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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    Absolutely not. The point is to preserve the story / world exactly as it was.
    Notice the "+" sign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  2. #62
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnluckyAmateur View Post
    Notice the "+" sign.
    I mean it's the point of this thread, if that's what you mean.

    Classic+ isn't a real thing that exists though.
    FORTNITE
    Fite me! ^..^

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer therealstegblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briselody View Post
    Well, WoD introduced alternate realities so the possibility of making two different lore canons is now, in fact, canon.
    Nope. AU Draenor and the alternate realities are part of the same canon, the story of Warcraft that takes place in Warcraft and World of Warcraft. A story having alternate realities =/= a story having multiple canons, just multi-timelines/realities, but they are all the same canon story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonly View Post
    This is where everyone gets everything wrong about what `Classic+` would be. You do not need to have two different lore canons to have a Classic+, I guess people don't understand the following:
    No, the one who doesn't understand the situation is you. If they make their own story in Classic+, unless it somehow followed the exact same story as the main canon (but did so at level 60, like they release Outlands but basically make it a new level 60 zone with some new raids in it or something), then there will be two different versions of the story: or two canons.

    Old School Runescape is an entirely different canon from Runescape 3. They're two different universes.

    So again, I would imagine some asshole suit in a senior director position of some kind would shoot any Classic+ ideas down to maintain brand recognition of a single canon.
    i am not the real stegblob. My blog where I review books and crap.

  4. #64
    I am Murloc! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Nope. AU Draenor and the alternate realities are part of the same canon, the story of Warcraft that takes place in Warcraft and World of Warcraft. A story having alternate realities =/= a story having multiple canons, just multi-timelines/realities, but they are all the same canon story.
    Your post is making me think of Avengers: Endgame and the MCU post Endgame... which is headache-inducing. That's why time travel and alternate universes is so horrible to introduce when the writers don't know how to do it. The only one to do it well to my knowledge was James Cameron with T1 and 2. Until Hollywood fucked it up of course with T3 and onwards.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    I mean it's the point of this thread, if that's what you mean.

    Classic+ isn't a real thing that exists though.
    And the entire thread is dedicated to the hypothetical idea of what it could be. What's your point here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Blizzard won't develop 2 different versions of WoW next to each other. So the best you can get is TBC re-release, WotLK re-release and I guess people don't care from that point.
    The only reason they could do Classic in the first place was because it was just technical stuff: they needed to re-create something they already done once. No new creative direction was required.
    Yeah i agree, and that is my point.....we do not know what they are going to do next ( or if something at all). yes vanilla could be fun for a year...year and a half...but then?
    BFA - Barf for Alliance
    Horde you sad or angry that your faction is a bunch of mass murdering, cowards , without honor bad guys??
    The alliance is there for you

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Yeah i agree, and that is my point.....we do not know what they are going to do next ( or if something at all). yes vanilla could be fun for a year...year and a half...but then?
    This entirely depends on how Classic's life cycle will work out.

    They will have the numbers to see when Classic "dies" (and by dies I mean only the most dedicated play) and whether re-releasing was worth the developement costs.
    If it is, then they will probably do a TBC re-release. Then the cycle repeats.

    If Classic player numbers really go to the shitter in a year I would say they just release the last Classic content (Naxx), and call it a day, it will be there to play, then keep working on expac9 and expac10.

    This seems like the realistic, non-fanfic approach a reasonable person would make.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaundiced View Post
    Why blood elves and not high elves... cmon.
    They're called blood elves by the end of WC3.

    I'm only iffy about some of these ideas because they involve directly retconning elements of live. I don't want more alternate timelines to keep track of.

    dungeons involving existing threats, using primarily existing assets, though, sound totally feasible and interesting.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    This entirely depends on how Classic's life cycle will work out.

    They will have the numbers to see when Classic "dies" (and by dies I mean only the most dedicated play) and whether re-releasing was worth the developement costs.
    If it is, then they will probably do a TBC re-release. Then the cycle repeats.

    If Classic player numbers really go to the shitter in a year I would say they just release the last Classic content (Naxx), and call it a day, it will be there to play, then keep working on expac9 and expac10.

    This seems like the realistic, non-fanfic approach a reasonable person would make.
    Yeah, it dies when everyone has done everything...with the content in classics + guides to get everything it will take less time.

    yup i agree with you.

    Was just stating the most all options ( not most likely of options).
    BFA - Barf for Alliance
    Horde you sad or angry that your faction is a bunch of mass murdering, cowards , without honor bad guys??
    The alliance is there for you

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoadbearer View Post
    Been a while since I was here. Haven't cared much about the story since MoP, but with the idea of Classic+ floating around, it's got me speculating about potential things they could do with a new story timeline, new quests, some dungeons, raids, etc.

    At the moment, my ideas are all about the Eastern Kingdoms, so keep that in mind.

    Races

    Forest Trolls (Horde) - Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Shaman, Priest, Druid (using those Amani loa troll boss models as their animal forms, or something similar)

    Blood Elves (Alliance) - Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Priest, Warlock, Mage


    Raids

    Karazhan, Karazhan Crypts, Grim Batol, Alterac raid against Syndicate working w/ Shadow Council


    Dungeons

    Red Caverns (vs. Scarlets & Scourge), mentioned on the plaque for Dorgar Stoenbrow in Scarlet Monastery, with an undead version of him as a Scourge boss.

    Stormwind Sewers (vs. Shadow Council & Syndicate, or Scourge cultists, or Black Dragonflight cultists working for Onyxia)

    Deatholme Hold (vs. Scourge base inside mountain from Deatholme)


    Zones

    Dragon Isles

    Hyjal

    Eversong Woods (1-10 for Blood Elves)

    Amani Foothills (1-10 for Forest Trolls) to the east of Zul'Aman

    Ghostlands (10-20 for Blood Elves & Forest Trolls)

    Amani Woodlands (40-50) to the southeast of Zul'Aman, heavy Scourge presence with conflict between elves & trolls.

    Northeron (50-60 Hostile Western Scarlet-controlled coastal & mountainous region linking Hearthglen to Stratholme, minor high elf presence in an area called Greenwood)

    Zul'Dare Isle (something for Forest Trolls)



    Story

    Important Notes to Remember


    1. This scenario focuses on keeping the story about Old World Azeroth, meaning the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor (though I haven't thought of anything for the latter just yet.) The main narrative is not going to just up and move to some random islands for no reason, and I'm trying to keep from having a main overarching narrative, apart from Horde vs. Alliance in various forms. I want there to be individual threats in individual areas. I don't want some tauren in Mulgore to be like "Oh no, I must go and defeat Kel'thuzad!" His concern is Mulgore, so he should be fighting Quilboar and Centaur, and any new threat I think of once I start writing about Kalimdor and southern Eastern Kingdoms.

    2. Certain things are changed, but may be changed back if they conflict with lore that existed prior to Blizzard releasing the Burning Crusade. Galen Trollbane wasn't retroactively made to have been a selfish evil prince murdering his dad until Legion, giving the Alliance a convenient excuse for not having helped Stromgarde in any significant way at all in all those years while simultaneously taking advantage of any resources they got from Arathi Basin. Stuff like that may not be kept intact, so Galen may not have murdered his dad in this new story, and other things like that.

    3. Canonically, Onyxia wasn't killed until shortly before WotLK by Varian, so she was still manipulating Stormwind during the Burning Crusade time period. Her motivation is to cripple Stormwind to make it easier for the Dark Horde serving she and her brother to destroy it.

    4. Arator never fit into the story set forth by the timeline present in the two novels covering Warcraft 2 and what purpose does his character even serve anyway? He will not exist in this timeline.

    5. Illidan will take advantage of any opportunity to get rid of Arthas to get Kil'jaeden off his back while he builds up his forces. Kael'thas would prefer the Sons of Lothar be gone so he can attack Shattrath for more Naaru to feed his people without having to kill them as well, tarnishing his reputation among the Sunfury if Alleria were to oppose this.

    6. Tirion's quest chain did take place, leaving Taelan dead, Tirion gets his new Silver Hand order, and taking into account the timeline of events in the Ashbringer comic, this would mean Renault Mograine is dead as well. Judging by Scarlet Crusade citizens dialogue in the WotLK Death Knight intro area, saying how Naxxramas was gone but now Acherus had replaced it, Naxxramas will still be running in full swing in this part of the story, with Kel'thuzad's phylactery being preserved explaining how he could keep coming back and restoring his minions, leaving the Plaguelands campaign with a big bad to work against. Saidan Dathrohan has been discovered to be Balnazzar in disguise and has been dispatched by adventurers working for the Argent Dawn, leaving General Abbendis as the new Grand Crusader.

    7. Abbendis seemed more moderate than the rest of the Crusade's leadership, being willing to work with the Argent Dawn who the rest saw as traitors. I'm thinking the crusade in the Eastern Plaguelands are more moderate because of her influence, and the ones in Tirisfal Glades and the Western Plaguelands are far more extreme, but they're more of a Horde/Scourge threat due to their location. We'll see if there's any reasoning with them from Abbendis.


    Events

    In this scenario, Kael'thas did not act with hostility toward anyone from the Alliance expedition, gave the Sons of Lothar a brief rundown of events from the Third War, invited Alleria and the rest of the High Elves among them to join his Sunfury in the Illidari, but they politely refused, electing instead to remain with Alleria who wanted to stay with Turalyon. They did tell him that they would try to find a way back to Azeroth, and once they did, they would go to aid those elves still in Quel'thalas. Kael'thas and Illidan are fine with this because it will hamper the Scourge and Arthas, as both hate him, and it wouldn't hurt to be able to take credit for enabling the group that would eventually defeat Arthas if Kil'jaeden ever came back to check on Illidan's progress. Kael'thas uses some water from his vial of water from the Well of Eternity Illidan gave him to open the Dark Portal, using the rest to secretly send Rommath directly to Silvermoon with the naaru M'uru for the blood elves to feed upon. He is unlikely to join the Legion in this timeline.

    The Dark Portal opens briefly with the Sons of Lothar pouring out into Azeroth before the portal closes. The demons we were fighting in the pre-BC event equivalent were being driven through to Azeroth by the Sons of Lothar's advance to escape home.

    Their first stop is in Nethergarde Keep where they are caught up on recent history they didn't know from Kael'thas from the period between the Third War and Burning Crusade time. They go to Stormwind where they begin making plans for what they're going to do to help Azeroth.

    Turalyon - Turalyon is primarily concerned with the human survivors of Lordaeron and combating the threat of the Scourge and Forsaken. At this point, the Scarlet Crusade are still thought to be allies of the Alliance, so he takes many paladins from Stormwind's chapter of the Silver Hand and any volunteers from the Sons of Lothar to Lordaeron. Their destination is Tyr's Hand where they meet General Brigitte Abbendis, the more moderate Scarlet leader, who is now Grand Crusader after Saidan was revealed to be Balnazzar and was killed. They are concerned by the zeal presented by the average crusader, but many including Turalyon feel the same way on some level, wanting to save their home they weren't there to protect during the Third War, so it doesn't bother them too much. Turalyon leads this group of Alliance to support the Crusade, focusing more on them than the Argent Dawn, as the latter are so much weaker and have Horde members among them, something Turalyon doesn't yet understand very well, and is unlikely to ever, being an Alliance hero. Through Abbendis, Turalyon is in contact with the Argent Dawn, including Tirion, and considers them allies as well, but more in the way that they're aware of each other's movements and hope they hold their territories against the Scourge. They do not merge groups. The standard eastern Scarlet Crusader distrusts non-humans, but Abbendis keeps them in check and doesn't mind dwarves, gnomes, or the elves in the Sons of Lothar like Alleria. She does distrust other elves in Quel'thalas, not forgetting how they were deserters to the Alliance in the past. She also distrusts night elves, not knowing much about them at all, and naturally hates all Horde races.

    Alleria - Alleria is concerned with her homeland and goes along with Turalyon to Lordaeron, leading a group of her scouts she had in the Sons of Lothar into Quel'thalas with some surviving elves who'd fled to Stormwind as guides. At this point, Sylvanas' status as queen of the Forsaken is more rumor than anything else as far as the Alliance are concerned, and she simply considers her dead. She meets the Blood Elves led by Lor'themar and is caught up on their current situation as Rommath's journey was a one-way trip with no chance for communication back. She learns of their surviving and fighting small pockets of Scourge left behind by Arthas, while dealing with their magical addiction, recently somewhat alleviated by a Naaru transported there by Kael'thas at the same time the Sons of Lothar got through the Dark Portal. Alleria's primary goal is to officially reintroduce the Blood Elves back into the Alliance. They are only able to secure a tenuous agreement at this point, on the condition proposed by Onyxia in disguise as Lady Katrana Prestor that the elves provide any support they can for the campaign in the Plaguelands, with the idea that once the Plaguelands are more secure, forces will be sent back to Quel'thalas to aid the elves. Alleria doesn't like this and somewhat resents Turalyon's lack of pushback to Lady Prestor's condition. She also harbors some negative feelings toward Dalaran, after hearing Kael'thas' account of events in Outland. She convinces the elves living in banishment at Quel'lithien lodge to move south to the safety of Quel'Danil lodge in the Hinterlands when she can't convince them to join the Alliance campaign.

    Kurdran - Once Kurdran and his Wildhammers are through with their debriefing in Stormwind and Ironforge, they return to Aerie Peak, glad that the Scourge hadn't tainted the Hinterlands. Happy to be reunited with their clan, they set about helping in any way they can. Dorgar Stoenbrow (dwarf statue in Herod's room) was a Bronzebeard friend of the Wildhammers who had enlisted their aid in supplying the Red Caverns in Alterac, a Scarlet Crusade base for storing resources. Believing him dead, they had cut ties with the Crusade, but with Kurdran's influence, the Wildhammers help the Plaguelands campaign, primarily the Alliance portion led by Turalyon, also resulting in the Crusade again having access to gryphons like Stormwind does. At this time, the Witherbark Trolls from the surrounding smaller troll villages are keeping a close eye on the Wildhammers and High Elves, after both received a significant increase to their numbers from the Sons of Lothar and Quel'lithien elves.

    Danath - Danath wants to help Turalyon and the others in Lordaeron, but wants even more to save Stromgarde. In his eyes, Lordaeron is gone, and Turalyon is merely avenging it just like the Scarlet Crusade. In Danath's case, Stromgarde is still around, just suffering from threats like the Witherbark Trolls, the Boulderfist Ogres, and the Syndicate. After leading the Alliance to attack Alterac City in the past, he holds extra hatred for these remnants causing problems for his kingdom. Taking leadership from Galen who's been running the kingdom into the ground ever since Thoras died (whether or not Galen's involvement revealed in Legion will be present here is unknown), Danath drives the ogres, trolls, and Syndicate out of the city. With support from Stormwind and Ironforge, Danath begins to gain the upper hand against all three enemies in Arathi, which drives the Witherbark in their village to call upon the Witherbark and Vilebranch in the Hinterlands to help them. The Syndicate retreat into Hillsbrad and Alterac where they work with the Argus Wake to serve the Shadow Council. Danath, hating orcs, doesn't tolerate the presence of the Horde in Arathi and launches several attacks against Hammerfall, provoking the Horde to react.

    Khadgar - Naturally, Khadgar goes to Dalaran where he assists them in rebuilding their city beneath the dome, eventually becoming a member of the Council of Six. They do not bring down the bubble to help the Alliance at this time. He'll most definitely be involved in Kharazan investigations with The Eye faction equivalent from Burning Crusade.

    Reacting to Stromgarde's attacks on the village in Arathi, the Witherbark in the Hinterlands attack the elves at Quel'Danil and dwarves at Aerie Peak. This in turn provokes Alliance attacks on the Witherbark villages and even Vilebranch-held tiered city of Jintha'Alor. Sending runners to Zul'Aman, the Vilebranch with the Witherbark as their underlings get the support of Zul'jin and the Amani tribe. Now for simplicity's sake, all three tribes will be referred to as Forest Trolls. Their primary targets are the elves in Quel'thalas, and the elves and dwarves in the Hinterlands. They are leery of attacking the Alliance campaign in the Plaguelands because their numbers are so huge there with the Scarlet Crusade on their side, but the Revantusk tribe send an ambassador to Jintha'Alor. The Revantusk tell them they had received orders from Thrall to help the Horde at Hammerfall however they could while he attempted to use diplomacy to end the conflict. Excited by the prospect of helping the Horde by bringing in such a sizable faction, the Revantusk tell the other forest trolls that if they saved Hammerfall, they could possibly gain the support of the entire Horde against the Alliance.

    Witherbark Village is reinforced and joins the fight against Stromgarde alongside Hammerfall. Zul'jin rises as de facto leader of the forest troll tribes, with the hierarchy being the Amani on top, the Vilebranch second, and the Witherbark, Shadowpine, and Mossflayer tribes sharing the bottom of the ladder. Hammerfall is saved and Thrall sends more Horde support to Arathi, making the Horde and Alliance equally matched there. The Syndicate manipulates the Boulderfist Ogres into attacking both sides, providing a mutual enemy for Alliance and Horde adventurers to fight when not fighting each other.

    In the Hinterlands, the Alliance responds to the Forest Trolls' joining of the Horde by attacking their holdings.

    Thrall's diplomacy seems to be failing. He doesn't officially accept the forest trolls into the Horde because that would be like condoning their attacks in the Hinterlands and their enjoyment of attacking Stromgarde and Quel'thalas, but many of the Darkspear hate the Alliance and venerate Zul'jin as a troll hero and independently go to assist them in the Eastern Kingdoms, bringing Orcs, Tauren, and Forsaken with them. Forest Troll players are canonically good faith gestures from their tribes to assist the Horde elsewhere in Azeroth to generate more support for themselves among the Horde and its leadership.


    Let me know any other ideas you have for other existing zones, new zones, dungeons, raids, etc.
    Thrall showed hatred towards forest trolls in warcraft 3 so no.

    Also with kirin tor, Ironforge, Gnomeregan and Stormwind continuing to support garithos in lordaeron after what he tried to do to belfs it would show them approving his actions and making blood elf alliance with Kael impossible and how kael would descripe the events of TFT alleria would antagonised alot of the alliance.
    Last edited by Terongor; 2019-09-15 at 02:27 PM.

  11. #71
    Stood in the Fire Hekazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymil View Post
    This is ridiculous. That was not a point of Classic launch.

    You classic lovers are losing your mind and keep proving day after day that Classic project was a failure at its core. You say you wanted the vanilla experience, but in reality you want something else.

    Infracted.
    -snip-
    Edit: Do not discuss moderation.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2019-09-15 at 04:44 PM.
    They hate the grind, but they demand classic

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