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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialistul View Post
    ...
    Yeah, for me it's major problem too. It's mostly health problem. Many players don't even understand, that sitting in front of computer for more than one hour in a row - isn't actually healthy. Back in old days, when I was kid, I was able to play for hours non-stop. But now doing it causes mental fatigue, that can affect my real-life job, it causes blood pressure and circulation problems. I feel bad and tired. How can I work IRL, if I'm already tired? I can play other games without any problems. But unfortunately Wow is too hardcore for me. I try to play it "slowly" just for the sake of playing it, but I can't manage to do it. I start to feel, that I need to play more in order to achieve certain goals within reasonable time frame. This causes fatigue and burning out. Overall it's about FOMO problems. Other games allow me to play them lesser or not to play at all, if I don't feel, that I want it. I can switch between games, play games, I have mood for. Wow puts too much pressure on me. It forces me to spend my whole free time on it. I just can't do it any longer, sorry.

    Second major problem - is PVP/competitive games. In most cases such games don't regulate skill difference (FFA instead of proper MM) or don't have other anti-toxicity mechanics. Such games are built according to "Git gut, adapt and improve", that isn't always possible, because players usually have natural skill cap. Not everybody can play football at the same level, as Ronaldo or Messi, so it's just wrong to mix such players together with mid-skill players or even noobs. I just hate games, that allow other players to mock on me. While sometimes I like to play such games just to change scenery, I just can't bear playing sessions in such games for longer, than 20 minutes. Problem is - Blizzard's obsession to increase so called "interaction" between players, no matter, if it's positive or negative. So, more recent xpacks are more competitive, than old ones. Mostly due to artificial bottlenecks and traffic jams, intentionally created by Blizzard themselves and by design. This also decreases time, I can bear this game for.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    if you have a job sadly I don't think it's reasonable to engage in multiplayer activity; I think the best way to play wow is solo, that way you can eventually catch up all older content, bg and fast arenas are ok

    but if you want more you will need to find a way to afford not working, that means having a lot of money. very hard but possible.
    I'm sorry but that is just wrong. I work 12 hour day/night shifts. 200 hours a month, even 1-2 Sundays per month. I can successfully raid mythic just fine. Everyone can do that. You just need to have the mentality.
    Last edited by ceall; 2022-05-21 at 07:53 PM.

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceall View Post
    You just need to have the mentality.
    When there is a will there is a way but there is also the question whether the juice is worth the squeeze. For me currently SL doesn't meet the criteria to spend even an hour playing it. This could change or life could drag me further into it. Its a very personal choice that has no right or wrong answer esp for those of us who have played 18 years straight.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    When there is a will there is a way but there is also the question whether the juice is worth the squeeze. For me currently SL doesn't meet the criteria to spend even an hour playing it. This could change or life could drag me further into it. Its a very personal choice that has no right or wrong answer esp for those of us who have played 18 years straight.
    Well, you sure are right, however, the guy i quoted stated that you can't do group content if you have a job. And THAT is plain wrong.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialistul View Post
    Hello there. I am seasoned WoW player, I played most of the expansions and had my "glory days" in WotlK and WoD, when I heavily raided. So, life moved on, I got a bit older, I am working now in a corporate environment, then there are the usual social activities I take part in and girlfriend. Many times recently I still feel the urge to play WoW. It almost saddens me that I skipped so much in Legion, even if I made a 110 DH, and I have not played BFA at all.
    The way I see it the problem is time. If I spend 10 ours working at my office computer, then come home, barely have some time to eat, and then I need to rest my eyes a bit, how can I continue those 10 ours and turn them into what...14-15 hours of computer screen a day.
    The thing is I see many people managing it, I'm beginning to chat with them, they joke sometimes that they quit their job and mistreat their wife, but other than that the main answer is that they really enjoy the game, but to play so much, I think you have to take time from other areas of your life, so then you have to choose what is more important, what activities vs a video game.
    So all in all this is what I am asking you too, how do you manage it all? How much time do you play? How to juggle all of this.

    P.S I keep saying to myself this time I will play casual, I'm just going to be a casual player, but I can't do it, can't feel ok, if I'm not there raiding or doing end game activities.
    The most important part is getting a organized guild.
    Many people do not realize how much time it saves. E.g. even mythic raiding in an organized guild is easily done with very little time investment. 2 evenings a week, 3 hours each, 6 hours in total, are usually enough to get you either CE or at least pretty close to it. Only exception are 2-3 weeks after a new patch goes live, where you fit in 1-2 additional raid nights each week for normal and heroic. But even that is flex, so if you only have 2 hours instead of the full 3, just talk to your raid lead before and leave after 2h. No harm done.
    If you want to stay with heroic its even less time required, as it can be done in one evening. Once you play in an organized guild, gearing up becomes irrelevant, as it happens organically.

    Being in an organized guild eliminates the two biggest time killers:
    - Looking for groups / Queue times
    - "Wasted" time, as in you want to finish one m+ dungeon and after 30 minutes somebody leaves and you have to lfg again.

    Do not accept the narrative that being in a guild is only for hardcore players and that without playing 6 hours a days you can't get anything done. It's bullshit and could not be further away from the truth.
    Doing 4m+ and clearing heroic each week can easily be done with less than 6 hours a week.
    Last edited by Accendor; 2022-05-21 at 08:51 PM.

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral m4xc4v413r4's Avatar
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    "How much time does WoW need"

    Yes

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    The most important part is getting a organized guild.
    Many people do not realize how much time it saves. E.g. even mythic raiding in an organized guild is easily done with very little time investment. 2 evenings a week, 3 hours each, 6 hours in total, are usually enough to get you either CE or at least pretty close to it. Only exception are 2-3 weeks after a new patch goes live, where you fit in 1-2 additional raid nights each week for normal and heroic. But even that is flex, so if you only have 2 hours instead of the full 3, just talk to your raid lead before and leave after 2h. No harm done.
    If you want to stay with heroic its even less time required, as it can be done in one evening. Once you play in an organized guild, gearing up becomes irrelevant, as it happens organically.

    Being in an organized guild eliminates the two biggest time killers:
    - Looking for groups / Queue times
    - "Wasted" time, as in you want to finish one m+ dungeon and after 30 minutes somebody leaves and you have to lfg again.

    Do not accept the narrative that being in a guild is only for hardcore players and that without playing 6 hours a days you can't get anything done. It's bullshit and could not be further away from the truth.
    Doing 4m+ and clearing heroic each week can easily be done with less than 6 hours a week.
    While I generally agree with your statement those numbers are pushing it, normally I wouldn't contest it but with the topic at hand:
    -You don't just get into a (successful) 2 evening CE guild by chance, 3 days is way more pragmatic when you start out.
    -If you're playing on aotc. level, 4x M+ and full clear heroic in 6 hours is only realistic when you're already well into farm, that won't be the case for the first few weeks.
    -There'll always be some initial time investmet/grind and character maintenance as well, right now in ZM it's pretty laid back and I hope Blizzard will continue on that path, it's still worth to keep in mind that this can quickly change on a expansion and patch to patch basis as that was the biggest factor in Legion for me to drop CE raiding entirely (as a fucking college student at that time lmao.)

  8. #28
    High Overlord Specialistul's Avatar
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    hey guys, I'm here to tell you that I am very happy I subscribed for a month yesterday and started BfA campaign on both my Horde Warlock and my Alliance Hunter, hmm, I used to be really good on my Warlock now I feel I am not doing my DPS properly with all the changes, but for the Hunter I am very confident and probably will remain my main. I am very satisfied with the story on both sides until now, I gained 2 levels on one char and almost one level on the other, and I only played 2 - 3 hours.
    So what if I keep making levels and hit 48? can't I still keep going in BfA until the end of it's story?

    P.S this Chromie thing is exactly like you guys said, awesome for someone like me, and I think it's a good thing to have with so many expansions, now I can take my time with whatever class I want, and when I finish BfA and Shadowlands I plan on doing Legion on another character, and I will be pretty much up to date with the storyline.

    Vanilla - check
    TBC - check
    WotlK - check
    Cataclysm - check
    MoP - check
    WoD - check
    Legion - TBD (even if I have a 45 DH)
    BfA - TBD
    Shadowlands - TBD

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialistul View Post
    hey guys, I'm here to tell you that I am very happy I subscribed for a month yesterday and started BfA campaign on both my Horde Warlock and my Alliance Hunter, hmm, I used to be really good on my Warlock now I feel I am not doing my DPS properly with all the changes, but for the Hunter I am very confident and probably will remain my main. I am very satisfied with the story on both sides until now, I gained 2 levels on one char and almost one level on the other, and I only played 2 - 3 hours.
    So what if I keep making levels and hit 48? can't I still keep going in BfA until the end of it's story?

    P.S this Chromie thing is exactly like you guys said, awesome for someone like me, and I think it's a good thing to have with so many expansions, now I can take my time with whatever class I want, and when I finish BfA and Shadowlands I plan on doing Legion on another character, and I will be pretty much up to date with the storyline.

    Vanilla - check
    TBC - check
    WotlK - check
    Cataclysm - check
    MoP - check
    WoD - check
    Legion - TBD (even if I have a 45 DH)
    BfA - TBD
    Shadowlands - TBD
    You can stay in bfa as long as you want as it is the only expansion that is not tied to chromie time. However, once you reach 50 (or 51, idk really), exp gains are going to tank.
    48 is when you CAN move on to shadowlands, you don't have to.

    Generally speaking, if you want to experience the entire story of an expansion, you will need to put in a level stop at 49 because you will get kicked out of chromie time once you hit 50. Then you MUST go to Shadowlands.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialistul View Post
    So what if I keep making levels and hit 48? can't I still keep going in BfA until the end of it's story?
    That's why people usually go for a fresh alt if they want to see the full story. You can still do the content, start where you left off, but no longer in Chromie time.

    The Cataclysm content is the most jarring in that sense. I wish there was a Chromie Time just for the end-game (Deepholm, Hyjal, Uldum, Twilight Highlands and Vashjr) in Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Iain; 2022-05-22 at 12:30 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    While I generally agree with your statement those numbers are pushing it, normally I wouldn't contest it but with the topic at hand:
    -You don't just get into a (successful) 2 evening CE guild by chance, 3 days is way more pragmatic when you start out.
    Which is why I said "or at least pretty close to it". Once you accept that sometimes you will get CE, sometimes you will not, A LOT more guilds open up for you. E.g. I stopped 3days/week like 8 years ago and I'm still finishing most tiers with CE. It's always my goal to reach it, but if it doesn't work out one time, oh well.

    -If you're playing on aotc. level, 4x M+ and full clear heroic in 6 hours is only realistic when you're already well into farm, that won't be the case for the first few weeks.
    While that is true, I also mentioned that the first 2-3 weeks after a patch usually include a little bit more play time. Completely agree with that, there are short periods where some more playing is recommended.

    -There'll always be some initial time investmet/grind and character maintenance as well, right now in ZM it's pretty laid back and I hope Blizzard will continue on that path, it's still worth to keep in mind that this can quickly change on a expansion and patch to patch basis as that was the biggest factor in Legion for me to drop CE raiding entirely (as a fucking college student at that time lmao.)
    This is only true if you think you need to be up2date with every progression system all the time, but that is simply not the case.
    E.g. AP in legion: There was a huge breaking point to get most perks at the beginning and after that it was grind the weapon more and more for 0.5% damage increases. While the 0.5 accumulated in the end to actually a lot of damage, if you just followed the natural progression flow, you had to use progression weeks to learn mechanics either way and when you came to the point where damage started to matter, the ultra strong catchup had already kicked in and boosted you to where you should be.

    Point is, the catchup mechanics are always super super strong in WoW, way too strong actually, but that only means that once you let go of the "I need to have every minimal upgrade immediately" and concentrate on the big things, you will realize how much playtime you need for exactly the same gain.

  12. #32
    People have always chronically underestimated how many hours they're spending on the game. I'd be very surprised if most people that consider themselves 6 hr/week raid loggers are actually playing 10+ hours a week. For example, Halls of Atonement is a mythic+ dungeon with a 32 minute timer. By the time you form a pug, fly everyone out there, summon them, discuss strats and buff, countdown, do the dungeon, and then distribute loot, you're looking at 40 minutes minimum if everything went super smooth. If it didn't, 40-50.

    And these guilds that are able to clear the content, such as heroic raids, in minimal raiding schedules?

    They didn't get super good by not playing the game.

    I was in a 9 hour a week raiding guild that got CE all of Legion. Between AP farming, mythic+, alts, I was probably playing the game a minimum of 20 hours a week and then doing other raid research for another 10 hours on my phone, discords, etc. Now granted that's for cutting edge mythic which is not necessary, but to play well enough to keep a raid spot in a cutting-edge guild that's 9-12 hours a week you have to be getting more reps in than the actual raiding schedule.

    But again I want to stress that 90% of WoW players aren't honest or accurate with themselves about how long things in this game take.

    F--- setting up the UI properly for decent raiding takes 3-4 hours by itself.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2022-05-22 at 01:12 PM.
    Screenshot of realm balance in 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20060328...realmstats.php
    Illdian and Mal'Ganis were 50-50 and Tichondrius was the most Horde-heavy at 60-40. 110 servers had an Alliance majority, 34 were Horde majority.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Yeah, for me it's major problem too. It's mostly health problem. Many players don't even understand, that sitting in front of computer for more than one hour in a row - isn't actually healthy. Back in old days, when I was kid, I was able to play for hours non-stop. But now doing it causes mental fatigue, that can affect my real-life job, it causes blood pressure and circulation problems. I feel bad and tired. How can I work IRL, if I'm already tired? I can play other games without any problems. But unfortunately Wow is too hardcore for me. I try to play it "slowly" just for the sake of playing it, but I can't manage to do it. I start to feel, that I need to play more in order to achieve certain goals within reasonable time frame. This causes fatigue and burning out. Overall it's about FOMO problems. Other games allow me to play them lesser or not to play at all, if I don't feel, that I want it. I can switch between games, play games, I have mood for. Wow puts too much pressure on me. It forces me to spend my whole free time on it. I just can't do it any longer, sorry.

    Second major problem - is PVP/competitive games. In most cases such games don't regulate skill difference (FFA instead of proper MM) or don't have other anti-toxicity mechanics. Such games are built according to "Git gut, adapt and improve", that isn't always possible, because players usually have natural skill cap. Not everybody can play football at the same level, as Ronaldo or Messi, so it's just wrong to mix such players together with mid-skill players or even noobs. I just hate games, that allow other players to mock on me. While sometimes I like to play such games just to change scenery, I just can't bear playing sessions in such games for longer, than 20 minutes. Problem is - Blizzard's obsession to increase so called "interaction" between players, no matter, if it's positive or negative. So, more recent xpacks are more competitive, than old ones. Mostly due to artificial bottlenecks and traffic jams, intentionally created by Blizzard themselves and by design. This also decreases time, I can bear this game for.
    These all sound like you problems though and not the games problems. If FOMO shit in video games is actually affecting your mental health you have a lot more serious issues to take care of my dude. You sound like that dude who got depressed because he traded a mount to asmongold.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    People have always chronically underestimated how many hours they're spending on the game. I'd be very surprised if most people that consider themselves 6 hr/week raid loggers are actually playing 10+ hours a week. For example, Halls of Atonement is a mythic+ dungeon with a 32 minute timer. By the time you form a pug, fly everyone out there, summon them, discuss strats and buff, countdown, do the dungeon, and then distribute loot, you're looking at 40 minutes minimum if everything went super smooth. If it didn't, 40-50.

    And these guilds that are able to clear the content, such as heroic raids, in minimal raiding schedules?

    They didn't get super good by not playing the game.

    I was in a 9 hour a week raiding guild that got CE all of Legion. Between AP farming, mythic+, alts, I was probably playing the game a minimum of 20 hours a week and then doing other raid research for another 10 hours on my phone, discords, etc. Now granted that's for cutting edge mythic which is not necessary, but to play well enough to keep a raid spot in a cutting-edge guild that's 9-12 hours a week you have to be getting more reps in than the actual raiding schedule.

    But again I want to stress that 90% of WoW players aren't honest or accurate with themselves about how long things in this game take.

    F--- setting up the UI properly for decent raiding takes 3-4 hours by itself.
    Rule: if people tell you they spend 1h per night they spend 3. If they told you they spend 6 hours a day, they spend 9. Its kinda like that meme rule for sex. Girl says she had sex with one person, means 3 person. Guy says 3, means 1 or 0.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    These all sound like you problems though and not the games problems. If FOMO shit in video games is actually affecting your mental health you have a lot more serious issues to take care of my dude. You sound like that dude who got depressed because he traded a mount to asmongold.
    Again. It's the same problem with giving me gun and telling me not to shoot people. If game is designed bad way, then there is no wonder, that it causes problems. I don't think, that "It's up to you to beat this problems" is viable argument. Yeah, some people are strong enough to withstand against such problems, but majority of people isn't. That's why we fight against smoking, drinking alcohol and drugs instead of telling people to deal with this problems by themselves. Overall it's about "Way of playing this game, that makes it worth playing". Yeah, some players pay sub fee just to kiss squirrels. Some players pay sub fee just to talk in green chat. Some players pay sub fee, but don't even play. They just forget about it. But I'm very purposeful player. If I pay sub fee and I play this game - I should achieve some minimum goals in it. And if even minimal goals require too much effort - then it's better not to play such game at all and find something more suitable.

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