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  1. #1

    The Horde and the Alliance have changed places

    Before the Horde was a bunch of outcasts living in the world that is intent on killing them while the Alliance consisted of entire nations with dozens of cities and large outposts. Now:

    Orcs- Ogrimmar
    Forsaken- Refugees
    Tauren- Thunder Bluff
    Trolls- Echo Isles
    Blood elves- Silvermoon
    Goblins- Bligewater Harbor
    Nightborne- Suramar
    Zandalari- Zandalar
    High mountain- Thunder Totem


    Humans- Stormwind
    Night elves- Refugees
    Gnomes- Refugees
    Worgen- Refugees
    Void elves- Refugees (I wouldn't call a void infested rock with no settlements as a home)
    Draenei- Exodar
    Dark Irons- Shadowforge
    Kul Tiran- Boralus
    Dwarves- Ironforge

    Horde 1/9 refugees
    Alliance 4/9 refugees

    Besides the capitals, the amount of outposts and smaller towns that the Alliance lost is absurd while Horde lost Taurajo, Brill and umm...

    Almost half of the Alliance races are refugees, 3 of them at the hands of the present Horde. Now the Alliance is in the world that is intent on killing them.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-09-01 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Now the Alliance is in the world that is intent on killing them.
    No. That would mean that the Alliance is the underdog. And it's not. They were winning the war in EVERY FRONT (this is stated by Blightcaller himself) and could have won the war in a matter of weeks if it hadn't been for the Azshara deus ex machina. In the War of Thorns they were handicapped so that they wouldn't instantly win the war (Alleria, the Vindicaar, and the Aurobos did nothing). In Lordaeron they were again handicapped by forgetting any form of protection against the blight when invading the literal land of the blight.

    Also, I think you are overestimating the nightborne, zandalari, and highmountain tauren. The nightborne live in a city that was ravaged by the Legion. Elisande exterminated the population of an entire district, and many nightborne were sacrificed to the Legion. Their command structure (as well as most of their military and a lot of pro-Elisande nobles) was wiped out. At the start of BfA there were large pockets of Fel corruption just in the Nighthold, so we can assume the city is not in good shape after many months of Legion occupation and a siege from three different armies. The zandalari only occupy Dazar'alor and the surrounding region. Nazmir and Vol'dun are hostile to them. Blood cultists were hiding beneath their streets and inside Zanchul. The highmountain tauren suffered heavy losses in the previous expansion, when one of their four tribes turned rogue, the Rivermane village was wiped out, the Skyhorn tribe had a lot of trouble with the harpies, and Thunder Totem itself was repeatedly attacked by Legion invasions. These allied races still have a "home" intact. But I'm willing to bet that Suramar and Thunder Bluff are half-abandoned at the beginning of BfA, and Dazar'alor is probably in a semi-ruined state after the battle.
    Void elves- Refugees (I wouldn't call a void infested rock with no settlements as a home)
    A void-infested rock that holds a lot of knowledge that could advance the void elves' research, and at the same time is basically beyond anyone's reach, since to go there you need to know its location and how to access it (knowledge that is known only to the void elves themselves, who continued the work started by Drathir). It is a much-needed and very secure refuge.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-09-01 at 01:42 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #3
    Nobody in their right mind would call the dirt and hovels the horde calls 'houses' or 'towns' a home.

    So, Tauren: Refugees. Trolls of all colour: Refugees. Most Orcs: Refugees. Forsaken: Refugees. Blood Elves: Dwelling in Ruins. Goblins: Refugees.

    Oh, sorry. You might call it 'nomadic'.
    Last edited by Skulltaker; 2019-09-01 at 02:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Nobody in their right mind would call the dirt and hovels the horde calls 'houses' or 'towns' a home.

    So, Tauren: Refugees. Trolls of all colour: Refugees. Most Orcs: Refugees. Forsaken: Refugees. Blood Elves: Dwelling in Ruins. Goblins: Refugees.

    Oh, sorry. You might call it 'nomadic'.
    How are they nomads? Tauren, Orcs, Blood elves, Goblins and Trolls now are all in permanent settlements, most since Vanilla.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    How are they nomads? Tauren, Orcs, Blood elves, Goblins and Trolls now are all in permanent settlements, most since Vanilla.
    They live in tents or huts. They are either nomads or live in the dirt.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    They live in tents or huts. They are either nomads or live in the dirt.
    Nomads are those that move from one place to another often. Most of those races mentioned stayed since vanilla in the same region.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Nomads are those that move from one place to another often. Most of those races mentioned stayed since vanilla in the same region.
    Then why don't they put up a proper home instead of living in mud or dirt? A Tent is not a home. It's a temporary shelter at best.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Then why don't they put up a proper home instead of living in mud or dirt? A Tent is not a home. It's a temporary shelter at best.
    It's their homes, different cultures live differently, yes, of course, they could build Buildings like humans and dwarves(Worgen falls under humans, okay), If the blood elves live in ruins, then so does the Night elves(p.s Even Teldrasil was essentially ruins, it was raised from the sea). Building Like keeps and such in the desert or in a jungle is begging to be destroyed by nature, so they would rather live in tents that shield them from most of nature while also making sure that it's easy to remove should the need be.

    Taurens, were a nomadic people until they found Mulgore with the aid of Thrall, Rexxar and Chenn.

    Trolls, They have cities just not a humans idea of a city(dazar'alor is one of the biggest)
    Orcs, Orgrimmar is hardly Hovels anymore not since Garrosh remade it into what it is today, it's a fortress carved out into the rock.

    Forsaken, Ok fair does yes they are refugees most likely a lot of the forsaken occupy the belly of orgrimmar these days

    The blood elves? they have a home..and it's hardly a hovel by any stretch.

    That's lorewise.

    gamewise? these areas are MASSIVE, we don't see everything because if we did it would at least an hour if your running at all times at full speed to get through orgrimmar, that is if it's not packed with loads of people. the same goes for the Alliance cities good luck getting around stormwind in less than hour to get out of the city, it's packed to the brim, are blizzard going to show us that? probly not because 1. it would lag the game out like hell 2. would most players appreciate it? nope. 3. would it be worth the effort to do it? no not really.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Then why don't they put up a proper home instead of living in mud or dirt? A Tent is not a home. It's a temporary shelter at best.
    Because orcs only give a damn about killing things, not learning to farm, or proper architecture, or pretty much anything that would improve their lot so they wouldn't need to raid and kill. From what I can tell, they view such as sissy.

    Now, the real reason is because Blizzard doesn't give a damn and doesn't think of things like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Because orcs only give a damn about killing things, not learning to farm, or proper architecture, or pretty much anything that would improve their lot so they wouldn't need to raid and kill. From what I can tell, they view such as sissy.

    Now, the real reason is because Blizzard doesn't give a damn and doesn't think of things like that.
    Thats ironic. They see basic survivability improvements as sissy and they spit on mercy or diplomacy and they don't seem to want to learn. Are they any better than any villain at this point? Shouldn't the Alliance either finish them completely or occupy them and make them change by force? What else you can do if you have a rabid beast that doesn't want to learn anything else than killing you?
    Last edited by Darth-Piekus; 2019-09-01 at 03:17 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Then why don't they put up a proper home instead of living in mud or dirt? A Tent is not a home. It's a temporary shelter at best.
    For the same reason the NEs rely on outdated technology and live in trees. For Tauren it's cultural choice based off of their shamanistic and hunter-gather traits. For Trolls, a lot of them have been ravaged by each other, elves, humans, and abandoned by the Zandalari's riches. If given the chance to build a stable home, they build quite opulent cities. Most troll tribes should be known for their carving and stone-relief building techniques, rather than the minority reliant on jungle vines and driftwood. Orc homes have evolved due to Garrosh's standards.

    The mudhut joke has been false since Cataclysm revamped these areas. The Horde's living conditions are about equal to the Alliance's. This gets back to the OP's interesting point -- while the Horde has been built up, Alliance races (and future races) have been gradually torn down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Because orcs only give a damn about killing things, not learning to farm, or proper architecture, or pretty much anything that would improve their lot so they wouldn't need to raid and kill. From what I can tell, they view such as sissy.

    Now, the real reason is because Blizzard doesn't give a damn and doesn't think of things like that.
    I think they've actually done all of these things. They know how to farm, they know proper architecture, and they know how to industrialize. The worst sin is that they still choose the path of war when it's unnecessary.
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  12. #12
    More important than the 1 by 1 count of who lost what is the general feeling that was created by these changes. And that feeling is much worse.

    The Alliance comes across as a total victim, just sitting there to be butchered by the Horde, not defending itself in any meaningful way. And if they lose, they lose big. And forever. Total desperation and humiliation. Also, they NEVER win. Nothing. Absolutely no new settlement of importance was created by the Alliance. They gained absolutely nothing.

    Meanwhile on the Horde side...yes, they may lose sometimes. VERY rarely. And if they do, it NEVER is in a humiliating way. There always is immediate retaliation. They also don't lose anything meaningful. No, Undercity does not count because it was destroyed by Sylvanas, not the Alliance. The Horde did NOT lose Loradearon to the Alliance. You may argue that this is semantics and just looking at the current status of the war they did lose it to the Alliance in some way...but as i said in the beginning: The feeling delivered is more important. And from that PoV they simply did NOT lose Lordaeron to the Alliance. It was willingly given up by Sylvanas.
    And when it comes to winning and gaining....oh boy. There is a litteral Horde Symbol as one of the zones of Kalimdor. They also got pretty much the entire Landmass of Legion.

    Obviously Blizzard does not want Horde players to ever feel defeated and humiliated...while those are exactly the feelings they enjoy putting on Alliance players. And then they have the balls to make some mocking jokes on stage at Blizzcon. They really have nobody to blame but themselves that the current faction ratio at lvl120 is as bad as it is. And it will get worse.
    Last edited by Nathasil; 2019-09-01 at 03:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    Obviously Blizzard does not want Horde players to ever feel defeated and humiliated...
    Really? Because there is nothing more humiliating than being forced to help someone actively hostile to your faction.

  14. #14
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Really? Because there is nothing more humiliating than being forced to help someone actively hostile to your faction.
    *sniff* *sniff* What is that smell ? Is that smell of someone who doesn't sympathize with Jaina ? Off to reeducation gulag with you!

    Horde should be grateful that they are being granted opportunity to work with lady proudmoore and by proxy to serve the spiritual liege.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I think they've actually done all of these things. They know how to farm, they know proper architecture, and they know how to industrialize.
    OK, where are their farms? After all, we hear endless bleating they need to trade or raid for resources because they don't know how. More accurately, Blizz finds such world-building boring now, no "duuuuuuude cooooooool" moments to be had on a farm after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    More important than the 1 by 1 count of who lost what is the general feeling that was created by these changes. And that feeling is much worse.

    The Alliance comes across as a total victim, just sitting there to be butchered by the Horde, not defending itself in any meaningful way. And if they lose, they lose big. And forever. Total desperation and humiliation. Also, they NEVER win. Nothing. Absolutely no new settlement of importance was created by the Alliance. They gained absolutely nothing.

    Meanwhile on the Horde side...yes, they may lose sometimes. VERY rarely. And if they do, it NEVER is in a humiliating way. There always is immediate retaliation. They also don't lose anything meaningful. No, Undercity does not count because it was destroyed by Sylvanas, not the Alliance. The Horde did NOT lose Loradearon to the Alliance. You may argue that this is semantics and just looking at the current status of the war they did lose it to the Alliance in some way...but as i said in the beginning: The feeling delivered is more important. And from that PoV they simply did NOT lose Lordaeron to the Alliance. It was willingly given up by Sylvanas.
    And when it comes to winning and gaining....oh boy. There is a litteral Horde Symbol as one of the zones of Kalimdor. They also got pretty much the entire Landmass of Legion.

    Obviously Blizzard does not want Horde players to ever feel defeated and humiliated...while those are exactly the feelings they enjoy putting on Alliance players. And then they have the balls to make some mocking jokes on stage at Blizzcon. They really have nobody to blame but themselves that the current faction ratio at lvl120 is as bad as it is. And it will get worse.
    Bravo. Don't forget how their hired act screamed curses at Alliance customers and they had to be shamed into apologizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Really? Because there is nothing more humiliating than being forced to help someone actively hostile to your faction.
    Gosh, do tell us Alliance players what that's like.
    Last edited by Feanoro; 2019-09-01 at 04:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  16. #16
    You know Feanoro? It's funny how many times we are hearing that the game consists of two factions and if one conquers the other then Blizzard will lose half of it's playerbase yet I don't hear the same kind of thinking when the Alliance tends to get shitted over and especially the Night Elves. For some reason if the Horde gets conquered then it's the end of the world but it is absolutely normal when they play the villain. Is it possible that the vocal minority is becoming so much of a pest that Blizzard succumbs?

  17. #17
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    OK, where are their farms? After all, we hear endless bleating they need to trade or raid for resources because they don't know how. More accurately, Blizz finds such world-building boring now, no "duuuuuuude cooooooool" moments to be had on a farm after all.
    There are several in Durator and in Northern Barrens. There is Rocktusk, Jaggedswine, etc. If swine farms don't sell it for you, Go'Sheck is another example. Here is a list of others.

    Orcs know how to farm--I'm not sure who specially claimed otherwise--it's just that they lack the resources to do it on a large/thriving scale. I assume to feed their swine, they have farms for meal or get it from Mulgore. The real problem with orcs is that when they finally get these resources, they immediately use it for additional war efforts rather than improving the things their conquest was supposed to alleviate.
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  18. #18
    That shows me that they just crave to kill and take rather than work for it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Nomads are those that move from one place to another often. Most of those races mentioned stayed since vanilla in the same region.
    Ignore him, he is just trolling. Next thing he will say is that lorewise the blood elves has more population than the whole horde
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  20. #20
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    and the alliance now have a warchief, and we re slowly going to a place where the horde will be just a council of leaders like the alliance was supposed to be

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