the super early content, by people who've done them a billion times already? They were once "so mighty and hardcore"...you know, when they were new and the game itself was new. Also, MC mechanics being simple is not news.

Vanilla content never went anywhere and much of it was even re-released for newer players. So trying to rub this in people's faces as an "I told you so" is the only retarded thing I'm seeing.

The over-simplification and homogenization of the overall game is what people dislike about retail. The complexity and flavor of Vanilla and the creativity and interaction needed to succeed is what makes Classic great.

Just to highlight the last part. Anyone else find this funny? Saying retail is over simplified compared to classic? Come on now, classic is stupid easy compared to retail. As long as you don’t face pull everything, you should never wipe in classic.

[faithbane]

"The original world first kill of Ragnaros was 154 days after the initial release of the raid, years of game knowledge and practice took this down to just 6 days!"

Is this a bait? Or is the author completly unaware that ragnaros had twice the health in the beginning of vanilla?

Ontopic: I wonder if blizzard is going to hotfix the obvious clever use of game mechanics both guilds that have downed ragnaros sofar have abused. (Mind controling an add in UBRS that give a 1hour buff that gives 255 fire resistance).
That shit is gonna be abused as hell.

I mean, they changed how the ony/nef buffs can be used. I wouldnt be surprised if this was nerfed aswell.

Anyhow, sick dedication to level up to 60 so damn fast. Im amazed by that feat alone.

- - - Updated - - -



most definetly. No raidencounter in the first 3 raids have any dps or hps benchmark to speak of, its just doing the mechanics and you win. So in that regard its about as hard as the later heroic bosses on retail.
Its not until naxx that there even will be any significant tuning, but at that point the guilds still playing will have minmaxed to the point of beating those requirements by miles.

- - - Updated - - -



Lets be honest here, i dont think anyone of us saw it coming that that mindcontroled addbuff from UBRS gave 255fire resistance. (was 60 or 70 on priv servers iirc)
While it certanly would have been doable without it, it completly trivialzed the fight.

What amazes me more than the kill is teh fact that they managed to level up so damn fast. Its insane :P

Those "Clever use of game mechanics" you were talking about were used throughout vanilla and were known to every half decent raiding guild so there is no reason to change any of that. World buffs were nerfed much later to be unusable in raids/dungeons. I played vanilla on a pvp server and you will never know the pain of running into a 40x40 fight right outside UBRS the raid after you got everyone buffed up

[sopeonaroap]

but classic was hard right?... with MC being the greatest raid ever made right?

this patch is 1.5years after MC launch. naxx had been cleared already. every talent tree had been optimized and buffed. it would be like doing the opening raid of any expansion right before the pre-patch came out. people are usually gearing up their 10th alt by leeching through raids that a few other people are ripping through

- - - Updated - - -

Those "Clever use of game mechanics" you were talking about were used throughout vanilla and were known to every half decent raiding guild so there is no reason to change any of that. World buffs were nerfed much later to be unusable in raids/dungeons. I played vanilla on a pvp server and you will never know the pain of running into a 40x40 fight right outside UBRS the raid after you got everyone buffed up

the XP bug is a bug, it wasn't part of 1.12 in vanilla. here is a post that breaks it down, even has a spreadsheet https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...s_to_be_fixed/

the bug comes from the 8.0 skeleton that classic has. in classic there was a penalty for being in a raid under level 60, in retail there isn't and this is part of that skeleton that accidentally transferred over. it was known to be a bug and people exploited it anyway. chances are blizz intended as much because the faster pace is better for streaming, got some action in week 1.

the difference was about 3x more xp per person in a 10m vs a 5m. shit died faster and gave more xp. it's a bug fix, not a tuning adjustment

[Frozenbro]

Just to highlight the last part. Anyone else find this funny? Saying retail is over simplified compared to classic? Come on now, classic is stupid easy compared to retail. As long as you don’t face pull everything, you should never wipe in classic.

He didnt take off his nostalgia glasses when posting, leave the poor guy alone.

[shise]

That is pretty bad news.

[Sezh]

I am 100% certain that every raid release in Classic we will see the entire raid cleared within 1 week. Quote me if I'm wrong.

[faithbane]

this patch is 1.5years after MC launch. naxx had been cleared already. every talent tree had been optimized and buffed. it would be like doing the opening raid of any expansion right before the pre-patch came out. people are usually gearing up their 10th alt by leeching through raids that a few other people are ripping through

- - - Updated - - -



the XP bug is a bug, it wasn't part of 1.12 in vanilla. here is a post that breaks it down, even has a spreadsheet https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...s_to_be_fixed/

the bug comes from the 8.0 skeleton that classic has. in classic there was a penalty for being in a raid under level 60, in retail there isn't and this is part of that skeleton that accidentally transferred over. it was known to be a bug and people exploited it anyway. chances are blizz intended as much because the faster pace is better for streaming, got some action in week 1.

the difference was about 3x more xp per person in a 10m vs a 5m. shit died faster and gave more xp. it's a bug fix, not a tuning adjustment

The "clever use of game mechanics" I replied to was about the user complaining about people going into MC with UBRS FR buff and other world buffs which were part of the original game.

I wasn't aware of the raid exp bug, I read about it earlier today. Guess it explains how some people breezed through 50s so fast.

[Aphrel]

I am 100% certain that every raid release in Classic we will see the entire raid cleared within 1 week. Quote me if I'm wrong.

ill raise you with my prediction that every raid released will be cleared within 5 hours of servers being up.

[faithbane]

This was expected. Mechanically most vanilla bosses were piss easy compared to what players are used to these days.

It is not just the fact that bosses are easier compared to now but also the level of knowledge and toolkit that we have now + the communication factor. On top of the classic is actually easier then vanilla because of the 1.12 talent trees and 16 debuff slots.

Doing MC for the first time in 2004/5 with people using voice chat for the first time, no target markets, no location markets, very limited boss guides was hard enough but on top of that, there are "mini" challenges on every few bosses for a new/unprepared raid. Imagine playing a game for the first time and you enter MC:

1st boss
40 people need to understand LOS mechanics (most of the raid is around 13-18 year old range at the time and first time playing an MMO)
Enough mages who never had to "Decurse" so far in the game to have a decursive addon or know how to spam decurse and not just spam frostbolt.

2nd boss
Dealing with "move out of fire" meme which is actually one of the first time people had to do that + knowing that you could be feared into fire so not stand right next to it either
Hunters with tranq shot

4th boss
Enough warlocks to banish adds + being able organize the locks, offtanks to their correct targets with no marking tools on a moving set of adds.

Majordomo - CC/tanking coordination for 8 adds and correctly slowing down dps/even killing.

Raggy - Fire resist gear/potions/buffs and first time dealing with multiple mechanics on a boss fight, knockbacks, intermissions, mana burn etc.


Those above sound trivial right now but back in the day it was a serious challenge especially when you had to organize 30-40 inexperienced people to do it with a very limited toolkit.

On top of this, add a demoralizing 10 min run back to raid + 5 mins preparation time between each wipe..

[Gorsameth]

My problem with that is...1)how did they defeat the dog without Tranq Shot.
2)Considering how often mobs resist if you're just one level lower how did they have the damage against boss level mobs with 55-58s.

Tranq shot is used to remove enrage, enrage just increases his attack speed. 1 tranq (hence the hunter) means every other enrage simply needs to be healed through. Its not that difficult.
Heck later on during farm tanks would ask Hunters not to Tranq so they could get more rage from the boss hitting them.

Tranq doesn't become important until BWL where I believe Flamegor will AoE while he is enraged.