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  1. #341
    Classic raiding was raiding in its infancy and today's raids are far harder, but raiding is not the entire game. World content, elite mobs, and even normal mobs can kill you making world content much harder and more enjoyable in my opinion.

    I love raiding on live and it is far harder than older content (for the mos part). However there is nothing that can kill my rogue in the open world (minus the world bosses, but those are raids). I can't remember the last time I died. I can pull countless mobs and drop them in seconds. There is no quest mob, elite or otherwise, that can hurt me. The gold world quest mobs in Nazjatar are the "hardest" and they still fall over pretty quick with a couple cds.

    So, yes Classic raids and dungeon bosses are cake, but trash and world mobs are much tougher relative to our characters.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post

    So then explain why they do "hit harder" in Mythic, if it's irrelevant.
    Firstly because i am getting your point but you arent 100% wrong, but more like 90% wrong.

    Things scale because this is the game design concept, its Western MMO genre, things gets stronger, not harder as gear progresses otherwise they are irrelevant.

    Just because a Mythic boss auto-attacks 20% stronger on Mythic than HC, doesnt make it hard, for a decent tank is close to irrelevant, the difficulty of the Mythic boss comes from the mechanics lining up and how people will deal with them.

    And the extra mechanics/phases added on top of that.

    The hint is above, at the "lining up", many bosses are simply 2-3 moments of mechanic line ups that need be to countered, for a seasoned raider, this is obvious, for some people it is not.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    No, it simply fits your narrative and shows your complete lack of knowledge about the game.

    Classic and "Retail" are two completely different games.

    Retail becomes difficult at the higher end of content, M+16-18 and up, Mythic raiding progression the first month or two before the scaling and nerfbats, and even then in its majority Mythic raiding isnt hard, its hard for the others in the raid to not fuck up, a different person each time.

    And thats "difficult" on what - I consider- will actually require extra effort for me, other than slump in the chair and play as i always do.

    For others, M0 dungeons are "Hard" and "WTF how do i do them".

    Classic is literally neither, there is nothing, anywhere, unless as i said above, you are missing both hands, and your head.

    Dont try comparing games when you cant obviously play both at any appropriate level to be allowed to have an opinion about them.
    Exactly my point. It is only harder in high end of content and that's okay if that's what you like. But for some other players who like leveling, well, here's a fact: Classic is harder. Again, it's not a hard game, but it does everything better than retail in that category. We're all here discussing this topic, but you want to know why people are playing Classic at the moment? It's because leveling up a character here is more interesting than it is on retail. Once they'll reach the end game content, they'll go back to retail because it is harder, but meanwhile, Classic gives them a little bit of difficulty in a different aspect of the game, weither you like or not.

    Personally, I'm stuck between the two. I like BFA's challenging endgame but it offers absolutely zero challenge outside of mythic. Classic is a little harder for the rest of the content but is behind when it comes to end game. My only expectation is that Classic shows to Blizzard that challenging content outside raids is not only good but a necessity.

    And please quit it with your retarded taunts about other players skills because if anything, your way of talking only shows that you barely have the intellectual level to do LFR. You want to prove your point, step up your arguments instead of the number of childish insults.
    Last edited by Loeko; 2019-09-11 at 10:19 AM.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    To go along with retail power progression gear wise, since Mythic difficulty doesnt come from numbers tuning like classic, it comes from the extra Mythic only mechanics the encounter has (in case you missed the part where mythic bosses DO have extra mechanics).
    And you must be missing the part where those extra mechanics would be meaningless if they didn't hit hard enough.

    Numbers tuning is the base of difficulty settings in any game that has them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Just because a Mythic boss auto-attacks 20% stronger on Mythic than HC, doesnt make it hard
    It doesn't necessarily make it hard, no. But it makes it harder.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Loeko View Post

    And please quit it with your retarded taunts about other players skills because if anything, your way of talking only shows that you barely have the intellectual level to do LFR. You want to prove your point, step up your arguments instead of the number of childish insults.
    This is mmo-champion.

    You are trying to convince me that somehow leveling, and leveling in Classic particular is an enjoyable concept, for me you are in the same category intellectually as a flat earther if you truly believe that.

    If you cant understand that , let me help you out, maybe its a superiority complex, maybe its something else, but its who i am, asshole? Sure, call it whatever fits your narrative.

    Quantum Physics is hard.

    Walking 10 minutes on your hands is hard.

    Claiming Classic is enjoyable because -you- and a few others flat earther level players consider it hard? or harder? No, sorry, it is not.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    And you must be missing the part where those extra mechanics would be meaningless if they didn't hit hard enough.

    Numbers tuning is the base of difficulty settings in any game that has them.
    No? you need to change the strats completely on mythic thanks to those extra mechanics, the dmg they do is w/e, if you actually raided on a cutting edge lvl you would know this.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    This is mmo-champion.

    You are trying to convince me that somehow leveling, and leveling in Classic particular is an enjoyable concept, for me you are in the same category intellectually as a flat earther if you truly believe that.

    If you cant understand that , let me help you out, maybe its a superiority complex, maybe its something else, but its who i am, asshole? Sure, call it whatever fits your narrative.

    Quantum Physics is hard.

    Walking 10 minutes on your hands is hard.

    Claiming Classic is enjoyable because -you- and a few others flat earther level players consider it hard? No, sorry, it is not.
    What's with your tone? lol You problably need help.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2019-09-11 at 10:24 AM.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    I know what Blizzard did bro, the problem is the players that never understood the changes was for them and cry about it.

    And its exactly what happened, Ghostcrawler literally said this and it is being quoted since then.

    The majority, to disgusting % levels, quits the game rather than trying to improve, so they stopped trying to make them improve and they added the lower difficulties.
    It's a video game, buddy. Your elitism just makes you look like a petulant loser.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    No? you need to change the strats completely on mythic thanks to those extra mechanics, the dmg they do is w/e, if you actually raided on a cutting edge lvl you would know this.
    I mean he is not wrong. Number tuning is the base of difficulty design. If a boss hit for 50% of tank's hp then that has to be taken into account with how to do with other surrounding mechanics too.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    This is mmo-champion.

    You are trying to convince me that somehow leveling, and leveling in Classic particular is an enjoyable concept, for me you are in the same category intellectually as a flat earther if you truly believe that.

    If you cant understand that , let me help you out, maybe its a superiority complex, maybe its something else, but its who i am, asshole? Sure, call it whatever fits your narrative.

    Quantum Physics is hard.

    Walking 10 minutes on your hands is hard.

    Claiming Classic is enjoyable because -you- and a few others flat earther level players consider it hard? or harder? No, sorry, it is not.
    And here it is. Another leveling hater. My bad, I thought I was talking with someone who likes RPGs here. That was my misunderstanding.
    But you brushed up your game. Now, liking leveling = being a flat earther. Way to go bro. You totally look like you won this debate

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    What's with your tone? lol
    Exhaustion of how terrible people are at this simple game, mostly caused by my choice of playing with IRL friends/family that are better than the average WoW player but at the same time so damn slow and horrible at times than need to be reminded weekly, bi-weekly how to do things.

    And at the same time the occasional playing with the better players and how trivial things actually are when i play with people at a higher level that dont forget basic things.

    But friends and gf is more important to keep close than playing the game to a higher level at this point in life.

    But reading the stupid shit on here based on half-baked knowledge and more importantly lack of skill, triggers me lately, no idea why.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Exhaustion of how terrible people are at this simple game, mostly caused by my choice of playing with IRL friends/family that are better than the average WoW player but at the same time so damn slow and horrible at times than need to be reminded weekly, bi-weekly how to do things.

    And at the same time the occasional playing with the better players and how trivial things actually are when i play with people at a higher level that dont forget basic things.
    Seek help dude.

  13. #353
    Vanilla WAS harder, but it's not hard anymore.

    if that makes sense.

    Hard is rather subjective.

    I think the playerbase improved WAY more than the game's difficulty (even if that has also improved a lot)

    so I think comparatively vanilla WAS harder than BFA in general.

    so the game is easier to someone now, than it was to someone 15 years ago, but vanilla now is a lot easier than BFA now. we just improved too much.

    it also depends on what you compare it to?
    normal raids? HC raids? mythic raids?

    cos it was never really harder than mythic raids even comparatively (maybe except for a couple AQ/naxx bosses) but that's such a small part of the game that I dont think it's a fair comparison.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Seek help dude.
    I am perfectly fine bro, trust me.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    No? you need to change the strats completely on mythic thanks to those extra mechanics, the dmg they do is w/e, if you actually raided on a cutting edge lvl you would know this.
    You must be misunderstanding. Look at Heroic. There are mechanics that you need to deal with. Easier than Mythic for sure, often different strats yes, but still it requires strats to deal with those mechanics.

    Now look at LFR. Many of those mechanics are still there (not in every boss, but used to be the case). And yet it in many cases it requres no strats because those mechanics are harmless in LFR because of numbers tuning.

    Hell, get a 20 lvl120 people and go to a Mythic Legion raid. The majority of the fights aren't gonna be hard, despite the mechanics still being there, because your character is much more powerful.


    I'm not saying the mechanics are not a big part of what makes Mythic raiding harder, I'm saying numbers tuning are a big part of it as well, and in games in general.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    No, it simply fits your narrative and shows your complete lack of knowledge about the game.

    Classic and "Retail" are two completely different games.

    Retail becomes difficult at the higher end of content, M+16-18 and up, Mythic raiding progression the first month or two before the scaling and nerfbats, and even then in its majority Mythic raiding isnt hard, its hard for the others in the raid to not fuck up, a different person each time.

    And thats "difficult" on what - I consider- will actually require extra effort for me, other than slump in the chair and play as i always do.

    For others, M0 dungeons are "Hard" and "WTF how do i do them".

    Classic is literally neither, there is nothing, anywhere, unless as i said above, you are missing both hands, and your head.

    Dont try comparing games when you cant obviously play both at any appropriate level to be allowed to have an opinion about them.
    I'm not interested in playing higher difficulty levels of content that I already facerolled on easier difficulties. That's not what a lot of us want from an MMO.

    It's starting to become really clear that an unhealthy amount of your identity is tied up on your ability to complete "challenging" content in this silly video game, and that is why this is upsetting you so much.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Loeko View Post
    And here it is. Another leveling hater. My bad, I thought I was talking with someone who likes RPGs here. That was my misunderstanding.
    But you brushed up your game. Now, liking leveling = being a flat earther. Way to go bro. You totally look like you won this debate
    What? I love leveling in games that actually have it as a thing, you know, Dragon Age? Divinity maybe? Baldurs Gate? Neverwinter Nights? GW2?

    WoW is all about the end game, it always was.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Exhaustion of how terrible people are at this simple game, mostly caused by my choice of playing with IRL friends/family that are better than the average WoW player but at the same time so damn slow and horrible at times than need to be reminded weekly, bi-weekly how to do things.

    And at the same time the occasional playing with the better players and how trivial things actually are when i play with people at a higher level that dont forget basic things.

    But friends and gf is more important to keep close than playing the game to a higher level at this point in life.

    But reading the stupid shit on here based on half-baked knowledge and more importantly lack of skill, triggers me lately, no idea why.
    It triggers you because you have clearly tied up waaaaay too much of your identity in your perceived elite status in a silly video game about space goats and goblins.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    I am perfectly fine bro, trust me.
    You certainly are not evidently by the fact that people enjoying something you don't somehow trigger you to this extent.

  20. #360
    1.11 client versus 1.0 client content with 15 years of experience and exploiting. Totally fair comparison.

    But let's see people steamroll the next raids. Hopefully without exploiting but we all know that's impossible with the world race community.

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