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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by phattsao View Post
    I can agree that CLASSIC isn't harder. But this isn't vanilla. Bugged raid EXP. Demo shout bugged. AOE farming every instance. MC clearly undertuned.
    Hopefully they really dive in and fix this before BWL.
    I hope they do something soon.
    Shaman Raid Tank aficionado & expert in off-meta specs: Melee Hunter, Smite Priest, Priest Tank Guide, Rogue Tank and more...

  2. #542
    Classic haters saying that vanilla was never hard are like saying lighting a fire is very easy. Well, not 15k years ago.
    Retail haters saying that current wow is ez are like those "I am IT man" but only knows how to rewrite OS on a laptop.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by c2dholla619 View Post
    are the dung harder then retail = yes
    are the raid harder then retail = no (MC was a easier raid even in vanilla after we had info on it, wait till naxx or something other then mc.
    classic dungeons are not harder then retail, even for new players, they have access to +15 years of guides to help them all the while Retail keeps releasing new content. With each subsequent day classic gets easier and easier. Naxx's difficulty is greatly exaggerated. I'd say AQ and Nax are the moments when it's required for you to read up on your class.
    Shaman Raid Tank aficionado & expert in off-meta specs: Melee Hunter, Smite Priest, Priest Tank Guide, Rogue Tank and more...

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerilo View Post
    Its all ego, nothing is objective in these debates.
    It's not because a number of people act like that, that everyone does. The problem is when actual arguments are lost into the sea of bullshit thrown by people with agenda.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I provided the facts in the part of the quote you conveniently omitted. Guess it says it all.
    This or that specific mechanical difference doesn't add up to overall difficulty -- to the extent where players return to BC and say, "Yeah, threat and mana aren't that hard to figure out now that we all know how to play," just as happened with Vanilla. We can lay aside "nostalgia" and go with "misremembering." I was being discreet.

    I'm banging my favorite Cataclysm-was-bad-for-business drum, but as I said, the revelation of Vanilla puts "We earned in BC" on the witness stand.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    Too bad i cant react with twitch emotes to this, cause this deserves a LUL and LULW spam.
    I did 3 cutting edge with randoms. Nothing special. Ofc it was closer to the end of season. But it was anyway much faster than you can do something similar in classic.

    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    I guess it's time to use the "but only 1% of people do mythic" excuse ... even though there's almost 5k guilds, so around 100k people. Not so insignificant, as it turns out.
    Yeah, I remember all those Mythic Uu'nat pugs spamming LFM in /general. Blizzard should really do something about it, these end bosses are far too easy, nothing like Classic. And just look at all those Azshara kills - 100 out of 120+ is just random pugs. What a disgrace.
    I love when ppl talking exclusively about jobless jerks. Who are below 1% of population. 99% of community dont rly care about them lol. Some ppl have some kind of real life. Job, girlfriends, wifes and even kids. They are simply don't want to waste so much time just to close content faster than this jobless kids. Ppl can raid 2 days per week and close content in time. And spend overall much less time than Methods and others. And do something else. You are jobless kid with good spinal reflex? Well you have all chances to be in top 100 guild like any other persons with similar condition. But in classic this ppl mostly worthless. Because classic not about spinal reflex.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Milfshaked View Post
    You should probably join that sub yourself. Your entire post reeks of insults and strawmans.
    thats very reddit of you to say, thank you

  8. #548
    You might as well say that 3rd grade wasnt harder than 12th grade, because look at how easy it was!
    It wasnt easy for everyone at the time, some people caught on quick and breezed through 3rd grade. Others struggled.
    Same with Vanilla vs later expacs.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    I did 3 cutting edge with randoms. Nothing special. Ofc it was closer to the end of season. But it was anyway much faster than you can do something similar in classic.
    You did "ahead of the curve", at best. Unless said "random" were alts of top guild and they decided to take you with them for some reason - probably a lot of gold. People don't pug mythic end bosses, unless it's some absurd outlier like Xavius. Seeing "random" people pug mythic Mekkatorque would be a laugh. Replace him with Za'qul... or just Ashvane for current tier.
    I love when ppl talking exclusively about jobless jerks. Who are below 1% of population.
    If 100k people are 1% of population, then retail is looking pretty healthy. If you only mean Cutting Edge, then that's 1000+ guilds every tier (except Uu'nat), so again, a decent amount. And according to you, any random pug can do the same, so it's even more people.

    Plus the only jerk here is you, insulting people who very well may be raiding 6 hours a week, which is far from "jobless". And even hardcore raiding schedule usually only involves evenings, which doesn't conflict with usual work time. World best guild are another thing, sure, but that's like 100 people in the world, a miniscule amount that doesn't affect anything.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-09-13 at 06:49 PM.

  10. #550
    most "casuals" play as much, if not more than "hardcore" anyway. They just don't want to/can't play in a organized manner.

    I've raided with plenty of good raid-loggers. Sure, their artifact was never high, but for a guild that's just making CE 3-4 weeks before cutoff raiding 6-8 hours a week that's good enough for me.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Gjin View Post
    Only harder part of retail is mythic raids lold. Obviously classic raids are harder than lfr or normal difficulties in retail. it all depends are you comparing classic raids to mythics or heroic or what. There was no such a thing in vanilla so what is your point?
    Wtf are you talking about? They are below lfr difficulty. They can be cleared with half a raid, and with ppl who are not even max level yet. Seriously you are completely delusional if you honestly believe this.

    This is such a dishonest thing to say - the point is obvious to anyone with no bias - we are comparing like for like - the hardest content in vanilla vs the hardest content in retail. Why are we doing it this way? Because the discussion is about difficulty, and which has the harder content. You are the one bringing up lfr and normal pretending like they are the standard by which "hardest content" should be measured.

    On par with heroic raids? GTFO here with that utter garbage. Like for like - mythic raid vs vanilla 40man content. They didn't start with lfr and then add harder and harder raids. They started with normal, which became heroic, when they added flex and lfr. Those difficulties were added for vanilla raiders who couldn't cut it in the modern game because raiding had evolved far beyond what they could manage.

    Tldr LFR was added for vanilla raiders who couldn't handle the modern games massively increased difficulty, and felt left out. They wanted their easymode / story mode raiding back, and they got that with lfr.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2019-09-13 at 07:51 PM.

  12. #552
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurwi View Post
    You either really bad yourself or you run with really bad groups.
    not at all, i just dont pretend to be a toxic elitist in these forums :3
    Ah, you think there is bias for ally? You merely adopted the faction bias. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see alliance have a nice thing until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but bullshit!

    "My name is Legion: for we are many." - Mark 5:9
    My characters :3

  13. #553
    Classic is an extremely casual game that imo is best enjoyed in a chill way chatting with your party. I've noticed there's a couple of people (more at max level) that seem extremely tryhard about it despite that fact (from experience its mostly pserver people) these will actively try to backseat game you at times trying to dictate how you play or what to roll on even though most of the time they're actually inferior players. Ignore those players and enjoy vanilla and the low difficulty isn't an issue but probably a boon to the social experience.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    You seriously think that people having a few more stats on their gear is a larger contribution than bugged dungeons causing people to level way faster?

    Fuckin' lulz m8

    good bait, 10/10 got me to reply
    Can you read yet? I said all of those things were contributors... YIKES.

    Also TIL spell casters having 300% more Spellpower = "few more stats on gear"

  15. #555
    Vanilla was never hard from a complexity/execution standpoint. The hurdles in vanilla were accessibility and experience/knowledge. The knowledge bit we have now, and that can't be unlearned, but the accessibility issues, while maybe being a conventionally bad choice as far as game design goes, gives the world a much larger, epic, and immersive feel.

  16. #556
    I don't think people really found it difficult it was more probably that it was:
    -time consuming
    -bad computers
    -slow internet
    -new to this type of MMO
    -not knowledgeable enough about classes
    -spamming any button to do damage
    -not prioritizing or optimizing compositions for groups
    -bad CC

    Time wins all though, getting good in classic required a lot of time, as we all remember or can see!

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Vanilla was never hard from a complexity/execution standpoint. The hurdles in vanilla were accessibility and experience/knowledge. The knowledge bit we have now, and that can't be unlearned, but the accessibility issues, while maybe being a conventionally bad choice as far as game design goes, gives the world a much larger, epic, and immersive feel.
    could not have said it better
    Shaman Raid Tank aficionado & expert in off-meta specs: Melee Hunter, Smite Priest, Priest Tank Guide, Rogue Tank and more...

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Vanilla was never hard from a complexity/execution standpoint. The hurdles in vanilla were accessibility and experience/knowledge. The knowledge bit we have now, and that can't be unlearned, but the accessibility issues, while maybe being a conventionally bad choice as far as game design goes, gives the world a much larger, epic, and immersive feel.
    I find the conclusion weird.
    "it's bad design that makes the game better"
    I'd say if it makes the game better... it's actually good design, just not the one being in fashion today ?

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