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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    One thing is clear- you probably played vanilla, probably even thought you where right because there where plenty of bad players that even went with the "give tank gear so they can survive" statement hell, some lower end guilds still do that. But it's completely false, there is a reason funneling gear to the MT died at the exact same time threat died as a mechanic in the game. At least among top guilds.

    A tank didn't need all the gear to survive a hit from a boss in vanilla, being as geared as the average raid member is more then enough. They needed that gear to hold threat and increase total raid DPS as a result.
    Wrong. There's a reason tanks have separate threat gear and survival gear - to optimize for your current setup. You also don't give your tank Lionheart Helm first, despite it being the best helmet for threat. Why? Survival. Many T2 pieces are worse for threat than T1 pieces - do tanks pass on those? Of course not. Why? Survival.

  2. #42
    I never played Vanilla but this discussion about tnak threat vs survivability is pretty enlightening and cool to see. Good job guys

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    At least warriors CAN tank in vanilla lol. Druid and pally were garbage (other than as mediocre heals/buff whores) and DK/Monk/DH don't exist.
    I've been tanking every dungeon as a bear. Granted I'm only 32 so far but it's been great.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    At least warriors CAN tank in vanilla lol. Druid and pally were garbage (other than as mediocre heals/buff whores) and DK/Monk/DH don't exist.
    bears are fine, seriously.

  5. #45
    I remember me and the other rogues having little contest about who could push their DPS the highest without pulling aggro and getting gibbed.

    I mean feint was pretty much part of the DPS rotation and Vanish wasn't used just to get extra ambushes in but also to dump aggro. Hunters had to FD on occasion as well to reset themselves on the aggro list.

    Classic was all about every single class working together to manage aggro.

    "Wait three sunders before dpsing the boss" was sage advice.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by huehuehue View Post
    Welp, there’s gonna be a lot of dead mages as they adjust to this.


    Rip speedclearing dungeons for xp?
    Except half the dungeons i've been farming we run triple mage lock priest. Don't need a tank :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Chaos View Post
    Does this mean that DPS classes other than mages might exist again!?
    Idk, seems like more incentive to continue spamming in 4 caster groups and AOEing everything :P

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    At least warriors CAN tank in vanilla lol. Druid and pally were garbage (other than as mediocre heals/buff whores) and DK/Monk/DH don't exist.
    The only reason paladins and bears weren't seen as main tanks is that they can't be uncrittable to a raid boss (+3 levels). It's not conducive to a successful raid if more than half of a tank's health gets taken on a single melee hit. Paladins and bears can tank everything else in the game, including raid trash, just fine.


    addons
    weakauras
    Lua Wall of Shame
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    this thread is a waste of internet

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    The only reason paladins and bears weren't seen as main tanks is that they can't be uncrittable to a raid boss (+3 levels). It's not conducive to a successful raid if more than half of a tank's health gets taken on a single melee hit. Paladins and bears can tank everything else in the game, including raid trash, just fine.
    For Pallys it's less about getting uncritable (Cause they can), it's that they run out of mana eventually.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    Happy they fixed this as warriors were taking over the niche that protection paladins filled and they were actually doing a better job at it as well making protection paladins totally irrelevant.
    pallies are inherently irrelevant as theyre alliance only - which is completely irrelevant

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    I was wondering why demo shout is so good because I played warri in classic and BC and it was garbage.
    This was identified like 10 days ago as well on a Warrior Discord.

    soo blatant.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  11. #51
    I was tanking Maraudon wormpacks leading to the tinker with spamming demoshout yesterday and i was wondering if this is really intended to keep agro from aoeing mages, it was just stupid lol.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    You're wrong. Go look at Vanilla WoW raid gear. Gear funneling to tanks existed since the start, but tank gear didn't start getting threat stats until Naxx. Gear funneling to tanks died off long after threat being an issue did btw. Why do you think things like Styleen's were so valued instead of more offensive options? I don't think I'm right, I know I'm right. The DPS increase for a tank between tiers was minimal, the damage reduction was massive. Nobody in Vanilla funneled gear to their tanks because it increased threat (aside from TF)
    As a former raidleader from MC to Naxx in Classic, I can confirm. We equipped the tanks first especially because of survival, not DPS or threat (tanks did shitty dps back then anyway).

  13. #53
    Yes, make it even harder to tank! *facepalm*
    The whole threat and tank mechanic in classic wow is bullshit. Poor threat generation and no AOE abilities.

  14. #54
    Well, i guess most aoe spamming mages group with their pocket warrior / bear tank are already 60. For the others: too late for the party.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by jk1895 View Post
    Yes, make it even harder to tank! *facepalm*
    The whole threat and tank mechanic in classic wow is bullshit. Poor threat generation and no AOE abilities.
    aoe tanking while a mage goes balls deep spaming max rank arcane explosion was never a thing in classic, shout tanking was a thing in classic but mostly to keep agro from healer and only for the first seconds of a pull or for incoming extra adds(patrols,etc), then you go cleaving and tab sundering, shield slamming and revenge throught the pull keeping the focus at your priority(mostly using SS at cd on focus while tab targetting the rest), and keeping demo shout active to reduce dmg, also if you can stance dance after securing aggro to further reduce dmg taken switching to battle stance and do a thunder clap, then switching back to defensive, u can go to berseker to use berseker rage to increase your rage gen

    edit: and that was the standard aoe tanking of warrior up to wotlk when they buffed thunder clap (only usable in battle stance in vanilla, then in BC was usable on defensive but its aggro was shit), shit that is still the way of aoe tanking on skittish when avatar is on cd
    Last edited by azkhane; 2019-09-12 at 07:20 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Oh my deer sweet child, I'm going to guess you are one of the players on live that don't understand why skittish exists either right?
    Why does skittish exist? I mean sure, if a geared warrior jumps in with bladestorm and your AoE spells are on CD, it makes a difference. Live and skittish aren't the best example.

    Back in the day threat was one of the few metrics you could identify a 'good' tank by. If (s)he held threat, the tank was good. If not, dpses and healers were mowed down. As such a tank, it made you feel good, people appreciated you. But here's the thing, threat was supposed to be a mechanic for all the party members, not just the tank. In reality, you ended up tanking both the mobs AND your party, watching out for threat could be taxing - especially with dpses with no self preservation ignoring your marks and attacking randomly. So tanking could end up not being fun - I actually remember raging quite a lot back in the day - "Look at that rogue going for the one ranged target that's not brought to the group yet etc etc".

    So threat in general, while I found it quite fun to manage (even with the raging), was not as fun for quite a lot of people who thought they wanted to tank (see the harsh drop in tanks at the start of Cata when threat was a thing again). Losing aggro and getting people killed would most likely end up with people bitching and telling you you're a bad tank, dpses were hardly ever called out.

    Threat could have been a fun thing, but time has proven that your role being dependent on random people is a recipe for disaster and should be avoided. Skittish is a thing now ONLY because M+ are "hand made" groups of supposedly coordinated people who aren't totally clueless. And exactly because of that, skittish is kinda irrelevant.

  17. #57
    Give me thunder clap in defensive stance and I'm golden.
    .......
    I mean "I'm ok", not "I'm a hack writer".

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    The only reason paladins and bears weren't seen as main tanks is that they can't be uncrittable to a raid boss (+3 levels). It's not conducive to a successful raid if more than half of a tank's health gets taken on a single melee hit. Paladins and bears can tank everything else in the game, including raid trash, just fine.
    Bears can also main tank every raid boss in vanilla (incl. all of naxx) and their BiS gear is a combination of AQ offset and leveling gear. Their health pools and armor are so massive vs warriors that the crits aren't really an issue + some bosses (like Patchwerk) cannot crit.

  19. #59
    Funny how Classic still needs fixes, you would think all of that had been fixed 15 years ago.

  20. #60
    Damn, this is actually one of the first "nerfs" (if you can call this a nerf) that affect me since I started playing WoW more than 10 years ago.

    Been tanking on classic on my warrior and been using Demo Shout to build agro, not bc I've read about it on guides (because I didn't) but because I personally saw that using Demo Shout was better than to use Battle Shout to get agro. Guess now I'll be back to spam sunder armor on every mob, woot!

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