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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    Yes. I believe he would. Though, in Legion, we would obliterate him no-diff. The problem with the Heart is that, while it is empowered by the World Soul of Azeroth, the Heart itself is rather weak, and the World Soul of Azeroth is especially weak, due to being literally negged by Sargeras during the whole Antorus BS, as well as the whole N'zoth and Faction War situation post-Legion. And also, the Heart itself doesn't give all that much of a boost. All it does is just absorb Azerite so that it could heal the Planet, and therefore the world soul inside of it. That's not really a feat, considering how, in Legion, the players were doing cosmic level'd attacks and all that shit prior to even 7.2.
    That is some otherworldly reach.

    I'm going to go ahead and assume that this is just your opinion because you provide nothing that backs your statements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    "Empowered by the aspects" Who lost almost all of their prime abilities after the Cataclysm. Some of our Artifacts were empowered by even stronger sources anyway prior to us wielding them.

    "Empowered by the power of our World's Titan" A dying Titan who is still in a fetus state. The Titan itself is likely less developed than Argus himself atm (And Argus got empowered by Sargeras and all so that he could gain actual Titan status against us).

    "The Heart also freed an Old God" Something any of our Artifacts could've done had the Naga beaten us in Azsuna. The Tidestone itself also could've freed N'zoth's Prison and sundered the world once more with ease.

    Also, the "Mini Demon Soul" thing doesn't mean shit anymore, considering we've dabbled in powers much greater than even that.

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    Just because you can do it in the game, that doesn't mean you can do it in the lore. There's a reason why the game does what it does.
    May you, at the very least, provide any MODICUM of evidence backing those ridiculous statements?

    What proof do you have that the tide stone could shatter an old god’s prison?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post
    That is some otherworldly reach.

    I'm going to go ahead and assume that this is just your opinion because you provide nothing that backs your statements.
    It's also directly contradicted by what Magni tells you when you get it. It explicitly feeds back power to us to make us more capable at the task.


    And the Tidestone obviously couldn't have shattered N'zoth's prison, or Azshara wouldn't have needed us. The entirety of Nazjatar and Eternal Palace would have been completely pointless.
    Last edited by huth; 2019-09-13 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #63
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    The fact that it was going to cause a sunder over Azeroth's oceans and make the Naga rise again, along with possibly N'zoth himself. All of which while not even near the Prison, showcasing the pure power of the Tidestone.

    "I'm going to go ahead and assume that this is just your opinion because you provide nothing that backs your statements."

    Except almost every piece of evidence I have is from Legion. Why do you think the players now are stronger than when we fought guys like Kil'jaeden, Argus the Unmaker, and co? All of which scale above Azshara, and N'zoth, btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's also directly contradicted by what Magni tells you when you get it. It explicitly feeds back power to us to make us more capable at the task.
    Just because it feeds you power, that doesn't mean you're much stronger than before. It's a small boost, but it graduately increases as your gain more Azerite power, and so forth. It's still not beyond the Artifacts.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    Just because it feeds you power, that doesn't mean you're much stronger than before. It's a small boost, but it graduately increases as your gain more Azerite power, and so forth. It's still not beyond the Artifacts.
    Assertion, assumption. No evidence. Your claim that it doesn't do anything but channel azerite to Azeroth is explicitly contradicted by somebody who most definitely would know.

    And we couldn't manage Argus with the Artifacts. The Pantheon had to lend us their help, or we'd been chanceless.

    Whether Azshara or KJ is stronger when we encounter them is unknown, but Azshara has the definite advantage of being able to prepare the battlefield and decide when the encounter happens.
    Last edited by huth; 2019-09-13 at 01:19 PM.

  5. #65
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Assertion, assumption. No evidence. Your claim that it doesn't do anything but channel azerite to Azeroth is explicitly contradicted by somebody who most definitely would know.

    And we couldn't manage Argus with the Artifacts. The Pantheon had to lend us their help, or we'd been chanceless.

    Whether Azshara or KJ is stronger when we encounter them is unknown, but Azshara has the definite advantage of being able to prepare the battlefield and decide when the encounter happens.
    Read what I said. I said that the Azerite lends power to the Heart, which in turn provides enough energy to help heal Azeroth in general.

    And this whole "We couldn't manage Argus with the Artifacts" is, while true, kinda irrelevant considering, with the Artifacts alone, we beat down Aggramar's Avatar and all.

    And KJ can do the same thing with "battlefield advantages". She has NOTHING against him.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    Read what I said. I said that the Azerite lends power to the Heart, which in turn provides enough energy to help heal Azeroth in general.

    And this whole "We couldn't manage Argus with the Artifacts" is, while true, kinda irrelevant considering, with the Artifacts alone, we beat down Aggramar's Avatar and all.

    And KJ can do the same thing with "battlefield advantages". She has NOTHING against him.
    Please provide context for the Aggramar statement. How does beating a lowly avatar make our inability to topple a titan with artifacts irrelevant?

    It was never implied nor cited that KJ intended for us to engage him on his own ship in the Twisting Nether. Him having a mini-army prepared for that seemed more like a last resort.

    Azshara on the other hand, intended for us to overwhelm her to use the heart of Azeroth to unlock Nzoth’s prison.

    If the artifacts are massively more powerful than the heart then why didn't Azshara have us shatter the prison with those?

    That question is off-topic but I think it's good food for thought.

  7. #67
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post
    Please provide context for the Aggramar statement. How does beating a lowly avatar make our inability to topple a titan with artifacts irrelevant?

    It was never implied nor cited that KJ intended for us to engage him on his own ship in the Twisting Nether. Him having a mini-army prepared for that seemed more like a last resort.

    Azshara on the other hand, intended for us to overwhelm her to use the heart of Azeroth to unlock Nzoth’s prison.

    If the artifacts are massively more powerful than the heart then why didn't Azshara have us shatter the prison with those?

    That question is off-topic but I think it's good food for thought.
    Aggramar's Avatar is part of Sargeras' Dark Pantheon, and while weaker than his FP self, it is possible that his current power should extend far beyond Sargeras' Avatar's, due to the fact that Sargeras would want his "Dark Pantheon" to be an unstoppable force. Also note that Argus himself was being empowered and helped out by Sargeras during the entire fight as well. Hell, while Argus was manifesting, he started off as all muscle and shit like that, and Sargeras has to give him Armor, some spikes, a blue color tint that should represent skin, as well as a Helmet to give him proper intelligence and all, considering Argus himself doesn't even have a functioning brain, a nose, nor ears for that matter. Sargeras was literally empowering Argus to the point as to where he literally became the Death Titan, and even became strong enough to possess Sargeras' own abilities (Such as Sargeras' Rage, Sargeras' Fear, Sentence of Sargeras. etc). All of this while the Pantheon themselves (And quite possibly the Seat itself) were empowering us to Argus' level. Even without the buffs, I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that we were at levels far beyond even the Avatar of Sargeras himself.

    With Kil'jaeden, he certainly planned us to attack him, which was why he kept the portal from the Eye of Aman'thul open, had an entire army ready for us prior to us teleporting there, was basically waiting for Velen to pop in and attack him, and was slowly traveling to Argus so that we could literally get annihilated there. He also knew damn well that the mortals were going to do throughout 7.2, which was why we literally saw the 7.2 Cinematic, because KJ saw firsthand the mortals doing shit. So, he knew that they'd invade the ToS sometime soon, hence why we made all those preparations, as well as a small army for his ship in case the Mortals do press on.

    And to add insult to injury, the "sea" won't mean shit to the Legion anyway, considering the Legion has been to many water worlds during their crusade. The Illidan novel talks about this whole-heartedly.

    "Azshara on the other hand, intended for us to overwhelm her to use the heart of Azeroth to unlock Nzoth’s prison" She only intended for us to use the Heart to unlock N'zoth's prison. She also thought she could dismantle us with ease. She NEVER intended for us to overwhelm her. I don't know why you think this.

    "If the artifacts are massively more powerful than the heart then why didn't Azshara have us shatter the prison with those?"

    Because A. There was a Legion invasion going on, so of course she wouldn't try shit at that moment.

    B. A Faction war is happening, and you know how the Old Gods are with those...

    C. The Heart of Azeroth is basically Azeroth's Power mixed with Azerite. And knowing N'zoth, and how Old Gods work, absorbing shit from a Titan is just enough to both break a Titan prison, as well as give him a higher chance of fully corrupting Azeroth herself.

    And D. She needed the Tidestone of Golganneth first. Which was why you saw them, as well as her Wrath, try to steal it during the whole Azsuna questline. You can also see that she stole it from the ToS during the whole Nazjatar campaign.

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