"No changes/QOL" = in denial.

[crusadernero]

whats so god damn hard about understand that people wanted to experience classic as it was? Whats so hard to understand about people actually liking it?

[khazmodan]

As someone else pointed out, this is simply naive thinking. Do you really think the people who developed BfA are going to replicate Vanilla as much as possible? If you do, please send a private message as I have a number of lovely bridges for sale around the country.

BC was the expansion that improved upon Vanilla while keeping the vast majority of the experience intact. Wrath was already deviating too much (hence, no further growth, statistically, in subs), and Cata took the trend downhill. Most of it was because of QoL improvements.

Take a hard look at BfA. That is what the constant QoL improvements got us to. Retail WoW is just an MMO...it isn't an RPG anymore. It is trying to be some hybrid Action MMO pseudo-RPG...and it fails miserably. While Legion was tolerable by virtue of Blizz at least putting in pretty good effort for that expansion, it was still a pale candle next to Wrath, much less BC.

Sorry, but only a fool would trust the current crew at Blizz to "improve" Vanilla without destroying it.

SO SO SO TRUE, #nochanges exists because there is no trust in the current developers by the millions that have quit the retail part of the game.

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I like classes being different, I like that there is a hybrid tax. Jack of all trades, master of none.

THANK YOU, so many people think that because its not the perfect little raid specialist then its just not a class to have fun with, well some people have a blast being able to be the hero savior with a well timed heal, or stun or bubble or cleanse.

[crusadernero]

SO SO SO TRUE, #nochanges exists because there is no trust in the current developers by the millions that have quit the retail part of the game.

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THANK YOU, so many people think that because its not the perfect little raid specialist then its just not a class to have fun with, well some people have a blast being able to be the hero savior with a well timed heal, or stun or bubble or cleanse.

It feels great when I meet people out in the world and I heal them up when they are close to death, help kill mob/horde and buff them up afterwards. Feels awesome!

[Granyala]

It's actually quite funny to me to hear those "No QOL changes!" also googling addons that show you quests in game on a map.

Well back then you had to use thottbot / Freier Bund (in German) or WoWhead as a website.
These days you get the package as an addon.

I don't mind reading texts, figuring out locations of quests I have forgotten etc.
Running into every building to see if there is a quest inside b/c they aren't shown on the minimap?
Fuck no, so Questie it is.

[Lochton]

= Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way. They waited an entire Xpac to bring them up to a reasonable standard. That sucks. As long as a change is done "in the spirit of Vanilla" (to burrow a phrase from the Catholic Church) then it shouldn't be controversial. And yeah, I acknowledge that Blizzard aren't Jagex in terms of their skills at communicating with the needs/wants of their player-base. I understand if someone is worried about any potential QOL changes.

RSC is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, and it's a reboot of past game version. They have still made changes, "in the spirit of 2007". This utopia nonsense over no-change has got to stop, because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.

Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

(At any rate, what do you even want? To keep playing classic as it is right now for years? Lol)

Not really denial.

People asked for vanilla. And others then wanted straight on.

Having different opinions of what classic should be is not denial.

[Big Thanks]

Not really denial.

People asked for vanilla. And others then wanted straight on.

Having different opinions of what classic should be is not denial.

LoL i think OP is the one in denial. There is no way "changes" will happen in classic.

Unless, ofcourse, Classic+ will be a reality.

[Tiwack]

And players wonder how blizzard could seemingly end up with getting everything so wrong on retail in comparison to what they started out with in vanilla. QoL =/= balance. Stop telling others how to measure up or assuming they know and understand where you're coming from. Elaborate your arguments or go home. Nobody wants yet another flamewar-thread

[Shuji V2]

Honestly, Blizzard should enforce a hybrid tax on retail wow too. Balance is boring af. Additionally, mages and rogues should NOT be able to heal themselves either.
And as a paladin, I would be totally fine with being on the bottom of the damage list knowing I bring something special to the group or enhance capabilities of those in my raid

[SirCowdog]

This is only partly true. There definitely is more interaction and sense of community in Classic atm. Of course its not as deep as when the game was fresh and new. But to say "Classic only felt like it had a community because it was new", is kinda bullshit.

No offense, but to say anything OTHER than classic felt like it has a community because it's new" is bullshit. Classic hasn't even been out a full month yet. o_O Even Blizzard expects most of the classic player to drop off soon, and we'll see how well things hold up with less players.

Now...if you meant "VANILLA" had a different sense of community, that's a different argument. In vanilla we largely just didn't know any better. Now we do.

[Lochton]

LoL i think OP is the one in denial. There is no way "changes" will happen in classic.

Unless, ofcourse, Classic+ will be a reality.

Honestly, I was more on the wagon for Classic+ than Classic..

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No offense, but to say anything OTHER than classic felt like it has a community because it's new" is bullshit. Classic hasn't even been out a full month yet. o_O Even Blizzard expects most of the classic player to drop off soon, and we'll see how well things hold up with less players.

Now...if you meant "VANILLA" had a different sense of community, that's a different argument. In vanilla we largely just didn't know any better. Now we do.

Classic having a better community than live/progression/current WoW is a bit of a joke. It has a sugar sweetened version but you still have the assholes - heck, even vanilla had the assholes, just worse now.

[Big Thanks]

Honestly, I was more on the wagon for Classic+ than Classic..

Im pro Classic+ instead of TBC and wrath servers.

Seeing the entire classic community split between 4 different games would be...stoopid imo.

[Mask]

tbh I just want void elves. It wouldn't hurt anything if alliance got void elves in classic, would it?

[SoundOfGuns]

Of course people demanded changes in 2004/5 - and got them with TBC. But Classic was supposed to bring the 1.x content, not TBC. Have patience, TBC will come soon enough and Hybrids will be viable.

Personally, i am glad they did not start with TBC, as the introduction of Belves into the Horde caused a wound to the soul of the game that has not even begun to heal 15 years later and will do even worse damage when TBC relaunches.

As for simply applying TBC talents+skills to the 1.x content....that would not work. It would require a complete retuning of everything + introduction of new gear. it would no longer be 1.x. Not even remotely.

Personally, i think you are a clown... Im dying here... "BUHHHH BLOODELVES IN MY HORDESOUP." The collective WoW-Community shat on you people back then and they will do now. No matter how loud you reee from the depths of your autistic lungs.

People like you are much more damaging to WoW and have been then... well a hell lot of things but most certainly more damaging than your Bloodelf-problem. Ignore every real issue, ignore every larger problem because you can't handle a superficial design choice. What could it possibly have done that would "wound the soul of the game"? That more people who liked pretty things joined the Horde and broke the horrible Alliance-Supremacy that was most extreme in Classic than at any other point in the 15 years the game was running? Come on, mate.

[Lochton]

Im pro Classic+ instead of TBC and wrath servers.

Seeing the entire classic community split between 4 different games would be...stoopid imo.

That is my fear. I'd rather see the servers progress than have a new version everytime.

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tbh I just want void elves. It wouldn't hurt anything if alliance got void elves in classic, would it?

Sarcasm, right?

[SoundOfGuns]

Honestly, I was more on the wagon for Classic+ than Classic..

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Classic having a better community than live/progression/current WoW is a bit of a joke. It has a sugar sweetened version but you still have the assholes - heck, even vanilla had the assholes, just worse now.

Im not sure thats the case? Maybe its a question what server you are on but it seems to me that the overall behavior is a little bit less hostile and lol-bro driven... Then again, who knows if it lasts once the nostalgia drowned out and what group of people actually stays...

[justandulas]

Disagree with you entirely about hybrid classes. I’m dungeons and dragons, hybrids are half and half. Example: a paladin is a holy warrior who isn’t as good as being a warrior as a warrior but not as good of healing as a priest. That’s how it should be, jack of all trades master of none.

A hybrid dps shouldn’t be topping a pure dps on any meter due to having other utilities

[Kyphael]

Keep Classic the way it is so the die hards' heads don't explode. You want quality of life changes? Retail is there for you.

[Outofmana]

At the end of the day you want ret palas to be viable (You have 10+ options to choose from, how hipsters still try and make a proven unviable option viable, or demand it will be, is beyond pathetic)
Joe here wants water to craft 20 instead of 10
Mr X thinks quests randomly popping up is way more interesting than the kill 10 boar static quests
Patricia thinks summoning to an instance saves her time so she can cook dinner earlier

Ask 100 more people, and then you slowly end up in BFA.

Me personally want priest/mage groupbuffs to be 2k mana instead of 3800, and a decrease of waterprice at the vendor (mostly for healers) of 50% cost, so healers in 5mans still would like a mage for water, but aren't financially rekt without one.
But, I realise that person B wants something else, and then it's best to not change anything, as who will decide what is the best change? Classic is a proven good game, no reason to start changing it. It's not a product in development so to speak, as we all know what comes out in the next 2 years, and we already know it's good.

Classic has it's flaws (well, the current one does, because of layering and batching), but it was overall an amazing game to play for most players, when you start thinkering with it, that's when you don't really know when it'll stop, or what end-product you will end up as. Can be good, can be bad, Retail always thought they were going in the 'good' direction, and look at where it end up if you look at playerbase and community. At least we know Classic is a good game, for the people playing it, OP should play retail where he can wait until his class is suddenly OP in the next patch, or unplayable.

No thanks.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Not knowing how to play a hybrid class isn't a fault of the class or it's design, it's your insistent that you have to be the best at everything you do and top the meters (which aren't native to the game in the first place).

The role of the hybrid classes are to be exactly that; doing more than one thing at once. You in a DPS role? Fine, it won't be as awesome as the single focus classes you're with, but they also can't do any spot healing or hold a stray couple of mobs that get lose and start eating the healer's face that the tank can't pick up.

It wasn't until the morons at Blizzard decided that they wanted to make the game sound like it had tons of classes and thus reclassified specs as separate classes that things went downhill for them. Now, today, the "hybrid classes" are all the power players in the game, in that they can do all of their roles just as well if not better than the "pure" classes. And THAT, my friend, is what's truly bullshit.

Translation: Stop worrying about fucking asinine damage meters and learn to play your class the way it's meant to be played. You don't want to be able to do a lot of things well but just one thing great? Then PLAY A CLASS THAT DOES IT and leave the hybrids to the players who not only get how they're intended to be played, but enjoy it as well.

Entitled fucks, I tell you...

Ideally, you would be correct. But you'd be ignorant to act like that is in any way reality, in classic or vanilla.

Whats even funnier is that (depending on who you tak to) warriors are the only real tank, and yet they also have high ceilings in DPS and PVP.. but they are a fucking hybrid.

Oh yeah, spot heal or OT? Well how is that very likely to happen? Ret Pallies are so heavy on mana, the only way I could do those things in the case of a shitty pull or something, would be to drain most of my mana doing it, and then I can just auto attack. Activating RF costs a lot of mana, and without a taunt there is no guarantee to even pull adds off the healer.

Many specs/classes feel incomplete and thats the real issue. Its great to say "ideally..." but thats not really what occurs. Hybrids don't expect to do top DPS while also spot healing and OTing ... its more that Ret Pallies have utility, but mana is such an issue that you'd have to do nothing "...just in case..."

The OP is correct, the ridiculous "no changes" crowd is just that; ridiculous. People wanted changes back then, and you can change a few things without changing the core philosophy of the game.

[Adam Jensen]

Not knowing how to play a hybrid class isn't a fault of the class or it's design, it's your insistent that you have to be the best at everything you do and top the meters (which aren't native to the game in the first place).

The role of the hybrid classes are to be exactly that; doing more than one thing at once. You in a DPS role? Fine, it won't be as awesome as the single focus classes you're with, but they also can't do any spot healing or hold a stray couple of mobs that get lose and start eating the healer's face that the tank can't pick up.

It wasn't until the morons at Blizzard decided that they wanted to make the game sound like it had tons of classes and thus reclassified specs as separate classes that things went downhill for them. Now, today, the "hybrid classes" are all the power players in the game, in that they can do all of their roles just as well if not better than the "pure" classes. And THAT, my friend, is what's truly bullshit.

Translation: Stop worrying about fucking asinine damage meters and learn to play your class the way it's meant to be played. You don't want to be able to do a lot of things well but just one thing great? Then PLAY A CLASS THAT DOES IT and leave the hybrids to the players who not only get how they're intended to be played, but enjoy it as well.

Entitled fucks, I tell you...

No one brought prot pallies for tanking.
No one brought feral druids for DPS
Ret paladins were a joke.

There was no point to even using those specs. The idea of hybrids did not work.

You generally didn't see Prot Paladins main tank raids until Wrath. I remember one forum post where they barely eeked out an Illidan kill during BC. What is the point then of a prot paladin? To tank trash? Bring another warrior and make the pally heal.

If a hybrid in a DPS roll can't do as well as "pure" DPS, then they weren't brought to raids. This is what happened. No one brought them for "spot healing" or whatever. Maybe you had that one shadow priest for Cthun for a certain role, but that was about it.

Hybrids were broken, that's why "the morons" at Blizzard fixed them.

Good lord I remember the whining prot warriors made when prot paladins became viable. Did the world end for prot warriors? No.

And yeah I'm worrying about asinine damage meters when those meters: A. affect whether or not I'll be invited to a raid and B. help me gauge if I'll be helping or hindering my raid to beat enraged timers or kill the boss before being overwhelmed by mechanics.