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  1. #121
    Bloodsail Admiral Animalhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alempa View Post
    Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


    But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
    Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


    Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.
    I have not seen a single person say vanilla raids were harder.
    If there was than they are like .000001% of pro classic players.

    No, this just a fallacy being pushed by the anti-classic crowd and is a BS made up argument to justify their misplaced contempt.
    “We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.”

  2. #122
    Not harder than high mythic +, but that's never been proposed. Harder than 90% of dungeons being run? Absolutely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    The AR- 14 or 15 is a good home defense weapon.

  3. #123
    Well, after we agree that classic was not harder, next we should also agree it wasnt better than retail.

    It just needed a lot more time.
    Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    It's only harder in that levelling content gives you groups of mobs, and there's no way to safely pull them if you're on your own. Sure, you might be able to CC one. If it doesn't resist. And then doesn't break out for no reason.

    You can't just plough into a group and expect to live. That's the main difference.
    Actually you can do safe pulls even if you agro 5 mobs with a range ability. Pull, run , hit from time to time the needed mob. Rest mobs will reset quite fast.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    Yes, heroics were a little damaging, and that was also until tanks were in full t4 or higher, then cc once again didn't matter. Except for some parts of mgt
    True! I remember Heroic MGT was a nightmare without CC's (for the groups I ran with anyway).

  6. #126
    Honestly I played vanilla and I am playing classic again and after doing mythic raiding and high keys, I would describe the difference as apples to oranges. What makes classic "hard" is the sheer amount of grinding and lack of gear. But now we have all this gear and complex stat requirements so the dungeons and raids seem easy because we all learned how to gear up quickly. We are doing raids at 15-30 ilvls higher than what they are built for. In example a +15 is trivial if you give your team all 460 ilvl gear.
    Whereas in vanilla you didn't have that gear in "harder" dungeons and raids.

    Tldr, harder to get gear in vanilla, but otherwise not hard at all

  7. #127
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    So... you are comparing low level Classic dungeons with Mythic+ dungeons? Because I seriously doubt you have run any of the higher dungeons yourself.

    Sounds reason enough to call Classic harder. But I agree... it is likely that Deadmines is easier than say any Level 120 Mythic+10


    All funnin' aside... No... Classic isn't "harder".. it's different. But most importantly... Classic dungeons are FUN and are a part of a living, breathing Azeroth. And that is really all that maters. I find no MMO satisfaction in repeating dungeons in ever increasing difficulty with artificial difficulty affixes. What does any of that have to do with the World of Warcraft? I dunno.. just not my thing.
    You must be smoking some serious stuff if you think that deadmines is even remotely close to anythin in bfa, esspecially m10+.

    But of course you think like that. You would be praising a literal pile of shit if it were part of classic.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikah View Post
    Define harder? Let's ignore time for the sake of the argument, as I agree with you that time invested has nothing to do with how hard it is.


    Harder means chances of dying perhaps? Then yes, leveling up in Classic is much harder. No matter how careful you are, you will die questing, overpulling, being distracted, underestimating a quest boss, autorun past Stitches, etc... At least I have died several times already. In retail, you can pull 8 mobs, a rare and a quest boss, close your eyes, faceroll your keyboard and you will still be alive with 90% of your hp.


    PVP? Try to finish up some quests in STV... it is legendary! Between the ganking, tagging mobs and the competition, it is very difficult, not just long. In retail, no one cares or even try...


    Endgame content? Right now, you are comparing Molten Core (the entry level raid) to what in retail? LFR? Which is the entry level? Again, you can AFK/faceroll/auto-attack and still win. Too early to say, but let's see the % of people completing AQ40 and Naxx, compared to the % of people completing mythic raids.
    I just got owned, as we speak, im now dead, by a pack of 2 mobs in STV.

    1 Healer mob and one motherfoker mob that "nets" you and runs away and starts doing ranged attacks.

    I thought i could AoE the 2 of them.
    The guy NETS me, runs away and starts attacking from afar....the healer then proceeds to heal him.

    I died

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Alempa View Post
    Can we all now agree that Vanilla wasn't harder?
    It was never harder. But it did require much more investment of time & effort, and everything felt more meaningful. You also had to think about certain pulls and fights in the open world that are not even a consideration in retail. Eg. Retail ... go pull a pack of murlocs at level 30 and you'll aoe them down with no risk. Go pull a pack of murlocs at level 30 in classic and you have a good chance of dying if you don't play it out correctly.

    Cheers!

  10. #130
    Angry retailer thread #7813692

    And no, we can't.
    Last edited by Acidz; 2019-09-10 at 04:31 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshana View Post
    And Classic isn't TRULY the Vanilla experience.
    and there we start with the classic isnt vanilla BULLSHIT train
    accepting that vanilla was NEVER hard is just to HARD for this crowd....

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Time...d_of_Warcraft)

    Ummmm, you might want to click on some of the patches there bud.
    Still people say some bullshit like 100% damage etc, complete bullshit. People facerolled MC back then before 1.12 und did afterwards, bad guilds struggled afterwards still

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Alempa View Post
    Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


    But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
    Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


    Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.
    Mythic plus is designed to be progressively more difficult than standard dungeons, that's why they exist and drop a higher item level of loot. Have you even thought this through? It's impossible that LBRS 5 man is harder than a +20 key for any dungeon. However, if you compare a normal mode dungeon to a Classic Dungeon, I would make the argument that the Classic dungeon is harder.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    You must be smoking some serious stuff if you think that deadmines is even remotely close to anythin in bfa, esspecially m10+.

    But of course you think like that. You would be praising a literal pile of shit if it were part of classic.
    Can you try for me one thing? Justifi Classic being easy vs BFA. I am not talking about cherry picking mythic + and mythic raiding but entire game as whole. Including leveing, lfg dungeons, lfr, islands, warfrtons etc. Becouse i dont know why but everytime when anyone defend bfa difficulty they always have to cherry pick mythic difficulty levels in order to counterargument bfa being more difficulty. Like rest of the game do not exist or what? You litaraly say that BFA is more diffiuclty becouse of some 0,1% of content actualy takes some effort but completly ignores fact that rest of 99,9% of entire wow content is boring faceroll.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    I don't expect any highfives, I'm only laughing at the pruned BFA classes that are so bad that even the classic ones seem like a lot of fun. Legion and BFA ruined retail for me.
    Because classic rotations are so complex /s

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Alempa View Post
    Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


    But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
    Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


    Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.
    I'm sorry, have you cleared all of the content yet? No? That's what I thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    me: wow, why am I tired and feel like shit?
    body: coffee is not a meal, drink some water
    body: eat a vegetable.
    body: sleep
    me: I guess we'll never know
    body: oh my god.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by sibut View Post
    I'm sorry, have you cleared all of the content yet? No? That's what I thought.
    I don't need to clear every dungeon and raid in Classic to know the difficulty level. It's widely accepted that the content available right now in Classic really isn't that difficult at all.

  18. #138
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alempa View Post
    Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


    But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
    Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


    Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.
    I was with you till the (well . . . slower). Leveling is slower AND harder. I can pull a TON of stuff on retail and never see my health bar move. It is insane to add this caveat. I feel more accomplished playing classic, but the raids are certainly far easier.


    We get it. you are mad that all of your friends are playing classic. we get it. people are mad that their guilds are crumbling because of classic. we get it. you like retail. Have fun in retail.

    Maybe blizzard will stop making the game to speed to the end for method and company to compete in the raids for muh e-sports.

  19. #139
    Pandaren Monk Wangming's Avatar
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    Come on. Give me a single thing the community has agreed on. We never ever did.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorproc View Post
    Because classic rotations are so complex /s
    Yeah using 2 Frostbolts and then wanding the rest of the time is much more compelling than the rotations on Modern WoW. /s

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathululock View Post
    I was with you till the (well . . . slower). Leveling is slower AND harder. I can pull a TON of stuff on retail and never see my health bar move. It is insane to add this caveat. I feel more accomplished playing classic, but the raids are certainly far easier.
    Using the "you can't pull massive groups in Classic!" is a fallacy. Sure you can't but most people don't even do that in retail. Try and pull a large group of adds as a mage in BfA and watch your character's health bar rapidly deplete. Just because a FEW classes can mass pull in Modern doesn't mean ALL of them can. Leveling in Classic isn't harder unless you MAKE it harder. Otherwise, it's just slower when compared to Modern.

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