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  1. #161
    Over 9000! Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LorDC View Post
    Please refrain from any more strawman arguments
    Gold squish wouldn't be dividing gold evenly it would be getting rid of coppers, renaming silver to copper, gold to silver and making 100 old gold into a one new gold.
    I don't think anyone would be particularly offended by that kind of squish.
    you mean you want to make the strawmen arguments yourself without competition... I can respect that.

    I'm still waiting on a reasonable reason for a level squish... but I see you wont provide one, so I'll stop expecting you to.

    Personally I'm holding out for a full wipe and restart... That should make you feel warm and fuzzy inside having gotten all the squishes you want all at once.

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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinaa View Post
    I don't think a level squish is needed. I have a feeling that most of the advocates just want the ability to level their alts faster and know that if Blizz ever did a level squish leveling speed would probably be further improved.
    Nope. I'd actually advocate for leveling taking longer overall honestly. One of the problems of 1-120 is that most those dings are meaningless. Beyond that, if they keep increasing levels, and keep reducing leveling time (like they just did by ~30% in 8.1.5) you get more and more shotgunned, unsatisfying content along the leveling road.

    Here's a way they could do a squish, not reduce the overall leveling time, and have it work - at level 10, you choose one expansion you want to level in. Not 6.

    Every 2 years they increase the amount of content, but over the game's life have reduced the amount of time it takes to level. This means you're experiencing only fragments and remnants of what once was. You're reading the first chapter of 6 different books. You've got a "full" plate with half a buffalo wing, 1 pasta noodle, the bottom bun of a sandwich, and 3 fries with no ketchup... instead of just the grilled chicken sandwich and waffle fries you remember loving back in the day. Case and point - I went to do the Cataclysm at level 80... I did the entire bracket of 80-90 just in Vashj'ir, without touching the other 4 zones.

    Make it so the quests of an entire expansion, the XP of running each dungeon, and side activities = the total XP needed for 10-60. If you don't want to do all that stuff, then feel free to hop around like you're already doing.

    Lastly, with the squish it'd be possible to offer actual rewards for each level. I've argued for a system like the Artifact Traits to be what's awarded every level... the Artifact basically functioned a bit like a talent tree - make choices on how you want to progress your character as you level, except with the key difference of when you finished, you had all the points. They can leave the talent system they're using now at 5 level breakpoints (if you rotate in the PvP slots opening, that's 11 talents), and award the Traits every level.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by LorDC View Post
    Please refrain from any more strawman arguments
    Gold squish wouldn't be dividing gold evenly it would be getting rid of coppers, renaming silver to copper, gold to silver and making 100 old gold into a one new gold.
    I don't think anyone would be particularly offended by that kind of squish.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Mechanic for soloing old content already exists. When you fight low level creatures your damage scales up a lot and damage you recieve scales down. I would only need some adjustment.

    And what exactly are those "level balancing" problems?
    World mob scaling, pvp, etc. My trust in Blizz is very low atm.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    I really think that having 16% of the leveling experience be the starting zones is pretty poor idea, though having all past expansions be treated the same for lvling would be good.
    It's not in reality 16% of it though, just the level number. Whether it's live, Classic, or anything in between - it's always much quicker to finish those first 10 levels than anything after. Even on Classic I think I can hit 10 in under 2 hours? So in reality the starting zones are more like 5% or less of the experience.

    I'd say you want new players (yes those exist, take 2 of my nieces for example after seeing WoW's #1 on Twitch) to start earning levels, getting skills, and feeling how the game works somewhat quickly, rather than drip feeding right off the bat - within the first handful of hours dipping in they can get some sense of accomplishing something and completing an area... then you receive a quest to go to your main city and some sort of board explains how expansions work (including just the regular world one you were just in), where to go to port to the beginning of one, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Having any kinda of power boost that affects max lvl content, regardless of how minor, would be a bad idea. Having it affect THAT expansion only - I.E. Completing MoP Loremaster results in a power boost ONLY in Pandaria - would be fine, and could be made quite powerful in that situation.
    I think we're agreeing there. We're already power boosting beyond gear in the last 2 xpacs with Artifacts... except they then killed the Artifact and it created the weird deal where mobs in Legion were weaker than ones in WoD to compensate for the Artifact absence in that bracket. I say don't kill the Artifact / levels / whatever it is, just quarantine it to that content specifically and you're good. Everything you worked for is still there. If you took a break and didn't work for it... oh well, you don't need it to play "Invasion of Badguys" when it launches.

  5. #165
    My concept:

    The new and final maximum level should be set to Level 100. It's a nice round number that appropriately signifies the accomplishment of reaching a maximum level. Everyone is too focused on level 60 just because it was the original max level; That seems really weird to me.

    The idea is we would level solely through the old world content of EK and Kalimdor. That leveling content would be redone once again to create an evergreen experience that stands on it's own without the influence of any particular expansion.

    At max level (100), all expansions are unlocked. And at that point, you would be able to jump into the latest expansion or visit earlier expansions for collection/completion goals. Content from each expansion would be restricted by story completion and/or item level. No more leveling.

    Another interesting twist is the fact that the story wouldn't necessarily have to be so front-loaded to prop up the leveling process. For example, what if every patch released 2-3 zones worth of content? This is opposed to how things are now where all the content drops at the beginning of the expansion and quickly get consumed with little to look forward to in the near future. Just a thought.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    I'm still waiting on a reasonable reason for a level squish... but I see you wont provide one, so I'll stop expecting you to.
    I've already stated them. And looking at how many people repeated them in one form or another both above and below my post, they are compelling for a sizable amount of players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Personally I'm holding out for a full wipe and restart... That should make you feel warm and fuzzy inside having gotten all the squishes you want all at once.
    You insist on repeating the same argument that squish somehow equals to robbing players of their achievements. In reality squish is purely cosmetic change that is more akin to changing casting animations or renewing old BG graphics. Yet you ignore the fact that even real "robs" in regard to leveling never caused much trouble in community.

  7. #167
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhodjin View Post
    Instead of a level squish how about Blizzard make 1-60 the base for all leveling? 60 is the new "max" level ALWAYS but then each expansion has their own set of levels. So once you hit level 60 you can play the newest expansion and that expansion has like "10 Legion levels" and you still need to level up in that expansion to experience it. But you could say 1-70 is the max amount of levels you will be leveling regardless of the amount of expansions coming out.

    There's obvious problems with this but i think the benefits could outweigh the negatives. What do you guys think?
    What would be the point? Leveling is dull anyway and just something you have to do for some reason. I'd rather they just removed that part, it was never fun to begin with.

  8. #168
    Over 9000! Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LorDC View Post
    I've already stated them. And looking at how many people repeated them in one form or another both above and below my post, they are compelling for a sizable amount of players.



    You insist on repeating the same argument that squish somehow equals to robbing players of their achievements. In reality squish is purely cosmetic change that is more akin to changing casting animations or renewing old BG graphics. Yet you ignore the fact that even real "robs" in regard to leveling never caused much trouble in community.
    I've read your word vomit, and sorry, I dont buy your reasons as 'reasonable'... You will have to do better.... If your 'squish' is nothing more than 'cosmetic' as you claim, then there is no reason at all to do it... I see your desperation to convert me to your side, but it really isn't going to happen. There really is nothing you can vomit to make me change my mind. So you probably just want to run along.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    Everyone is too focused on level 60 just because it was the original max level; That seems really weird to me.
    Or that...
    • It's exactly half of what we have now, making the transition easy to understand for all levels in between - what used to be something that happened at 40, now happens at 20, etc.
    • There are currently 11 talent slots (7 PvE, 4 PvP), meaning that post squish at level 10 you can hand out a reward every 5 levels, which is also a clear, measured progression instead of "you get one every 15, but then it switches to 10 for the last one, and then you get nothing for the following 20+ levels... oh and the PvP ones unlock at random points"
    • By your account, it's actually make more sense to do 50 as the "nice round number" instead of 100 because it achieves the effect of cleaner number, while compressing the reward space even further. But that means that the numbers freaks would complain that the cap would be lower than it's ever been in the history of the game. 60 is IMO the lowest you could ever get away squishing to.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    Or that...
    • It's exactly half of what we have now, making the transition easy to understand for all levels in between - what used to be something that happened at 40, now happens at 20, etc.
    • There are currently 11 talent slots (7 PvE, 4 PvP), meaning that post squish at level 10 you can hand out a reward every 5 levels, which is also a clear, measured progression instead of "you get one every 15, but then it switches to 10 for the last one, and then you get nothing for the following 20+ levels... oh and the PvP ones unlock at random points"
    • By your account, it's actually make more sense to do 50 as the "nice round number" instead of 100 because it achieves the effect of cleaner number, while compressing the reward space even further. But that means that the numbers freaks would complain that the cap would be lower than it's ever been in the history of the game. 60 is IMO the lowest you could ever get away squishing to.
    I disagree that there is a way to make the transition "easy to understand". It will be a major change to the game no matter where they set max level. Decreasing levels will be much more polarizing than the ilvl squishes of the past. And I believe that removing 20 levels will go over much smoother than 60 levels. Within the scope of my concept, your first point is diminished because the leveling process (1-100) will exist separately from any expansion. That gives you some wiggle room in the design space.

    The whole thing hinges on what happens after the levels are squished. Will they cap it like I suggest or will they continue to add 10 new levels per new expansion going forward? Adding more levels and just weaving in old expansions before level 60 would be super messy. What I am suggesting is much less jarring all together.

    Many of us would be shocked if there isn't some major changes to the talent system in the next expansion, so I wouldn't base anything around how current talent choices "fit" within any potential level squish changes. I'm personally hoping for something new that blends the concepts of the WotLK and BfA talent systems.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    I disagree that there is a way to make the transition "easy to understand". It will be a major change to the game no matter where they set max level. Decreasing levels will be much more polarizing than the ilvl squishes of the past. And I believe that removing 20 levels will go over much smoother than 60 levels. Within the scope of my concept, your first point is diminished because the leveling process (1-100) will exist separately from any expansion. That gives you some wiggle room in the design space.

    The whole thing hinges on what happens after the levels are squished. Will they cap it like I suggest or will they continue to add 10 new levels per new expansion going forward? Adding more levels and just weaving in old expansions before level 60 would be super messy. What I am suggesting is much less jarring all together.

    Many of us would be shocked if there isn't some major changes to the talent system in the next expansion, so I wouldn't base anything around how current talent choices "fit" within any potential level squish changes. I'm personally hoping for something new that blends the concepts of the WotLK and BfA talent systems.
    Sure, all compelling points. Was just pointing out there's more ground for thinking 60 is a good fit than just "60?! omg it's just like I remember!"

  12. #172
    Legendary! FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyoloco View Post
    anyone still mad there was a damage squish?
    Yes... I doubt any of us, have forgiven Blizzard for any squish made.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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