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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Let's be real for a moment, the primary concern for a new feature (here class) is not something like balancing, you have enough knobs to dial that in and usually a target (max dps for this tier @Ilvl x, y and z) for that, you should be able to do that in a day. The issue is more the overall support of a feature down the line when it comes to content creation. Depending on the circumstances you need to support it with additional assets (skins, sets, quests, unique flavored abilities, etc.) which will cause additional work loads later on whenever you put in new other features and "content".

    A good example of this would be the failure of Blizzard during legion when they crapped out of the class halls during their last proper patch in 7.2 and abandoned class features for argus entirely, because they just couldn't juggle 12 class story quests and an interesting zone quest (laughable if you ask me, but that what it boils down to). Another one is classes like druids, if blizzard wanted they could find an excuse for shape shifters with every other race, but each time they implement a new druid race they need to create new forms as well. Add to that the ever increasing danger of homogenity and you have your real issues with adding a new class.
    All that, too. I just pointed out an aspect that came to mind first.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    I'm seeing lots of renewed interest in the alleged Shadowlands leak as of late, with several YouTubers including Bellular seemingly falling for the recent image of ghost ships in Stormwind Harbour. I feel like I need to point a few things out, before people start to get carried away again.

    TL;DR - the alleged Shadowlands leak is just stitching together a bunch of lore titbits, clues and dev quotes we've had over the last few years into a somewhat cohesive narrative. It's easy for any of us to do. The art offered as evidence is easy to fake, as evidenced by past years' fake logotypes and concept maps, including genuine fan work by the likes of GoldenYak and others. In addition to this, the general release window suggested by the leak, its forced inclusion of the Tinkerer class and more just seems to display a general ignorance towards the way WoW is developed.

    1. The original leak is the stereotype of fake leaks.

    The leak originated with a low-quality camera shot of a fake PowerPoint presentation, featuring a shoddy concept map and a poorly edited logo. We've been through this stuff before. From The Dark Below, to Eye of Azshara, Council of Glades, and many others.

    It usually begins with an edited logotype and concept map. Why? First of all because Blizzard tends to reveal new expansions alongside such assets, which immediately associates your work with BlizzCon and expansion announcements. That's half the work done already. You've gotten people in their right mindset. But also, it is because to a somewhat capable digital artist, those assets require the lowest amount of effort to produce. With logotypes you can just base it off of an existing logo, and concept maps can be put together in a matter of hours. All you need is Photoshop, a vivid imagination and a few Wowpedia-pages open in your browser. We have a great example of this in GoldenYak, a prominent fan expansion concept creator here on MMO-Champion who has created lots of concepts over the years. His stuff usually revolves around concept maps and logotypes to begin with, before he branches out into other things.

    Let's not even begin to discuss how silly it would be to assume that Blizzard arranged these in-house presentations in their offices around the world, months or several years in advance of an expansion announcement. What would be the point of this? Team 2, responsible for the development of WoW, is renowned for keeping its projects secret and behind closed doors.

    2. The lore associated with the Shadowlands leak ranges from credible to ridiculous.

    A few parts of the lore contained within the leak aspire to the same levels of quality that you'd expect from Blizzard. Nothing too noteworthy, but not too bad either. When seen in a neutral light and in a different context, you could easily believe some of those plot points to be true.

    For example, the struggle between Helya and the Old Gods. Sylvanas' attempts to resurrect new recruits for an army with which to take on the Void. Things like that I can take at face value, because it fits their characters and it ties in well with the overall direction the story seems to be taking recently. Both Sylvanas and Helya are fundamentally defined by the fact that they raise and care for deceased warriors, in order to use to further their own goals.

    However, there are bits that are completely implausible and downright silly as well. For example, why would the Ethereals have a big presence within the Shadowlands? Why is there a faction of Night Elves waiting for us there? Granted, lots of Night Elves perished during Battle for Azeroth. But for them to form some type of organised group within the realm of the dead makes little sense. When we've encountered elven spirits in the past, they've generally stuck around the place of their death, re-living their past lives in a sort of confused and angered state, or they've turned into wisps.

    Why would the Lich King turn up out of nowhere without any real foreshadowing, and why would the Alliance-Horde unification be torn apart just like that inside the Stormwind raid? Blizzard has been building towards that stuff.

    Notice how the leak just tosses everything in there at once, as well. Name a single thing even remotely connected to the theme of the Shadowlands or death during Legion and BfA, and you'll find a casual throwaway line in there referencing it. "Oh, and X is there to raise souls as well. And did I mention Y is there to resurrect souls of the dead? While I'm at it, let me tell you what Z has been up to..." It feels very contrived.

    3. Anybody could have stitched together an expansion's worth of somewhat credible lore based on the clues we've had from Legion and BfA so far.

    It is no secret that virtually the entire plot of Battle for Azeroth has been speculated upon and predicted by some for around three years at this point. Ever since we had the ominous taunts and whispers from Il'gynoth and Varimathras in Legion, we've had a good idea of the roles played by characters such as Magni Bronzebeard, Sylvanas, Anduin, and N'Zoth. Malfurion warned us about the incoming assault from the Old Gods, and there has been lots of dialogue data-mined throughout this expansion which has done nothing but solidify our shared belief that something big is coming up, involving many or all of the following story elements:

    • Sylvanas and Death.
    • N'Zoth, Yogg-Saron, C'thun and the Void.
    • Odyn, Helya and Queen Azshara.
    • Wrathion, the Dragon Aspects and the Dragon Isles.
    • Calia and Lightbound Undead.
    • Possibly a dead, resurrected or revamped Azeroth.
    • Assaults on one of more major settlements, including Stormwind.
    • The possibility of the return of the Lich King.
    • The list goes on...

    In short, what we've seen in the Shadowlands leak isn't revolutionary. But more importantly, it's just one possible way of piecing together the puzzle. There are lots of other ways of achieving similar results, as I will illustrate at the end of this post with a small expansion concept of my own.

    4. We (probably) still are getting a Level Squish, despite what the leak would have us believe.

    The famous questionnaire which followed months of speculation and a few interesting quotes by Ion Hazzikostas, and which ultimately confirmed to us that a level squish was in the works, made the rounds just a few short weeks prior to the first Shadowlands leak. The questionnaire was clear in its wording that a squish was coming, and yet the leak says that the squish has been postponed. To me, this really betrays the author's ignorance towards the intricate and gargantuan process that is developing and producing a game like WoW. Not only that, but the concept map is supposedly a couple of years old while the squish was still on the table a couple of months back. So does the leaker have old art assets but for some reason up-to-date information about the expansion's features?

    First of all, for a level squish to happen, it would have to have been in the planning for at least a few years at this point. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was always planned as "Part 2" of the world level scaling feature we received in Legion. Features like these are so tightly integrated to the entire game and all its systems, that it would be next to impossible to change course once you've started developing it. In this case, the level squish would have been about six months away from being announced and around 9 months away from being playable in an Alpha. It's crazy to think that Blizzard would all of a sudden just hit pause and roll back all the work they had done to this system.

    On top of that, it's quite conceivable that a level squish would come alongside another major overhaul to the game, namely a world revamp. The Shadowlands leak says there is no revamp coming in the expansion, which really puts into question why they had been developing the level squish in the first place. Quests would have to be redesigned and the general flow of levelling would need to be significantly altered for a level squish to work properly, or you would end up with a levelling experience that would either feel too slow with levels having just been taken away artificially, or too fast with the level requirement also having been changed without the regular levelling routes being updated accordingly.

    5. We (probably) still are getting a World Revamp, and here's why.

    Blizzard has been stealthily updating a ton of assets throughout Battle for Azeroth.

    The zones of Kul Tiras and Zandalar are very Azerothian in nature, in that they include a traditional desert, a jungle, mountains, snow, grasslands, swamps, forests, coasts, and so on. Most of those assets could easily be applied to the rest of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdom in a revamp, as evidenced by the updated to Arathi Basin and Arathi Highlands.

    But then you also have other assets seemingly added out of nowhere to fill in the gaps. Look at Warsong Gulch. Updated out of nowhere; one small piece of content that most people rarely experience. But ah, conveniently it contains the assets necessary to revamp the Night Elven forests around northern Kalimdor, such as Ashenvale. It also has what you'd need for an updated Barrens. We even got Nazjatar, which is a great template for parts of Vashj'ir.

    In addition to this, there are lots of other little clues here and there. It's the 15th anniversary of WoW, and WoW: Classic was just released. With TBC and WotLK likely to follow, Blizzard has effectively ensured that the old Azeroth has been preserved for years to come inside separate game clients. The door is now open for drastic changes to Azeroth in retail. Heck, there was even a new background image added to various clients the other day which featured a Wildhammer Dwarf and a Forest Troll chasing each other in what looked like the Hinterlands. The image was labelled "Rebrand", take that for what you will.

    Shortly put, a stealthy world revamp makes a lot of sense.

    6. The Shadowlands isn't a continent for us to visit, but rather a spirit-version of Azeroth.

    Without a doubt, the Shadowlands is currently important to the lore. Odyn traded his eye for the ability to gaze into the Shadowlands when he met a shadowy creature from within (oddly enough quite similar to N'Zoth's appearance from Nazjatar). Lots of people have died in BfA, so the Shadowlands is getting crowded. I'm sure we'll hear more of it in the coming years.

    However, what most people seem to be forgetting is that the Shadowlands isn't an actual place. The Shadowlands is like the Emerald Dream. In fact, if you look at the Cosmic Forces image from WoW: Chronicles, you'll see that the two are juxtaposed. Like the Emerald Dream, the Shadowlands is essentially a spirit realm layered on top of regular Azeroth. Your character goes there when it dies, and you need to corpse run back to where you died. But you never leave Azeroth or the physical place where you just stood. Consider the Emerald Dream and the locations we visited inside the Emerald Nightmare raid. We went to the Grizzly Hills, Mulgore and Un'goro. These places were affected by the Nightmare inside the dream, but they were still the same physical places. You didn't go to Emerald Dream-ville or New Dream City. It was all Azeroth, but in a different state of existence.

    Similarly, there isn't a "Shadowlands continent" for us to visit. When creatures peer out of the Shadowlands, they simply breach the veil between life and death. A spirit inside the Shadowlands will be located in Ashenvale, or Elwynn Forest, or Icecrown. Not "Xiros" or "Morbara" or "Darkfront" as the leak would have you believe.

    Now, are there gateways, portals, and points of increased spiritual activity? Sure. The Rift of Aln and the Emerald Dreamway are examples of that within the Emerald Dream. I'm sure there are similar things for the Shadowlands. Supposedly, Icecrown Citadel is one of them. But that's very different from a physical continent of zones, dungeons, raids, villages, and so on.

    7. Yes, the recent image of the ghost ships in Stormwind Harbour can be easily faked.

    Lots of people view this alleged screenshot from a cutscene as the final piece in the puzzle confirming The Shadowlands to be a real leak. But if you think about it, we've already established that the author of the leak is a somewhat capable artist since he or she was able to produce a concept map and logo. It's not at all hard to imagine that someone would go the extra mile at this point to use a few existing in-game assets and modify them and an entire scene to have it appear as new and original. People produce custom renders of their characters all of the time, this isn't new.

    8. The Tinkerer class doesn't fit the theme of the expansion.

    The new speculated class has been forced into this alleged leak in a very contrived manner. If we know one thing from past class introductions, it is that they are introduced alongside a thematically cohesive expansion where they (the class) places you right at the center of the story. See Death Knights, Monks and Demon Hunters.

    All this leak musters is a halfhearted "oh and the Tinkerers can look like the Ghost busters"-comment. What? Not only does that not come close to the type of thematic consistency you saw with Demon Hunters and the Legion, but it also makes no sense. Why would Blizzard introduce a strong class concept which is based around inventions, gizmos, explosives, machines, and turrets only to dilute that fantasy with a slight nod to the Ghost Busters franchise? And what happens after the Shadowlands is over? Do they simply remove those elements from the class to prevent that from feeling out of place?

    One could perhaps make the case that machines might be more resistant to the influence of Shadow and Death, which would make for a great weapon if that was the case. But we haven't really got any evidence to back that up, and it still wouldn't be enough to really define the class and its place within the world.

    9. The release timeframe suggested from the leak is bonkers.

    I can accept that Patch 8.3 might simply re-use assets and that it won't really introduce new lands, new ideas or people. In fact, I've speculated as much myself for a while.

    However, the release cadence of BfA so far suggests that Patch 8.2.5 will be released on or around October 8. The earliest they could announce Patch 8.3 is BlizzCon, which would imply a release date somewhere in January or February. That's around the same time we'd start to see an Alpha usually, followed five or six months later by a pre-patch with system changes leading up to the next expansion.

    What this alleged leak suggests is basically that Patch 8.3 will arrive a lot quicker than anticipated or that 9.0 will get here way sooner than expected, perhaps as early as this spring.

    Look, it's not that I want to discredit Blizzard or the pace of their development. But even without going into the whole discussion of year-ling content droughts, it still wouldn't make any practical or economical sense to release the expansion so soon. Patch 8.3 would need a few months to be tested and polished, and another few months to bask in the limelight before being replaced by the pre-patch. The leak suggests a 10 boss raid tier and (accompanying battleground) which is huge. It would have to last at least six months for it to have any meaningful impact and be worth of the development costs. It would need time to actually generate revenue through monthly subscriptions. If it arrived just before the expansion, people would abandon it too quickly and Blizzard would have already started the race against the clock for more content to keep subscribers happy.

    10. We know what Sylvanas' ultimate motive is already, and it isn't death. It's cheating death.

    Sylvanas as a character is shaped fundamentally by her quest to avoid eternal damnation. From Wrath of the Lich King to Legion, her pursuit has been one of desperation. What she fears is to cease existing, and what she wants to do is find a way to remain on Azeroth forever.

    She has her Val'kyr, and ever since she died at Icecrown, they've been her lifeline. She has died twice since getting her Val'kyr, and given how the last time cost her three of them (which left four remaining), and one additional one died at the hands of Tyrande Whisperwind at Darkshore, she now has enough left for one final resurrection. If she dies again, she is completely exposed to an eternity of nothingness.

    This brings us to Il'gynoth's whisper, "on her third death she will usher in our coming". Presumably, this means that when Sylvanas dies once more, and in so doing losing her final Val'kyr, the Old Gods will be fully set free and the Black Empire might rise again.

    This means that if Sylvanas died in a Stormwind raid, she won't join us in the Shadowlands. In fact, unlike all the rest of us, she will remain on Azeroth among the living while we are all dead, since she will have been resurrected one final time by her Val'kyr. It would seem that one of the fundamental pieces of the chess board wouldn't even be present for the event.

    Sylvanas wants to resurrect the dead, whether it be her Forsaken or herself. That's where she finds her strength. She wouldn't benefit if all the dead people got whisked away as ethereal spirits into the Shadowlands. In fact, that would go against her plan. She needs corpses.

    Finally, I offer a different version of the future which may or may not be true.

    At least it shows that there are different ways of interpreting all the rumours and lore titbits from Legion-BfA and putting it all together into a cohesive narrative. Here's what I believe might happen:

    • Yes - Death and the Shadow (Void) will be involved.
    • Yes - Sylvanas and several notable characters will be playing major parts.
    • In Patch 8.3, released in Jan-Feb of 2020, there may be an assault on Stormwind as told by Varimathras and suggested in Before the Storm.
    • Anduin may be revealed as an agent of N'Zoth (whether knowing or not) during the assault on Stormwind, and he may end up slaying Sylvanas.
    • The world might be covered in darkness, or otherwise undergo some similar type of event akin to the sword being plunged into Silithus in 7.3.5.
    • However, Azeroth will be reforged and Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms will be revamped. This is the rebirth of WoW and it means the game enters its second era. Along with it comes a level squish and an all-new levelling experience. Fully dynamic world with a living story.
    • Alpha will be released early spring, Beta late spring, and pre-patch in the summer.
    • As the expansion released, we venture to the Dragon Isles to discover the ancient powers of the Dragonsworn. The Dragon Aspects were once blessed by the Titans, against Odyn's will, to protect Azeroth from the Old Gods and other threats in their absence. Now, it is up to us.
    • With Tinkerer technology, we will delve down into the world's heart to cleanse its corruption and 'reboot' it, all the while we reclaim the surface zone-by-zone, thus unearthing revamped zones underneath the cover of darkness.
    • Junker Gnomes and Lightbound Undead or Botani for the Alliance leading up to release, and Gilgoblins or Vulpera as well as Saberon for the Horde. Later, a second wave of Allied Races begins with Wildhammer Dwarves and Forest Trolls first out of the gate.
    • The faction barrier is blurred with a peace between Horde and Alliance now in effect. Classic races can pick either faction but Allied races are locked to Horde or Alliance for now, due to the complexities it would involve in suddenly changing their introductory story and quests from Legion and BfA.
    • Odyn is probably corrupt after having been gifted sight into the Shadowlands by Yogg-Saron, and he betrays his fellow Keepers at the start of the expansion to unleash Yogg-Saron from his prison beneath Ulduar.
    • In the end, we're left with a Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms prepared for the future and many more expansions. Old expansions will be relegated to Timewalking instances so the timelines are preserved, but may return in updated form in new expansions. The Void remains a threat, but for now Azeroth is a place of adventure, where new threats emerge out of nowhere and players return to the roots.

    Boom, the Shadowlands is dead. Let it be.
    the amount of time to make this post was still shorter in comparison to the time to make that "suposed" fake leak image

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by ilgynoth View Post
    Arthas was a different person when he become the Lich King, because there were a different person in the helm of the domination already (Nerzhul and Arthas).
    Also I told you already, her death would have no effect. If she would die, she would just die. Her death is not anyhow connected to the old gods prison. Her death is not going to free every old god.

    + it was confirmed, that Sylvanas is not going to die (at least in BfA)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqhLZaFMTqk
    No one is suggesting that things are mechanically set in motion simply with her death. It's probably more along the lines of: once she has spent her Val'kyr, she will look to another lifeline. What that entails remains to be seen.

    One possible, but certainly not guaranteed, path forward could involve Odyn. Maybe Yogg-Saron really is a god of death as he claims, or perhaps he's simply the best way to defeat N'Zoth (Old Gods used to fight each other for dominance in the past). Maybe Sylvanas strikes a deal with Odyn, who is now the fifth titan Keeper watching over Yogg-Saron's prison at Ulduar, and he "turns the key" as Il'gynoth said. After all, Odyn was once visited by a shadowy creature (similar to N'Zoth as he appeared in Nazjatar) from the Shadowlands. He gave his eye in return for peering into the realm of the dead. Perhaps he learned there about the power of Yogg-Saron and succumbed to his corruption or whatever.

    This could all end up being a fight between gods for all we know. Perhaps Anduin and N'Zoth in one corner with Sylvanas and Yogg-Saron in the other. Tyrande and Elune somewhere in the middle?

    All of the above could be nonsense. But the point is that there are lots of ways for her third Death to impact events.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    It's not specified how many. I read up on it and apparently it was just a small group of Saberon that managed to weasel through the portal while it was open. Though your comment about how long it takes for them to grow is valid. We don't know that either since Blizzard doesn't specify.
    It could always be that they lead us to more of them and that is via a portal back to draenor and then The horde recruits them which I think would be great because I want the alliance to get jinyu

  5. #145
    Titan Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    So the remaining fighters on azeroth have enough time to not only save the King of gnomes but also upgrade their equipment so much let's say they combine it with the technology found in ulduar and they can stop the combined forces of all of the mini bug types which are found on each continent along with the cult members along with the twilight dragons along with the ethereals and a long with all of the void entities that we have had to fight off

    So they have enough time to build that weaponry and let's even say that the black prince is helping them and during that the lich King who last we saw is frozen in ice in the North and the queen of the valkyr who is alive at least according to what we see in game all come in and fight the void who is supposed to be using the rift lands in order to infiltrate things like the emerald dream even though avoid has already infiltrated the emerald dream and thus does not need the shadowlands to do it

    also add in the fact that the low of death who is currently the low of death as the other lowa have referred to him as so suddenly lose his title and becomes a servant to another lower who is suddenly stronger than him even though they get their power from the amount of worshippers they have

    and we are supposed to forget that the shadowlands in and of itself is supposed to be a copy of azeroth at least that is also what is shown in that screenshot while at the same time it is a completely different continent with no shared zones so does that mean that we are in a shadowlands version of azeroth until being brought to the shadowlands and why is it all of a sudden green when in the past any time that you are dead you are essentially a blue spirit

    now I'm also not going to point out that Twitter now has pictures of the mechagnomes on those ship banners instead of the shattered mask because that would kind of proved a YouTuber that said making that fix screenshot would be a lot of work wrong

    So back to the story which essentially has sylvanas dying which is the one thing that her entire character is about stopping and we are to assume that death is the enemy of the void even though it could be argued that it is undef and the reason why we are taking the fact that death and all the forces of death are enemies of the void is because of a comic in which of the void is telling her sister to kill her and not really much else other than demon saying that she's the Ally of the enemy of all things and people assuming that the third death is her even though it can fit a couple other characters now

    Now why would the lich King who is supposed to be holding back the scourge and protecting the rest of the world from it leave to go to the shadowlands

    Why would hell yeah suddenly want to help us instead of kill us since we killed her

    Why would the lich King take a side in this battle and if you try to say it's because they reveal that Talia is his daughter he has had no problem with killing a lot of people and he didn't even really care when we brought a dead Spirit to him and said that he did not want to work with sylvanas because she and dangers the balance

    so we are looking at the lich King who is one of the mighty power houses currently on azeroth deciding that he no longer cares about the balance because the only way to correct the balance is to go to stormwind find out about his daughter choose a side and then kill everyone which essentially makes him choosing a side pointless because he could have just killed everyone anyways

    We are also supposed to believe that the the characters will no longer hold a grudge against the other faction despite them just being murdered by them and we are also supposed to believe that all of the horde leaders decide to rally behind sylvanas last minute despite this entire expansion kind of being based on them slowly turning against her one by one
    Sorry you wasted your time typing all of that, but please point out where I said that this leak is 100% true. I'm merely saying that there is evidence to support some aspects of this leak, and that the Tinker aspect of the leak makes sense with what we have experienced up to this point.

    But let's throw that all out the window and say that tinkerers are the new class because even though every single last class has fit into an expansion in some way shape or form and the only argument that you can make is in the case of the monk but if you look at the lore that we had thanks to the more Walker's it explain how monks came to be so even when the game launched there was already established lore for why the monks were there and what they were doing while tinkerers are simply going to be based on technology that does not currently exist but will exist will be powerful enough to fight the old gods which is something that the current Titan technology on azeroth struggles with and will be mass-produced in a way to quickly and efficiently fight back the black empire
    Who says that the technology doesn't currently exist? Did anyone know that Mekkatorque was building a super-mech during WoD that suddenly popped up in Legion?

    Also it wouldn't be titan technology, it would be Gnome/Goblin tech powered by Azerite and probably a few weapons based on titan technology. Completely doable in Gnome and Goblin technology, and when combined with Mechagnome tech, should be even more doable.

    And this will happen very quickly because the old God will know when everyone dies so he will know when to make his move and he has someone known as the strongest sorceress on the planet as his pawn and he is just going to wait around until the leader of the goblins who is not tech savvy at all find a way to revive the leader of the gnomes who is extremely brilliant but is likely not smarter then the creator of the mechagnomes and will managed to perfect this technology and win the war

    Yeah I don't see about a hundred plot holes with that at all
    Where did I say they alone would win the war? I said "buying time for everyone else". It's perfectly feasible that the combined efforts of the Gnomes, Goblins, and Mechagnomes could help stave off N'Zoth and Azshara until the Horde and Alliance get out of the Shadowlands. Additionally, who says that those forces would be acting alone? The Dragons could very well be involved along with Horde and Alliance forces that didn't die in Stormwind.
    My comic series inspired by WoW and MMOs:

    Tinker Class Concept 2018 Dragonsworn Class Concept 2019

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Art the Clown View Post
    Just watched Bellular's new video and I think he would disagree.

    Belular is also the guy who -keeps- bringing up a false lore bit he made up, where "we introduced the void to the emerald dream and you can see it in that cave at the end of the raid", when in fact, that void flower is "all that remains" of the emerald nightmare; the seed that yogg-saron planted so long ago.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Art the Clown View Post
    Just watched Bellular's new video and I think he would disagree.

    Wasn't he also super sure about a Dark Beyond expansion and then it turned out to be COMPLETELY false?

  8. #148
    Pandaren Monk shade3891's Avatar
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    Lol I expect an apology that long if it turns out you were wrong )

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    So far every single new class in the game has been DEEPLY connected with the theme of the entire expansion.

    DKs came out in an undead themed expansion. It made a lot of sense there.

    Monks came out during a Pandaren/Asian themed expansion. It made a lot of sense there.

    DH came out during the Burning Legion expansion. It made a lot of sense there.


    Tinkerers have NOTHING to do with an Old Gods/Void/Undeath expansion. They'd just be an afterthought class that Blizz would add just because they want to. If they were to add a new class for a SHADOWLANDS expansion, it would most certainly be one that is deeply connected with the Void or Old Gods.
    To be fair, they don't have to follow the same thing.

  10. #150
    I like a lot the idea about a shadow lands expansion.If the leak is truthful that would be great,because Blizzard finally will have the balls to deliver something unexpected.I like the fоllowing ideas:
    1.Storm wind as last raid instead of Thunder Bluff.
    2.Shadow corrupted Anduin being cleansed by Wrathion.
    3.Bolvar killing everyone by coming to Storm wind
    4.More about Blomsandi and Xakar
    5.Xelia and Sylvanas deal.

    If Blizzard are planning something of this scale then i'm supporting them.I like it a lot.Shadow lands being the next expansion is awesome.I really wish Blizzard to do a 180 degree turn with everyone's expectations.Would be mind blowing.

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    Shadow lands Soon™

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scvd View Post
    To be fair, they don't have to follow the same thing.
    You have awesome Avatar.One of my favourite mangas.
    Last edited by dragnipur; 2019-09-10 at 01:07 PM.
    It begins with absence and desire.It begins with blood and fear.It begins with....

  11. #151
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    2. The lore associated with the Shadowlands leak ranges from credible to ridiculous.
    This is a point against? Remember when WoD leaked and nobody thought it was real because of how ridiculous of a premise "Garrosh goes back in time" was?
    Have you played this game?
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    Things...
    Just out of curiosity, why make a burner account for this topic? Just use your main.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." ~Elbert Hubbard

  13. #153
    Wow, that's some effort just to say you don't like the leak.

    Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. Your guess is as good as anyone else's. It's just a pity you wasted so much to create a thread that is essentially pointless.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    !
    Thank you. Basically what I was thinking but was too busy to write it down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Am I really supposed to read all that.
    He does a fine analysis of a lot of things. It's an interesting read. Either read it or keep your laziness away from the comment section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frood View Post
    Why don't you post in one of the existing threads, my dude
    Because you can't tackle 20 threads with a single comment that will get lost in one of them.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    This is a point against? Remember when WoD leaked and nobody thought it was real because of how ridiculous of a premise "Garrosh goes back in time" was?
    Have you played this game?
    Garrosh going back in time may have sounded ridiculuos but at least made sense in a grander scheme of things. Villain going back in time to get revenge on heroes who defeated him? Almost classic plot move.
    Info about Stormwind raid on the other hand is just complete WAT? Why the hell all this shit happens the way it does?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokesTooMuch View Post
    Just out of curiosity, why make a burner account for this topic? Just use your main.
    This is my only account. I used to have a permanent one years ago, dating back to 2009 or 2010 I think. But I deleted it. Then I created a new account for the announcement of BfA, and now this one for the announcement of 9.0. I just can't stay out of the debate once leak season heats up. Speculating future content is a lot of fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Wow, that's some effort just to say you don't like the leak.

    Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. Your guess is as good as anyone else's. It's just a pity you wasted so much to create a thread that is essentially pointless.
    All I'm saying is that the alleged leak is far from water proof. In fact, if held to the normal amounts of scrutiny, it looks rather implausible. But for some reason people choose to believe it.

  17. #157
    Scarab Lord TriHard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    The tinkers thing is just completely out of place especially considering we have Shamans and Death Knights already who can enter and leave the Shadowlands.

    A necromancer or soulbinder or something of that nature would make way more sense since we've seen NPCs of those classes also enter/leave the Shadowlands.
    This is what I think too, Tinkers for a death-themed expansion just never made sense to me. While it would be cool, Necromancer is far more likely to fit in, people can bitch and moan about it being similar to the Death Knight but that is the same dumbass NA brain excuse they used for Warlocks and DHs.

    The new classes HAVE ALWAYS fit in with the narrative of the new expansion this will also be the case moving forward.

  18. #158
    Bravo to the OP for a thoughtful and really fascinating post.

  19. #159
    High Overlord ShadeknightX's Avatar
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    One thing to point out about this whole leak.....it's whole premise is built is that Sylvanas somehow would accept her death and get into the shadowland...along all other parties involved.....that just can't be.

    Sylvanas HATES the idea of dying again, cause if she did she isn't going to an acceptable place....from the short story about her in Icecrown

    In the grand landscape of all the world's suffering and all the evils of the infinite, the Lich King was… insignificant.

    Now the others had her. Surrounded her. Gleeful, tormenting, tearing at her consciousness, delighting in her suffering.

    Horror.

    This was to be her eternity: the endless void, the dark, unknown realm of anguish.
    She accepted the pact with the Valkyrie, so she would not die.....she made a pact with Helya to create more to serve her, so she would not die.....she only got like 2 now?....do you really believe she wouldn't use them to survive this whole plot in SW?

    Forget all of that, even if she dies, she has been shown to go to a place other than the shadow lands, a more sinister and dark realm, in which fear of it was ingrained in her.......she is not going to be on the same spirit/death realm others are in?
    The first, last and only warning to get from me...Mock me once I will Backstab you...Mock me twice I will Mutilate thee....Mock me thrice I will go ******* killing spree on you......Have Fun.

  20. #160
    The only reason I'd rate the Shadowlands leak as fake is that it's too detailed and elaborate for this point in time. The content and everything else in that leak is 100% Blizzard.
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