Can we all now agree that Vanilla wasn't harder?

[Ymeister19]

Seeing post like this over and over is getting old. The game being harder back then is relative to the tools the player base had access to.

The game these days is a science, new tactics have been developed, more information is available, and the player base as a whole is much more well informed. Its like looking at something like fishing (IRL). Fundamentally fishing is still the same activity as it was 50 years ago. You go to a lake, you cast a line, you repeat till you catch something. But now there is new technology, fish finders, baits, line, tactics. Over the last 50 years fisherman have developed new techniques and technology and found things that work far better than what they had 50 years ago.

That is what has happened to classic. Yes it was difficult in 2004. The game then was every bit as difficult as the game is now. Is classic now as difficult as retail now? Nope. If i gave you all the fishing technology and tactics we have today back in 1920 would it have seemed much easier? Of course it would. This literally applies to everything in the world.

Over time everything that was once hard becomes easy. That is the way life works folks. Not just in WOW but in everything. Fifteen years from now people will look back on BFA and say "The game was so much harder then" and they wont be wrong, they will just be right and not understand why they are right.

[Mrbleedinggums]

Do you live in a cave? Are you unaware of the success that is WoW Classic? I pity you for having access to so many resources and using it to project your denial onto a forum instead.

Nice troll/throwaway account. Were you banned and so you felt the need to circumvent your ban?

Watch as Vanilla implodes within a few months, it'll be just like Starcraft. Sure, you'll have the diehards still playing it like any other game but it will go like WildStar in the end.

[c2dholla619]

back then players didnt kno what the boss was going to do next because it was all new now we have almost 20yrs worth of info gathered on these bosses. we kno when the big bad is going to do his big attack so we can pop cd accordingly, while we were learning all this during the fight because we were seeing it for the first time. im not a fan of the "well the players base is so much better then they were back then" nonsense everyone is repeating, have you seen LFR them dude are awful, i see no improvement from the masses when compared to vanilla or tbc. even in some of the more hardcore playerbase if you remove DBM just watch as the amount of ppl who completes thing drops drastically.

another thing is very few ppl are 60 right now and the one who are 60 are private server ppl or the hardcore. lets ask this question when the masses reach 60 lmfao

are the dung harder then retail = yes
are the raid harder then retail = no (MC was a easier raid even in vanilla after we had info on it, wait till naxx or something other then mc.

[Alphatorg]

Imagine if Blizzard made the loading screen last three hours. How delightfully hard a game we could have.

[phattsao]

I can agree that CLASSIC isn't harder. But this isn't vanilla. Bugged raid EXP. Demo shout bugged. AOE farming every instance. MC clearly undertuned.
Hopefully they really dive in and fix this before BWL.

[Milfshaked]

You people want to hate eachother, so why even mask it behind a debate. Just go make some actual hate threads and get it done with. Preferably make a hate thread subforum so I can just unfilter it.

You should probably join that sub yourself. Your entire post reeks of insults and strawmans.

[Caperfin]

I can agree that CLASSIC isn't harder. But this isn't vanilla. Bugged raid EXP. Demo shout bugged. AOE farming every instance. MC clearly undertuned.
Hopefully they really dive in and fix this before BWL.

I hope they do something soon.

[erifwodahs]

Classic haters saying that vanilla was never hard are like saying lighting a fire is very easy. Well, not 15k years ago.
Retail haters saying that current wow is ez are like those "I am IT man" but only knows how to rewrite OS on a laptop.

[Caperfin]

are the dung harder then retail = yes
are the raid harder then retail = no (MC was a easier raid even in vanilla after we had info on it, wait till naxx or something other then mc.

classic dungeons are not harder then retail, even for new players, they have access to +15 years of guides to help them all the while Retail keeps releasing new content. With each subsequent day classic gets easier and easier. Naxx's difficulty is greatly exaggerated. I'd say AQ and Nax are the moments when it's required for you to read up on your class.

[Akka]

Its all ego, nothing is objective in these debates.

It's not because a number of people act like that, that everyone does. The problem is when actual arguments are lost into the sea of bullshit thrown by people with agenda.

[Celarent]

I provided the facts in the part of the quote you conveniently omitted. Guess it says it all.

This or that specific mechanical difference doesn't add up to overall difficulty -- to the extent where players return to BC and say, "Yeah, threat and mana aren't that hard to figure out now that we all know how to play," just as happened with Vanilla. We can lay aside "nostalgia" and go with "misremembering." I was being discreet.

I'm banging my favorite Cataclysm-was-bad-for-business drum, but as I said, the revelation of Vanilla puts "We earned in BC" on the witness stand.

[Visor]

Too bad i cant react with twitch emotes to this, cause this deserves a LUL and LULW spam.

I did 3 cutting edge with randoms. Nothing special. Ofc it was closer to the end of season. But it was anyway much faster than you can do something similar in classic.

I guess it's time to use the "but only 1% of people do mythic" excuse ... even though there's almost 5k guilds, so around 100k people. Not so insignificant, as it turns out.
Yeah, I remember all those Mythic Uu'nat pugs spamming LFM in /general. Blizzard should really do something about it, these end bosses are far too easy, nothing like Classic. And just look at all those Azshara kills - 100 out of 120+ is just random pugs. What a disgrace.

I love when ppl talking exclusively about jobless jerks. Who are below 1% of population. 99% of community dont rly care about them lol. Some ppl have some kind of real life. Job, girlfriends, wifes and even kids. They are simply don't want to waste so much time just to close content faster than this jobless kids. Ppl can raid 2 days per week and close content in time. And spend overall much less time than Methods and others. And do something else. You are jobless kid with good spinal reflex? Well you have all chances to be in top 100 guild like any other persons with similar condition. But in classic this ppl mostly worthless. Because classic not about spinal reflex.

[ihate2beapessimist]

You might as well say that 3rd grade wasnt harder than 12th grade, because look at how easy it was!
It wasnt easy for everyone at the time, some people caught on quick and breezed through 3rd grade. Others struggled.
Same with Vanilla vs later expacs.

[KaPe]

I did 3 cutting edge with randoms. Nothing special. Ofc it was closer to the end of season. But it was anyway much faster than you can do something similar in classic.

You did "ahead of the curve", at best. Unless said "random" were alts of top guild and they decided to take you with them for some reason - probably a lot of gold. People don't pug mythic end bosses, unless it's some absurd outlier like Xavius. Seeing "random" people pug mythic Mekkatorque would be a laugh. Replace him with Za'qul... or just Ashvane for current tier.

I love when ppl talking exclusively about jobless jerks. Who are below 1% of population.

If 100k people are 1% of population, then retail is looking pretty healthy. If you only mean Cutting Edge, then that's 1000+ guilds every tier (except Uu'nat), so again, a decent amount. And according to you, any random pug can do the same, so it's even more people.

Plus the only jerk here is you, insulting people who very well may be raiding 6 hours a week, which is far from "jobless". And even hardcore raiding schedule usually only involves evenings, which doesn't conflict with usual work time. World best guild are another thing, sure, but that's like 100 people in the world, a miniscule amount that doesn't affect anything.

[david0925]

most "casuals" play as much, if not more than "hardcore" anyway. They just don't want to/can't play in a organized manner.

I've raided with plenty of good raid-loggers. Sure, their artifact was never high, but for a guild that's just making CE 3-4 weeks before cutoff raiding 6-8 hours a week that's good enough for me.

[arkanon]

Only harder part of retail is mythic raids lold. Obviously classic raids are harder than lfr or normal difficulties in retail. it all depends are you comparing classic raids to mythics or heroic or what. There was no such a thing in vanilla so what is your point?

Wtf are you talking about? They are below lfr difficulty. They can be cleared with half a raid, and with ppl who are not even max level yet. Seriously you are completely delusional if you honestly believe this.

This is such a dishonest thing to say - the point is obvious to anyone with no bias - we are comparing like for like - the hardest content in vanilla vs the hardest content in retail. Why are we doing it this way? Because the discussion is about difficulty, and which has the harder content. You are the one bringing up lfr and normal pretending like they are the standard by which "hardest content" should be measured.

On par with heroic raids? GTFO here with that utter garbage. Like for like - mythic raid vs vanilla 40man content. They didn't start with lfr and then add harder and harder raids. They started with normal, which became heroic, when they added flex and lfr. Those difficulties were added for vanilla raiders who couldn't cut it in the modern game because raiding had evolved far beyond what they could manage.

Tldr LFR was added for vanilla raiders who couldn't handle the modern games massively increased difficulty, and felt left out. They wanted their easymode / story mode raiding back, and they got that with lfr.

[Beerbill Society]

You either really bad yourself or you run with really bad groups.

not at all, i just dont pretend to be a toxic elitist in these forums :3

[Warning]

Classic is an extremely casual game that imo is best enjoyed in a chill way chatting with your party. I've noticed there's a couple of people (more at max level) that seem extremely tryhard about it despite that fact (from experience its mostly pserver people) these will actively try to backseat game you at times trying to dictate how you play or what to roll on even though most of the time they're actually inferior players. Ignore those players and enjoy vanilla and the low difficulty isn't an issue but probably a boon to the social experience.

[The-loon]

You seriously think that people having a few more stats on their gear is a larger contribution than bugged dungeons causing people to level way faster?

Fuckin' lulz m8

good bait, 10/10 got me to reply

Can you read yet? I said all of those things were contributors... YIKES.

Also TIL spell casters having 300% more Spellpower = "few more stats on gear"

[Monteverdi]

Vanilla was never hard from a complexity/execution standpoint. The hurdles in vanilla were accessibility and experience/knowledge. The knowledge bit we have now, and that can't be unlearned, but the accessibility issues, while maybe being a conventionally bad choice as far as game design goes, gives the world a much larger, epic, and immersive feel.