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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by diarx View Post
    Denial is thinking you can still change the classic we've been given with yet another nochanges/QOL thread.

    If you want ALL the QOL features, get to lvl60 on retail, then lock your XP... It's THAT simple.
    Except that it's a completely different things because of Cataclysm and other zone changes. Nice try though.

    I'm kinda in the same boat with OP. I love the world of Classic. I loved the world of Vanilla. But there were and still are some insanely stupid and tedious things in it that would be easy to fix by porting those QoL improvements from Retail. Personally I hope they will do this at some point. Classic+ would be much more interesting game than #100%nochanges.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurwi View Post
    Except that it's a completely different things because of Cataclysm and other zone changes. Nice try though.
    Cataclysm revamp was a huge QOL change, quest hubs, more flight paths, less running around.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Moor Shadows View Post
    ...because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.
    I mean, why should we trust you? People everywhere have been saying negative things about Classic. People who don't want it to succeed for fear of it impacting the Retail version of the game have prophesied its demise. What makes you any different? Because you think hybrids need a buff?

    Most hybrids that don't perform well in PvE perform extremely well in PvP. The success or failure of Classic does not hinge on hybrid classes/specs, in my opinion. If class design were to have this much influence on the overall failure or success of a game, Retail WoW would be long gone already.

    Unless you have data, I have no reason to believe you're any different than all the other people who say Classic will fail.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    We want to play the actual old school game, not a better version of it.

    Is it THAT hard to understand it??
    But your not though.

    Wait, you had 1.12 in Molten Core progress?
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moor Shadows View Post
    = Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

    No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way. They waited an entire Xpac to bring them up to a reasonable standard. That sucks. As long as a change is done "in the spirit of Vanilla" (to burrow a phrase from the Catholic Church) then it shouldn't be controversial. And yeah, I acknowledge that Blizzard aren't Jagex in terms of their skills at communicating with the needs/wants of their player-base. I understand if someone is worried about any potential QOL changes.

    RSC is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, and it's a reboot of past game version. They have still made changes, "in the spirit of 2007". This utopia nonsense over no-change has got to stop, because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.

    Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

    (At any rate, what do you even want? To keep playing classic as it is right now for years? Lol)
    The argument for "no change" is not that Classic was perfect, it's just to replay the game how it was. Yes there's terrible design everywhere in it, only idiots deny that. The true meaning of no change is playing it how it was and letting nostalgia blinded people see it for what it really was.

  6. #146
    Is there a way to ignore a thread? I wish I didn't have to see this trolling nonsense.

  7. #147
    No changes has to exist because everyone can think of 1 or 2 "minor" changes theyd like. Anything from changing how high items can stack, to dual spec, to flying mounts, to balance changes.

    If one idea gets implemented, why shouldnt the others? What makes 1 more valid than the other?

    I'm not saying classic is exactly the same as vanilla, but I'm applauding them for doing their best to keep it the same. Everyone has an idea of how the game should be, keeping it as close to how it was is the only way to keep the majority of players happy.

    For every single "qol" change you can think of, I can think of how it will affect gameplay. No matter how minor.

  8. #148
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    For every single "qol" change you can think of, I can think of how it will affect gameplay. No matter how minor.
    1. "Reset" button on Auction House
    2. Being able to choose my stack size is on the AH
    3. Search button on profession pane to navigate or filter items by mats and/or name.

    How do these affect gameplay? Mind you, all of what I am suggesting is made possible with addons anyway. But it would be nice to have them baked in.

    What people don't seem to understand that most of the QOLs requested are possible via addons already. Either remove that functionality (via addons,) altogether, or bake it into the game.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    For every single "qol" change you can think of, I can think of how it will affect gameplay. No matter how minor.
    Of course they affect gameplay, that's why people want them. If QoL changes didn't affect gameplay, what would be the point?

  10. #150
    I think about things I would like changed I would love to be a prot paladin, literally all it would take is to give them a taunt but that's not how it was in vanilla so that's not how I want it now. #noChanges
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  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeh View Post
    Is there a way to ignore a thread? I wish I didn't have to see this trolling nonsense.
    Sadly no, not even when you ignore the ninnies that make them.

    And yeah, screw the 'Classic+' nonsense. The people this was intended for didn't spend a decade asking Blizz for Vanilla+, they asked for vanilla. If you want retail features go play retail.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Moor Shadows View Post
    = Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

    No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way. They waited an entire Xpac to bring them up to a reasonable standard. That sucks. As long as a change is done "in the spirit of Vanilla" (to burrow a phrase from the Catholic Church) then it shouldn't be controversial. And yeah, I acknowledge that Blizzard aren't Jagex in terms of their skills at communicating with the needs/wants of their player-base. I understand if someone is worried about any potential QOL changes.

    RSC is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, and it's a reboot of past game version. They have still made changes, "in the spirit of 2007". This utopia nonsense over no-change has got to stop, because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.

    Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

    (At any rate, what do you even want? To keep playing classic as it is right now for years? Lol)
    Classic WoW was not made for you and other retail crybabies.

    All the changes that came in BC came because people wanted them. There are many flaws in Vanilla and most people acknowledge them. For example, the pvp system is also pretty badly designed in Vanilla.

    However, Vanilla/Classic is a great and fun game. There is no need to start changing things. Classic should be like Vanilla. Only the absolutely necessary changes should be made. There are not going to be any class balancing in Classic so you will have to wait for BC.

    Most players who cry for balancing in Classic are Retail main Ret paladins who can’t accept that their spec sucks. Just suck it up.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-09-13 at 07:43 AM.

  13. #153
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    Yeah but those changes happened and we got BC. There were still more that were wanted/needed and we got Wrath, the absolute peak of the game. While some things got better, many things got worse and as a whole, the community and gameplay ultimately went downhill overall since Wrath. It is known Khaleesi. What you want isn't Vanilla with changes, it's BC/Wrath but that's okay, I want those too.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Moor Shadows View Post
    No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way.
    How come you are completely ignoring the fact that the hybrids are the BEST at 1v1 duels?
    Shadow Priest, Resto Druid, Ret Paladin, Elemental Shaman. All top tier duelers.

    When you talk about "unacceptably bad" you are only talking about Patchwerk in Naxx in a 40 man raid? The specs are not balanced around that, thank god.

    Some specs are good for raiding, some specs are good for PvP, some specs are good for leveling. What is the problem?

    Even Rogues have to respec to PvP...

  15. #155
    I absolutly have no problem hybrids being weaker as they counter it with utility. It funny becouse what people.dont realuze when comes to hybrids is that they completly ignore their contribution to raid. If give you windfury and you start doing 200 more dps becouse of it that dmg isnt yours. It is main becouse you would never do this with out my totem. But people dont see it. They just check out dmg meter and see themself in lower sposts so class must be broken right? Stop thinking about wow as it is some cpmpettive esport game. It is not.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    so i'm in denial that i want to experience vanilla wow like it mostly was because i never got to play vanilla
    yes precisely

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    whats so god damn hard about understand that people wanted to experience classic as it was? Whats so hard to understand about people actually liking it?
    Its not hard and the people asking for changes have nothing against those who do not. The problem is you get only 1 Classic remake of vanilla - so only 1 of those camps of people will be happy. As there is only 1 Classic, the other camp will naturally ask for stuff to make them happy.

    Some people want the purest classic. Some want modern classic experience. There is nothing wrong with asking for either, but Blizzard only gives one.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by roxfm View Post
    1. "Reset" button on Auction House
    2. Being able to choose my stack size is on the AH
    3. Search button on profession pane to navigate or filter items by mats and/or name.


    How do these affect gameplay? Mind you, all of what I am suggesting is made possible with addons anyway. But it would be nice to have them baked in.


    What people don't seem to understand that most of the QOLs requested are possible via addons already. Either remove that functionality (via addons,) altogether, or bake it into the game.

    So get an addon. You dont need it cause you already have it. But if its baseline, everyone spends less time in the AH. This speeds up the economy. More time to farm mats. Prices change.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jurwi View Post
    Of course they affect gameplay, that's why people want them. If QoL changes didn't affect gameplay, what would be the point?
    My point is everyone says "let's just add this one small change, it wont affect anything." But 1 small change does cause changes to the whole system obviously. And with enough of them, you completely change the game.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Okay. Imagine the decision was made to make Ret Paladins competitive DPS. What's the solution? Is it purely numerical? Do we up values so that the numbers they put out are in line with say what a Rogue can do? Or are altering mechanics? Do we change the Seal/Judge system? Do we change thew effects of Blessings? Do we add in additional abilities to make gameplay more dynamic? How large and sweeping are these changes?

    Now, how do we compensate for the improvement? How do alter thew balance of the game to accommodate for it? Are Rogues now useless and no longer wanted? Is the game now too easy as Ret Paladins can stomp through content unchallenged?

    Part of the problem isn't just people screaming "Classic means classic! No changes!". There are very real repercussions to making changes to the game, the least of which is that one change will inevitably lead to another. And even done with the best of intentions, it could lead to a game that is very well and truly different than what Classic was meant to be.
    Pretty much the biggest change that would help all hybrids would be cost of spells and to a lesser extent, increasing the debuff limit.

    Nearly every hybrid spec suffers from mana costs with no way to gain back mana in a great way. It's why in BC the mana costs were adjusted. I wouldn't care at all if I was playing a hybrid and didn't top the meter, it just doesn't feel good to have half your mana bar gone from a single spell. Which is further compounded by the fact that the right gear doesn't exist due to how they did stat budgets in Vanilla. I've said since I started in 2005 that if they had adjusted how they do stat budges it would give for more interesting item designs. They fixed it so gear was available for each spec in BC and WOTLK, which was fine until after MoP when they went insane with Warforge and Titanforge.

    Debuff limit could easily be offset by increasing mob health in raids to compensate. Which they've done in the past without any issue...a few times due to new talent power creep being too high, because Blizzard today loves the idea of having you be a god among men even at level 1.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Its not hard and the people asking for changes have nothing against those who do not. The problem is you get only 1 Classic remake of vanilla - so only 1 of those camps of people will be happy. As there is only 1 Classic, the other camp will naturally ask for stuff to make them happy.

    Some people want the purest classic. Some want modern classic experience. There is nothing wrong with asking for either, but Blizzard only gives one.
    As they should. Modern wow is in retail. Thats what "modern classic experience" will give you.

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