Page 44 of 89 FirstFirst ...
34
42
43
44
45
46
54
... LastLast
  1. #861
    How about don't use it and don't worry, it does not effect you if you don't use it.

    I see this everywhere elitist jerks who want everything the way you want it, a lot of the people who played vanilla back when it released are a lot older now, have jobs, lives, wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends etc. Just because I have a job a life and a wife, does not mean I am able to be like these hardcore raiders and spend hours and hours and hours on the game, farming, gearing up, all that, but just because I cannot play that much does not mean I do not deserve to see the story progression, I feel like a lot of people forgot this is a damn game! with a storyline!

    I am one of those people who like leveling, doing LFR and seeing the story progress, would I love to go back to raiding hardcore again....maybe but I cannot do that anymore, I am 31 and have a life outside the game, but that should not mean I am not allowed to see the end game, I pay the same amount of money on a sub as you and there is nothing you can say or do that will take that away. LFR is not going away any time soon, because casuals or (Filthy casuals which you call us "which is dumb by the way") out number the hardcore players, because people do have lives outside of this game, just because you don't does not mean everyone else does not.

    End of the day LFR Does not effect you, and if it does it is because you are letting it, nothing is stopping you from joining a raiding guild and doing what you love, but for the love of god, don't stop us from doing what we love.

    Remember World of Warcraft is an MMORPG it is meant to be played the way the person paying for their sub wants to. Don't like flying? don't! Like Flying! awesome!, Hate PVP cool! that is what normal realms are for!, like pvp? awesome! that is what PVP realms and warmode is for! You don't see me saying I HATE PVP GET RID OF WARMODE! because I do not care, I don't have to use it if I do not want to, just like if you don't like LFR don't use it. Just because YOU don't like it does not mean everyone does, don't ruin it for the people that do.

  2. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Then give a proper reason that you can adequately defend. Honestly, if there was any factual basis for this assertion being made by "thousands" then surely someone could put together an argument that isn't shredded so easily. The fact that thousands of people claim "it devalues higher raid content" but between cannot put together a cogent explanation of why, actually speaks to the fact that the assertion is bullshit plain and simple.
    We have..... It's not being "shredded". We've explained why. You can't just say "JuSt DoNt dO LFR!". It gives gear, and is the easiest form of the raid. People are going to do it. Players take the path of least resistance. People end up doing LFR and then can't be bothered to do Normal or Heroic.

    You're essentially saying that these players who can't be bothered to do Normal/Heroic after doing LFR desires are wrong lol.... how can anyone be so arrogant....
    Last edited by barrsftw; 2019-09-06 at 08:13 AM.

  3. #863
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,267
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    We have..... It's not being "shredded". We've explained why.
    No you haven't. Not in the slightest.

    Saying "LFR is bad for the game because it's toxic cancer" isn't an explanation. It's a baseless assertion.

    An argument that can't even stand up to a simple and obvious rebuttal, riddled with logical flaws that could fly a city through hardly qualifies as an "adequate" explanation:

    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    You can't just say "JuSt DoNt dO LFR!". It gives gear, and is the easiest form of the raid.
    Other raid difficulties give significantly better gear. WQs give better gear. Benthic gives better gear. There is absolutely nothing compelling anyone to run LFR for gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    People are going to do it. Players take the path of least resistance. People end up doing LFR and then can't be bothered to do Normal or Heroic.
    So that's somehow LFR's fault? Come on dude, we're not slaves without choice. I am also a person. I have done LFR and I am still "bothered" to do Normal and Heroic. At least half of my guild also dabbles occasionally in LFR and none have quit real raiding because of it.

    The existence of LFR is not a reason to not "bother" with normal or heroic. Ironically, you've actually highlighted the flaw in your logic through the use of that word: "bother". You see that's the real reason why those people don't do normal or heroic. Because they regard it as a "bother". That is not LFR's fault at all. It simply means that Normal or Heroic are not appealing to the people in question. Now, while you might well be correct that some of those people might "bother" to go and do Normal/Heroic if LFR didn't exist, you cannot reasonably argue that this is a good thing.

    I mean, seriously, why on earth would you want to encourage people to do something that they find to be bothersome? That is the perfect way to create toxicity in the game. It is much better for everyone involved if said people stay away from Normal/Heroic, and for that reason, LFR is actually healthy for the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    You're essentially saying that these players who can't be bothered to do Normal/Heroic after doing LFR desires are wrong lol.... how can anyone be so arrogant....
    No, I am not saying that they're wrong at all. I am saying you're wrong to want to force/coerce them in Normal/Heroic in the first place when, clearly, they have absolutely no real desire to be there. You're wrong to think it's your place to dictate what difficulty modes should be available to them so that they have no choice but to follow the one you think they should.

    That, my friend, is actual arrogance.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2019-09-06 at 08:49 AM.

  4. #864
    People say excuses like "-Im this age and I have a kids and wife etc" but I have raided with plenty of people who were in similar situations and they were fine.

    LFR isnt a necessity to the game its just lazy unfulfilling game-design, queue 1.5 hours for a group where none of the tanks bothered to research tactics before hand, wipe for 2 more hours. Or be social and find a guild and overcome those obstacles with better reward in lesser time than you have to waste in LFR queues & wipes? Easy enough choice.

    It makes more sense to schedule a playtime where you are more or less guaranteed to clear content than randomly choose 3 hours on a given day that you might not even clear or people will leave or what not.

    People do have time, they are just lazy and make terrible choices.

  5. #865
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    4,846
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    People say excuses like "-Im this age and I have a kids and wife etc" but I have raided with plenty of people who were in similar situations and they were fine.
    And I know plenty former guildies who don't have time for scheduled raids and only do LFR from time to time. I see no issue with them having access to this "casual" difficulty mode, since otherwise, they wouldn't raid at all. Meanwhile, I am doing higher difficulty content, completely unaffected by this - and why would I be? Oh no, they killed a boss that does 1/10th of damage and doesn't use half of its abilities. My ego is shattered.
    LFR isnt a necessity to the game its just lazy unfulfilling game-design, queue 1.5 hours for a group where none of the tanks bothered to research tactics before hand, wipe for 2 more hours. Or be social and find a guild and overcome those obstacles with better reward in lesser time than you have to waste in LFR queues & wipes? Easy enough choice.
    LFR can be done at any time, reasonably quickly (depending on queues), requires no scheduling, no consumable farming, no AP farming, no essence farming and so on. People *hugely* underestimate the time investment "necessary" to raid on higher level. Even on normal, you need a lot higher perfomance than LFR, which in turn means a lot more time. It's the epitome of "plug&play" experience, with the option of having something more involving if someone is into that.
    It makes more sense to schedule a playtime where you are more or less guaranteed to clear content than randomly choose 3 hours on a given day that you might not even clear or people will leave or what not.

    People do have time, they are just lazy and make terrible choices.
    What if their schedule is too erratic for regular raiding? What if they don't feel like dealing with 9+ people? What if it's my alt and I don't feel like looking for PUG and just want to see how I do on some random boss?

    None of that matters. When I want challenge, I fight mythic bosses. Couldn't care less about person I'll probably never even see killing training dummy version of same boss.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-09-06 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #866
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I seem to have forgotten to say that it was higher than previous raids

    - - - Updated - - -



    Shot design I agree
    So you're pissy because current content (at the time) dropped higher ilvl gear than old content (at the time)? Jesus...

    Did you also get pissed when SoO dropped better gear than ToT?

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    LFR can be done at any time, reasonably quickly (depending on queues) - Not at all true, its highly random wether it will take you 1 hour or 2+ for your lfr-wing.
    requires no scheduling - See my former response, it can go smooth or it can fuck your time up completely leaving you with nothing done.
    People *hugely* underestimate the time investment "necessary" to raid on higher level. - Time investment? All you gotta do is log on once and play each day. Wouldnt call that "huge time investment at all".
    Even on normal, you need a lot higher perfomance than LFR - Not true at all, you just need to do basic mechanics and know how to play your spec.
    . It's the epitome of "plug&play" experience, with the option of having something more involving if someone is into that.

    What if their schedule is too erratic for regular raiding? What if they don't feel like dealing with 9+ people? What if it's my alt and I don't feel like looking for PUG and just want to see how I do on some random boss? - If their schedule is so erratic maybe they should spend time fixing their life so they can take time to do things they like instead of messing it up even more by queueing up LFR.

    None of that matters. When I want challenge, I fight mythic bosses. Couldn't care less about person I'll probably never even see killing training dummy version of same boss. - Good for you!
    Answer is in bolded lettering.

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    Answer is in bolded lettering.
    It's not answer, it's your opinion projected to everyone.

  9. #869
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    People say excuses like "-Im this age and I have a kids and wife etc" but I have raided with plenty of people who were in similar situations and they were fine.
    Don't be silly. What works for one person isn't going to necessarily work for another person simply because both have a wife and kids. By that criterion everyone with a "wife and kids etc" would like the same flavour of ice-cream, wear exactly the same clothes, drive the same model of car, etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    queue 1.5 hours for a group where none of the tanks bothered to research tactics before hand, wipe for 2 more hours. Or be social and find a guild and overcome those obstacles with better reward in lesser time than you have to waste in LFR queues & wipes? Easy enough choice.
    The choice depends entirely on the person involved, their circumstances and their personal preferences. Shockingly people aren't all exactly the same. Who knew?

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    It makes more sense to schedule a playtime where you are more or less guaranteed to clear content than randomly choose 3 hours on a given day that you might not even clear or people will leave or what not.
    For many people, sure. For others, not really. We get it. Organised raiding works for you. Great! It also works for me. Also great! That doesn't mean it works for everyone. So instead of getting upset at LFR because you can live without it, focus on what works for you and leave LFR to those for whom it does actually work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    People do have time, they are just lazy and make terrible choices.
    You know what? Even if you're 100% correct (and you're definitely not, but even if you were), it's entirely irrelevant. It's their choice to make. It's not your place to police those choices or dictate how they should be going about enjoying their game

  10. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Goat View Post
    I'm not using phrases like "a lot of people" or "everyone" or "everybody" to support my argument. He or she is. I don't need artificial support from phantom people to back me up.

    If you'd actually read my post, this should be obvious to you as to why it's relevant and how totally wrong you are in accusing me of the same cheesy tactics to support my belief. I am human so I make mistakes, so please show me where I used a similar tactic in my post. If you read carefully, I only speak for myself.

    I haven't undermined my argument, and I challenge you to show me where I did.
    I really should not bother, since it's just the implication of your last paragraph, not an exact words used case. No, you don't say "a lot of people" or anything like that. You only speak about "people" being so passionate about it that they would take the private server risk, and that them being able to play safely implies that Classic will be a success, even using embellishing terms like "tremendous" and "immense". All I was saying is that due to that, your argument is weakened.

    That's because you cite an example, i.e. those who put truly a lot of effort into putting up those private servers etc. and designate them with "people". Then, you use "people" again when you talk about those who can play it safely now. They are both addressed the same way, which causes conflation - those passionate enough to set up private servers with those who play on them - and thus implies that they have the same passion.
    Mind you, that's not really an accusation as much as a pointing out of an issue with the argument. I know myself how easily one can just use "people" multiple times without deliberately wanting to conflate. It just happens, and it tends to take away from the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    I thought it was 1 week and classic dead. Or was 2 weeks? Or month? I dont know. What we know so far is that every single negattive predictions were all wrong.

    And lets be honest even BFA do not retain players for more than 1 month. So if 15 old game game retain players for 6 months i would give myself big slap on my face as developer.
    That's not really honest, though. BFA does and did retain players for more than one month. The numbers do drop significantly once the content is no longer new, though, but there is a sizable base still playing even after a year. Otherwise, the servers would have been shut down already.
    Being honest would be acknowledging that yes, some people said classic would be dead in a week or two. And some said classic would kill BFA in a week or two. We do know that those predictions have been wrong. We won't know how other negative predictions will hold out. But does it even matter?
    I never get this hyperbole, or the need for one side to "win". Some players will always like the older versions more. Some don't. Why not just be happy that Blizzard is currently catering to both? Classic isn't really doing it for me, since it feels so much like re-doing stuff I already did so long ago. But I don't have a need to tell everyone that Classic is bad and will be dead etc. I'm happy that others are happy, especially if it doesn't harm me or my interests. If Classic is still kicking in a year, that's great, and no one should slap themselves in the face because of that.

  11. #871
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    Answer is in bolded lettering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    LFR can be done at any time, reasonably quickly (depending on queues) - Not at all true, its highly random wether it will take you 1 hour or 2+ for your lfr-wing.
    Even if there are times that an LFR wing might take 2 hours, that doesn't invalidate the fact that it can be done in much shorter time. That being said, I have never experienced a 1-2 hour LFR wing. It's normally pretty quick with maybe a wipe or 2. The biggest potential time sink on LFR is if tanks and/or healers leave which means waiting 10 mins for replacements.

    And even if you do land up in some freak group that takes more time than you were planning, your solution is dead easy: Drop from the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    requires no scheduling - See my former response, it can go smooth or it can fuck your time up completely leaving you with nothing done.
    It still requires no scheduling. All you need to do is set aside about 45 mins and join the queue. While you wait in the queue you can get on with whatever else you want to get on with. In the unlikely event of not clearing the LFR wing successfully in the time alloted, you miss out on some rewards. It's not the end of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    People *hugely* underestimate the time investment "necessary" to raid on higher level. - Time investment? All you gotta do is log on once and play each day. Wouldnt call that "huge time investment at all".
    You're just proving his point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    What if their schedule is too erratic for regular raiding? What if they don't feel like dealing with 9+ people? What if it's my alt and I don't feel like looking for PUG and just want to see how I do on some random boss? - If their schedule is so erratic maybe they should spend time fixing their life so they can take time to do things they like instead of messing it up even more by queueing up LFR.
    What? That's crazy man

    Structuring your life around a computer game not appropriate for most adults. There are many leisure activities that we fit into our spare time that by their nature are low priority and can be shifted according how things pan out. This is true especially when other people are a factor in your life.

    Sorry, but my wife and kids are orders of magnitude more important than WoW. I cannot commit to a raid schedule that would dictate that I have to be online reliably at certain times. The best I can offer is 80% certainty. And for heroic raiding that is sufficient.

    Not that there is anything wrong with being able to schedule some time in your adult life to a hobby like WoW, but to make it a mandatory requirement to play and enjoy the game is creating an unnecessary barrier that is just daft game design.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2019-09-06 at 12:41 PM.

  12. #872
    When i was playing WoW, i was what was classed as a casual player.. Well I was married with kids and they were my full time job, so any time i had on wow, i could level and do a dungeon or two in my spare time, but i couldn't spend the time doing a raid due to having to log out after cetain times to be with my wife/kids. So I never got to experience any of the raid environments, so to me, i was missing out on a big of the game.. Missed out on the design of the raids, any cinematics...

    When LFR came, i could experience a raid but within a shorter time and could experience it.. I wasn't fussed about gaining gear, just being able to see inside raids was good enough for me..

    I've been casual for a long time, kids have grown up and spawned their own, so grandparent duties for me.. I've stopped playing it now, but was always thankful of being able to experience raid environments via LFR.

  13. #873
    I have time and time explained why LFR isnt a time-effective way of experiencing raids, but it just doesnt seem to get through so Im done here.

  14. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    People say excuses like "-Im this age and I have a kids and wife etc" but I have raided with plenty of people who were in similar situations and they were fine.
    That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

    And anecdotes are NOT evidence.

    My anecdote is that an LFR queue as dps rarely takes more than 20-30 minutes, during which I'm doing other things I'd like to do rather than standing at a raid entrance waiting for the group to be put together ... and then the actual LFR takes maybe an hour, hour and a half tops. And at a time of my choosing that's convenient for me that particular day.

    As such, LFR is a wild success for people like me. And it's staying

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    I have time and time explained why LFR isnt a time-effective way of experiencing raids, but it just doesnt seem to get through so Im done here.
    You're done here because you are flat out wrong and refuse to see the point of anyone who plays differently than you.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  15. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    LFR was not what killed the old progression system though. You can't just blame LFR for everything and expect to be taken seriously.
    You are right actually LFR was the straw that broke the camel's back and why it is so reviled but the first sin was done to the best of my knowledge in tbc with the sunwell badge vendor that was the first cheat to the old system beyond the rare raid boe.

  16. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    You're done here because you are flat out wrong and refuse to see the point of anyone who plays differently than you.
    And the same can be said for you!

  17. #877
    Once more, LFR was introduced because only a small portion of the player base actually raided

    Which means that when the stats are reported back to higher ups, someone has to explain why a feature which sees little usage gets so much resource and standing within the development of the game.

    you know, I'm almost starting to wonder if some people would rather return to the days when almost nobody raided so they can feel special at the expense of most of the player base...

  18. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    They want to be a special snowflake afking in stormwind while showin off their "hard" earned raidgear.
    I've never heard a single person who is actually a mythic/competitive raider have any issues with LFR. I've known and been in guilds with a few hundred of them since it released too.

  19. #879
    Over 9000! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Hittion View Post
    You are right actually LFR was the straw that broke the camel's back and why it is so reviled but the first sin was done to the best of my knowledge in tbc with the sunwell badge vendor that was the first cheat to the old system beyond the rare raid boe.
    You mean Arena. There is a reason why a dev jokingly referred to them as welfare epics. Gearing still has nothing to do with LFR and LFR did nothing to make it worse.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    We have..... It's not being "shredded". We've explained why. You can't just say "JuSt DoNt dO LFR!". It gives gear, and is the easiest form of the raid. People are going to do it. Players take the path of least resistance. People end up doing LFR and then can't be bothered to do Normal or Heroic.

    You're essentially saying that these players who can't be bothered to do Normal/Heroic after doing LFR desires are wrong lol.... how can anyone be so arrogant....
    Why doesn't that argument apply towards normal and heroic as well then? You can just extend it. If LFR didn't exist, do you think people would just do normal and not bother with heroic or mythic? I guess we should just get rid of every difficulty except mythic.

    Yeah, there are likely some players who chose to just do the easiest level of the raid when there were multiple options but the vast majority of people want to progress into the hardest levels. Of those who would have been interested in the first place.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •